Favorite Trick that uses the Elmsley Count

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.

Postby steve » 12/21/01 05:32 PM

Hello all- I posted this on another site some time ago and got a little feedback, but not as much as I would have hoped. I'm looking to establish a long list of Elmsley count tricks. Here's some to get things started :

Elmsley's 4 Card Trick2)
New Four Card Trick (Elmsley)
Marked (Derick Dingle)
Alien Invasion (Danny Archer)
Alien Autopsy (don't know who it's by)
NFW (Gary Freed)
Capitulating Cards (Jim Swain)
Paradigm Shift (Gerry Griffin)
Twixter (Jason Alford)
Cascade (Roy Walton)

....and so on and so forth.

How about helping me construct the list of your favorite tricks using the Elmsley Count?

(the above are not MY favorite, just a list of some of the ones I can think of while sitting here)
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Postby Bill Duncan » 12/21/01 06:13 PM

Alien Autopsy > Tacoma's own Steve Dobsen (and someone else I don't know... sorry)

My nomination:
Overture by Phil Goldstein
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Postby Guest » 12/21/01 07:17 PM

A good trick using the Elmsley Ghost count... let see... what about Twisting the aces(Vernon)?
Even if I prefer to use the asher twist, but that's an other thread ;)
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Postby Rafael Benatar » 12/21/01 07:35 PM

Walton's Illogical Conclusion is cool too, with Elmsley and Jordan
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Postby Charlie Chang » 12/22/01 08:26 AM

To me the list of finest uses for the Elmsley count would go like this:

Twisting The Aces
Elmsley's 4 Card Trick
Walton's Cascade
Williamson's 4 Card Repeat
Sadowitz' "Brothel"

I know there are more but I do all of these so they get my vote.
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Postby pduffie » 12/22/01 09:16 AM

No point in repeating any from above, so I'll add:

"Impact" (Roy Walton)
"Backflip" (Sam Schwartz)
"BOMB!" (Walt Maddison)
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Postby Guest » 12/22/01 11:00 AM

Just to step off the beaten path for a moment, how about a related question: tricks that make most creative use of the Elmsley count. I've always been intrigued with John Bannon's "Discrepancy City Prediction" and it's relative, "Heart of the City" for this reason.

A tangent based on Peter Duffie's most recent post . . . With regard to Backflip, it's been a while since I've done it, but has anyone come up with a handling that eliminates the rather fishy alignment-type move that (if memory serves) needs to be repeated with each round? Or alternately, some form of "presentational cover" for this seemingly unnatural and unnecessary action?
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Postby pduffie » 12/22/01 11:14 AM

Hi Ezra

Bill Goodwin has a count that eliminates that extra move in Backflip, while still looking like a hand-to-hand count, but I don't know if he's published it.

Regards

Peter
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Postby Guest » 12/22/01 02:07 PM

Some that I like and use are:
Reset and Limo service (Harris)
Hofzinser in my pocket (Duffie)
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Postby Guest » 12/22/01 02:19 PM

Originally posted by Peter Duffie:
Hi Ezra

Bill Goodwin has a count that eliminates that extra move in Backflip, while still looking like a hand-to-hand count, but I don't know if he's published it.




Thanks for the info, Peter. Okay, then, I'll take it as a card problem and see what I can come up with! I've always avoided Backflip for that reason. --Ezra.
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Postby David Devlin » 01/13/06 09:26 PM

David Acer's "Pick Pocket"
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Postby rage » 01/14/06 02:57 AM

you can never go wrong with Twisting the Aces. especially if you do the extra ending as mentioned in Strong Magic. this is definately a great trick, i love it. i just performed it tonight actually. :genii:
with an N
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Postby Guest » 01/14/06 09:10 AM

Williamson's
"Famous 3 Card Trick"
(Williamon's Wonders, Kaufman)

Dan Garrett also has a superb / similar routine
"Four Card Reiteration" (if I'm not mistaken, this was published in his lecture notes)
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Postby Yves Tourigny » 01/14/06 09:31 AM

As for myself I rediscovered Twisting the Aces after seeing a performance of it be Roger Klause at the last 52 Get-Together in Buffalo. I now do it almost exactly like it was written in Ganson book plus a small variation at the end. Great trick!

Yves
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Postby Pete McCabe » 01/14/06 08:09 PM

The two that stand out in my mind are the Garrett/Williamson "4 Card Reiteration" and the Williamson "3-Card Repeat," both already mentioned.

These are the only tricks I can think of where the Elmsley Count is used while you are counting the cards. That is to say, the only two tricks that I know where an Elmsley count is motivated by the need to count the cards.

I'm sure there are more, and I look forward to learning some of them as this thread continues. But I have seen a pretty good number of tricks, including at least 100 that use the Elmsley count. And only two I can remember that use it as a count.
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Postby David Regal » 01/14/06 08:16 PM

...and to make a card appear, vanish, or change:

Four cards - face down, face up, face up, face down.

Elmsley count - card "A" is displayed

Elmsley count again - it changes to card "B"

A lovely thing.
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Postby Philippe Noël » 01/15/06 02:10 AM

Here are a few more:
Elmsley Assembly(Brother Hamman)
Underground Transposition(Brother Hamman)
Hamman's twist(Brother Hamman)
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Postby Ian Kendall » 01/15/06 04:29 AM

At the risk of unearthing a hidden gem that (apparantly) few people do; John Bannon's Big Time Discrepancy Prediction from Impossibilia (and not the over muddled Heart of the City version from Smoke and Mirrors. Sorry John).

Take care, Ian

EDIT: Whoops, just seen this in a post from five years ago. Must read the topic thoroughly before typing, and not just scan it...
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Postby Philippe Noël » 01/15/06 10:11 AM

By the way, all the tricks contained in "Tricks you can count on" by Verne Chesbro and Larry West use the Elmsley Count.

Face the face
Confusion
Air mail
Jumping Jack Rabbit Card
The Jack is a joker
Acrobatic Cards
Twisting the acrobats
Buckaroo
Flipper
Rapid Aces
All The Non-Conformists
Trance-Position
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Postby Vraagaard » 01/16/06 07:34 AM

Twisted Sisters, pop's tomind although the Elmsley is just used to a display of four cards -great effect.

But a lot of the above already described effects are perfect examples of exellent use of the Elmsley count - guess Vernons Twisting the Aces are the best welknown of the classics.
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Postby Jeff Pierce Magic » 01/16/06 07:56 AM

Jason Wethington has a great Wildcard Routine where he uses the Elmsly count as a display, not a count, a nice use of a overused sleight.

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Postby Fred Zimmerman » 01/16/06 08:00 AM

This is just a side note, but an observation regarding how the Elmsley is used. I prefer tricks where the "count" is used casually to display cards, and not to literally "count" them.

The moment you draw attention to the number of cards you have, people will start not believing that there are the number you say there are, and so the heat is on. Therefore, the "count" works best in a routine such as B'wave, where you can casually display the cards without drawing strict attention to the number of cards.

And BTW, I keep putting "count" in quotations because, as I learned it, the Elmsley isn't necessarily a "count," but is rather a "displacement." (A "count" leaves the cards in their original order, and a "displacement" leaves them in a new order.)

However, I am not an authority, just a victim of my early learning. ;)

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Postby Guest » 01/19/06 03:01 AM

Hi all,
We all have special effects and others maybe that we just do because we tolerate them, they are convenient and invariably play well.
One that I do more often than I want, and like your kid sister you love it but it just keeps popping up & getting in the way, is 'Masque'.
Its a good use of the ELMSLEY and other pleasant sleights too and I find always plays better than I would have thought.

Although I have changed things about it over the years and have altered the end to include a colour monte type finish where for some 'indiscypherable' reason all the cards other than the spade have turned into one of the red aces?

Like Topsy (my mythical sister]... it just grew!

Zapik
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Postby Curtis Kam » 01/19/06 03:56 AM

Here's an interesting couplet--two tricks that would not be the same without Elmsley's Ghost Count, one that hopes no one catches the discrepancy in the face up count, and one that makes a trick out of it:

Jazz Aces (Kane)

The Universal Card (I defer to Mr. Racherbaumer here)
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Postby Bob Klase » 01/19/06 09:32 AM

My absolute favorite- Jim Swain's Capitulating Queens.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 01/19/06 11:19 AM

I'm surprised no one has mentioned any of the Jennings' handlings of Twisting the Aces--I think they're superior to the original. But the killer of all killers is the handling I published in my Inner Workings column in MAGIC by Jennings, Dingle, and Skinner. It combines two Jennings routines and was for many years one of Dingle's most closely held secrets: a real magician killer.
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine
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Postby Jim Morton » 01/20/06 10:06 AM

Let's not forget Michael Skinner's version of Oil and Water.

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Postby Pete McCabe » 01/20/06 03:07 PM

Richard:

Any more hints you'd care to give? I'll be in the Castle Library next Weds and I'd love to look this up. What issue/year/etc.?


Pete
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Postby Guest » 01/20/06 10:40 PM

Twisted Trio (Jennings, Dingle, Skinner): Magic, Sept. 1991, pp.32-27
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Postby Pete McCabe » 01/21/06 09:04 AM

Thanks Dale.
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Postby Rafael Benatar » 01/21/06 04:47 PM

A couple more:
Ascanio's Oil and Water
Roy Walton's Illogical Conclusion
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Postby Guest » 01/22/06 05:55 AM

Your mention of Roy Walton prompts me to add Impact and A Switch in Tinme.

Dave
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Postby Sean Macfarlane » 01/22/06 05:24 PM

Hi Richard. What issue of MAGIC were they published in?

Best,

Sean
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Postby Steve Hook » 01/22/06 09:26 PM

Originally posted by Sean Macfarlane:
Hi Richard. What issue of MAGIC were they published in?
Sean:

See the Dale Hoyt reply.
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Postby Leonard Hevia » 01/27/06 06:34 AM

Garret/Williamson's Four Card Repeat/Reiteration. May I inquire where it's published?
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Postby Ian Kendall » 01/27/06 08:38 AM

Close up connivery
Williamson's Wonders
One of the Workers books Edit - not the book, DVD vol 3
Closely Guarded Secrets

Take care, Ian

Edit: just checked, not on Magic Farm...
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Postby Van » 01/27/06 11:09 AM

Vernon's Varient page 225 Ultimate Card Secrets.
First published in Genii sometime in the 60's.
There is a good variation in Apocalype that takes the heat off the spectator.

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Postby Leonard Hevia » 01/27/06 11:45 AM

Thank you Ian! :)
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Postby Q. Kumber » 01/27/06 01:54 PM

My vote is for Robert Neale's presentation of the Four Card Trick, "The Lost Dream", especially as performed by Eugene Burger.
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 01/27/06 02:05 PM

I like the trick "false count practice" or "follow the leader" where you turn the top card of a packet over, and the rest follow. You can find this both in one Apocalypse and in one of the Frank Garcia books.
Mundus vult decipi
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