What would be the strongest card revelation if...

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.

Postby Vraagaard » 10/18/05 06:34 AM

Lets say you gave the spectator a totally free selection of a card e.g. by a free choice from a ribbon spread, and afterwards handed him the deck, asked him to insert the card and shuffle. Lets say you at this point know his card but of course not its position. Yes, I know, it sounds 100% clean and it is, except there is ways of knowing his chosen cards. Then, what would be your most magical or mental revelation of the chosen card?

Would it be going into the end phase of Bill Goldmans one for the money
Would it be mind reading
Or would you prefer are strong magical revelation

Of cours I'm looking for the real showstopper here. Let's hear your suggestions.
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Postby Spellbinder » 10/18/05 06:52 AM

After ribbon spreading the cards, one of the cards would begin to wiggle and then slide out of the spread onto the table. Suddenly it would flip over and reveal itself to be the chosen card. The spectator, on picking it up, would see his or her signature on the face of the card, although they never signed it. How's that for a strong ending?
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Postby Vraagaard » 10/18/05 07:12 AM

Originally posted by Jim Gerrish:
After ribbon spreading the cards, one of the cards would begin to wiggle and then slide out of the spread onto the table. Suddenly it would flip over and reveal itself to be the chosen card. The spectator, on picking it up, would see his or her signature on the face of the card, although they never signed it. How's that for a strong ending?
Hi Jim, Although a great effect and funny remark, then that is not quite what I'm looking for. I'm looking for something that you can actually pull of in a performing situation.
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Postby Fred Zimmerman » 10/18/05 10:31 AM

Hi,

I'm all for sharing, and helping my fellow magi out, but what you're asking is for "A" material from someone's act. If someone actually tips a truly good revelation, my hat is off to them and they've burned some time off purgatory, but I wouldn't hold your breath.

I know I've shared ideas with close friends, or at least fellow magicians I trust, but to do it anonymously on a cyber-board is tricky. (no pun intended).

So, I wish you well on your search, but know that the best material will most likely not appear.

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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 10/18/05 10:58 AM

Let's see what we have here and what sort of story might come of it.

You offer them a card. Then you demand it back. Then you offer then the deck. Then you demand it back.

Now you want to reveal the card you almost gave them at the start of these proceedings. Are we about on the same page?

I suppose folks might be impressed if you reached down to pick up a kitten from under the table, and it proceeded to cough up a hairball that included their card. Sort of a "Bill the Cat finds your card" and you can give away the hairball and the kitten if so inclined. That's a lot of kittens to carry though so let me think about this some more.
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Postby Andru Luvisi » 10/18/05 11:21 AM

Steven Youell has some good work on this idea (known card, unknown position) in his Weapons of Mass Destruction lecture notes.

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Postby Bill Duncan » 10/18/05 11:48 AM

The most "magical" revelation will depend on who you are performing for, not the conditions under which the card is selected.

Do you have a specific audience in mind or have you just invented a method and need an effect to do with it?
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 10/18/05 12:03 PM

Okay, a few minutes and a few dozen posts on the caf later I had an idea, or maybe I read this somewhere...

Let's say you have an ultra-mental deck somewhere on-hand. Here are two options.

1) Take out the other (UM) deck and do a let's pretend repeat of the procedure. A recap for those who came late and an exercise in imagination for the volunteer. They follow the procedure but not with the cards, just mime BUT this time they turn their card face up before putting it back into the spread. You then remind them that they did this for real with the deck that is now on the table, and this time you helped them repeat the procedure by magic. When you spread the cards, the pretend has become real, the deck has one face down card...

2) One step further into the twilight zone... you ask them if they are sure about what they did and if they are sure they could do it again if asked. As they reply you scoop up the deck and switch in the UM deck. As above this is a repeat procedure though with the card inversion. You now offer to make what is into what was just pretend. And after suitable clarification, you show them that in this newly altered reality, all is as it would have been except that the card is reversed. IE you did not change the card, all you did was switch realities on them.

:D

Before a guy named Frank puts me on Prozac I'd better thank Darwin Ortiz for inspiring the above ideas with an item he discussed in his first lecture in 1977. Some great thinking there and all I've done is played with the story a bit.
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Postby Curtis Kam » 10/18/05 12:31 PM

Not sure if you're looking for inspirations or research. From the published literature, when in this position, I then ask the spectator to shuffle the cards face up and face down, and proceed with the rest of Kostya Kimlat's "Culligula's Triumph".
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Postby Erik Hemming » 10/18/05 12:34 PM

I always thought Malini's revelation with the spectator discovering their chosen card sewn into their clothing was truly inspired.

I don't think it's practical today.

Inspired and inspiring. Not practical.

But talk abut "vaiting a veek...."

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Postby Spellbinder » 10/18/05 12:38 PM

Sorry you don't think my revelation is "doable," but that's OK. It wasn't a joke, but I'd just as soon be the only one doing it.
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Postby Guest » 10/18/05 01:06 PM

It all boils down to you finding the selected card. You can name it, pull it out of the deck, or take it out of your pocket. Unless you develop a premise, plot, and payoff, its a show and tell trick. They pick a card, you find it.

But what if you didnt just reveal the selectors selection? What if you could psychoanalyze information out of someone? What if, using psychoanalysis, you could reveal an audience members secret thoughts? What if, at the same time, you could develop your character? And be funny, clever, and witty in public. Do you get to do all that with standard pick a card tricks?

There is a trick that allows you to do all this. It was released in 2003. Not only was the method fully explained, but the presentation was completely detailed, with tips on the blocking, staging, timing, and tempo.

Now what if I told you that the price was only TEN DOLLARS? Interested?

Its called Senator Crandalls Cut-Up Card Trick and its available for only $10 from Think Like a Conjurer, the Website for the Ron Bauer Private Studies series.

http://www.thinklikeaconjurer.com/

Have fun, and if you havent tried the Ron Bauer Private Studies series, pick out a few scripts that look interesting and give em a try.

I think I forgot to mention that Ron Bauer, the author of this and the other annotated performance scripts that make up the Ron Bauer Private Studies series, is a professional writer, director, and actor! Only $10 a piece!
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Postby Pete Biro » 10/18/05 03:15 PM

Spread cards on table. Ask someone to take any card... as they are looking at their card, the deck, on the table, BURSTS INTO FLAME and vanishes.

POOF.

I have six of these flashpaper decks left, Send $3,495.00 via paypal and you will GET YOURS!
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Postby John Wilson » 10/18/05 04:02 PM

There is a new DVD being offered on Hocus-Pocus teaching favorites like: Card to spectators bra, and card to spectators underwear...If you could only get it sewn in like Malini did. :cool:
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Postby Vraagaard » 10/19/05 01:32 AM

Originally posted by Jonathan Townsend:
Let's see what we have here and what sort of story might come of it.

You offer them a card. Then you demand it back. Then you offer then the deck. Then you demand it back.

Not quite what I'm saying Jonathan. To clarify a little bit. I offer them a freely selected card from a ribbon spread. I scoop the deck up and hand them the deck and they can themselves insert their card and shuffle. I don't "demand anything back" in between, from the point where I hand them the deck - I already know their freely chosen card (oh no the cards are not marked in anyway). It's from thsi point on I'm looking for the strongest possible ending.

Having said that - I really like your Ultramental deck suggestion. Thanks a lot
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Postby Vraagaard » 10/19/05 01:39 AM

Originally posted by Jim Gerrish:
Sorry you don't think my revelation is "doable," but that's OK. It wasn't a joke, but I'd just as soon be the only one doing it.
Hi Jim,

Thanks for correcting me - I guess I was a bit presumptious - apologize for that - it just shows my lack of imagination and also that I'm pretty used to funny remarks in these forums that are not always a 100% serious. Apologize for putting your remark in that category.

Well, I can clearly visualise the card wiggling faling out of the spread and turning around. The part of having the spectators signature/name appear on it where they didn't sign it the first place - kind of threw me of - figuring you were joking a bit. I see your point and this will be a real signature effect - I can't wait to hear about you performing this masterpiece.

I'm planning to do my effect mostly table hopping since this is what I do most. So I'm actually looking for endings that are pragmatic and as strong as possible in a walk around situation. I'm not sure to what extent your effect requries a little preshow knowledge and set-up that would make it impratical for a walkaround situation.
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Postby Vraagaard » 10/19/05 01:43 AM

Hi Curtis and Cameron,

Thanks a lot for the Kostya Kimlat's "Culligula's Triumph and the Ron Bauer inspiration. I will immediately look in to these. Thanks again.
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Postby Brian Marks » 10/19/05 09:33 AM

How about this. Spectator thinks of a card. You name it. Don't even need cards for this one. I don't have method but I have done it a few times successfully. A couple times I did twice in a row.
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Postby Guest » 10/19/05 06:02 PM

respectfully, I'm not too sure about the initial selection using a physical deck, especially for an audience familiar with a standard pack of cards ... it would be more understandable with something like a Tarot deck or a stack of business cards

so I myself would favor something more like: "think of a card -- turn it over in your mind -- remember: there is no card ... " then take a physical pack out of a locked chest, old-fashioned telephone, etc. ...

but if starting with a physical deck for the selection, the card itself should be involved in the revelation somehow, e.g., in the fish tank or beer, under someone's plate with a sprig of parsley, Triumph-style, etc.

maybe when playing for a couple, have them cut the deck, shuffle their halves, each pick a card, then have the two cards somehow appear under each other's [censored] napkins or plates

some restaurant revelation ideas would be to have the card printed inside a menu, included inside the folder that contains the check, or written on a little cake with a sparkler that is delivered to the table

some Hallowe'en ideas would be to have the card selected, put the shuffled deck into a little casket, shine a flashlight into it with some Van Helsing malarkey, and have the rest of the deck turn into ashes or a bunch of little black origami bats, except for the selected card

another less practical idea would be to "receive a phone call" that there is some doubt whether Uncle Einar is really dead ... inquest underway ... lead the party of spectators across town and through the foggy moors to where the coffin is being exhumed ... when it has been raised and opened, there is a large glow-in-the-dark skeleton with a sign that says "I'm not dead yet! But I have Julie's card! Ha Ha!" with the appropriate card stuck to its forehead.
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Postby Guest » 10/19/05 06:42 PM

Originally posted by Pete Biro:
Spread cards on table. Ask someone to take any card... as they are looking at their card, the deck, on the table, BURSTS INTO FLAME and vanishes.
the first few times, I thought it was the card, the deck AND the table bursting into flames and vanishing

sorry for the misreading, but that would probably qualify as a showstopper

but it probably wouldn't be so good for table-hopping once the management catches on
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Postby Anthony Brahams » 10/20/05 01:24 AM

Card chosen, returned, apparently lost in deck. Magician takes out a card-it's wrong then changes it to the correct one. IMHO a change is far stronger than a find. Examples of effects: Hot Card Trick (Leech), I've got a surprise for you (Fechter).

While I am posting, Pete, please change your calendar, it is not April 1st today!
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Postby Pete Biro » 10/20/05 10:16 AM

Whit Haydn's CHICAGO SURPRISE is as good as any routine gets....
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 10/20/05 10:28 AM

Originally posted by Vraagaard:
...most magical or mental revelation of the chosen card?...
That pretty much depends upon the audience, venue and the sort of result one wants from the piece.

If you KNOW the card, a card index might be handy. If you were to FORCE the card, then all sorts of things are workable.
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Postby Pete Biro » 10/20/05 12:47 PM

When Geno gets Jimmy Grippo's "real work" in print it will be a weapon with unbelievable power to those willing to WORK AT IT.
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Postby Guest » 10/20/05 06:49 PM

Originally posted by Vraagaard:
Lets say you gave the spectator a totally free selection of a card e.g. by a free choice from a ribbon spread, and afterwards handed him the deck, asked him to insert the card and shuffle. Lets say you at this point know his card but of course not its position. Yes, I know, it sounds 100% clean and it is, except there is ways of knowing his chosen cards. Then, what would be your most magical or mental revelation of the chosen card?
if "truly free" versus "apparently free" choice is a key issue, let the spectator have the cards from the beginning and show the selection at the outset -- keep things out of the magician's hands -- that might up the ante and increase the impact of whatever revelation

e.g., hand an envelope containing a card to someone else at the table, addressed: "To Whom It May Very Well Cause Some Concern", with a Ruritanian stamp and postmark, or similar

hand the deck to another spectator / player in the ensemble (I don't mean a confederate by this) ... ask them to shuffle, make a show of it if they want to, then pick one card ... "let your fingers send out their psychic feelers ... we live in a cloud of possibilities but moment by moment we must select one particular reality" ... and have them lay the card face up on the table

magician: "I hope you don't mind, but I find that particular choice ... rather disturbing, yet heartwarming ... you could not have known this, but the card in the envelope has traveled far in search of its long-lost cousin"

e.g., selected card on the table is 4D and card in the envelope turns out to be the 4H, maybe with a different back ... I believe that would be practical, remarkable and resonant, without being impolitely freaky

(side-note: I wouldn't use "twin" or "soul-mate" -- those might accidentally hit a deep nerve in a bad way)
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Postby Guest » 10/21/05 08:24 PM

Probably the best that I have seen is Irv Weiner's Knick Knack done with a proper amount of showmanship. (I must say that when Irv did it he did NOT have that proper amount and the effect was weak.) A spectator is given a brand new deck of cards, told to open it and discard the jokers and advertising card. After this he is to shuffle the deck two or three times, cut the cards two or three times, look at the card to which he cut, insert it into eithr half of the deck, shuffle the cards, shuffle again if he likes. The magicin picks the deck up from the table handling it for the first time. The magician then removes A card from the deck, asks the spectator to name his card and then reveals that that is the card he is holding. (When I did this for Dick Zimmerman in the fifties he fortuitously cut the card to the top on his second post shuffle cut. This made for a strong handling as I didn't touch the cards at all. I asked him to name his card. He did and I then asked him to turn over the top card of the deck which was on the table. His card. You can't count on tht kind of luck very often.)
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Postby John Wilson » 10/21/05 11:20 PM

How about you have them sign the card, you swallow it, then roll up your sleeve whereupon the spectators see the shape of a card travelling under your skin down your arm. Next, you would cut open your arm and remove the card from under your skin...and hey presto it's the signed selection. :eek: Just an idea I got watching TV the other day.
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Postby Spellbinder » 10/23/05 10:19 AM

My friend Fred Goode (current director of the Wiz Kids) has been watching me do this trick (I call it "Spirit Cards") for several years now and he has come up with a variation he calls "the Moses variation."

When you arrive at the point where the spectator has shuffled his freely chosen and at this stage still unknown card into the deck, Fred has the spectator ribbon spread the cards on the table. Then Fred holds out his hands over the cards and "parts" the ribbon, like Moses parted the Red Sea. The spectator's chosen card remains still and the other cards pull away to the left and the right of it.

Fred also adds a twist to the signature part. I just have the signature show up on the card as a shocker, but Fred sets them up for it. He turns over the spectator's unsigned card face down and has the spectator take an invisible pen. The spectator is then asked to sign his name in the air above the card. Fred thanks him, takes back the "invisible pen" and leaves the spectator to turn over the card and discover that it now has his signature on it. This is a much stronger ending for the signature appearance. Fred gave me permission to mention it here, since he rarely has time to visit forums.

Spellbinder just published Fred's "Invisible Pen" ending in The Wizards' Journal #7.
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