Left hand bottom palm

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Left hand bottom palm

Postby Guest » March 6th, 2002, 7:49 pm

In the Vernon Revelations Series, Michael Ammar explains this palm, using the method from Erdnase, where the pinky of the right hand pushes the cards into the left palm. There is very little finger movement of the left hand.
In card College 3, it is an upward motion of the deck by the right hand, and an imobile pinky which pivots the card into the palm. This method has much movement of the left fingers.

Any tips to keep those left hand fingers still using the card college method. I find the method out of Erdnase a little awkward for me.

Alpen
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Re: Left hand bottom palm

Postby Alpen » March 6th, 2002, 10:02 pm

Chris,

As For the Card College method, as far as I can remember, he suggests a pinky break on top of the bottom card... I find that just contacting the bottom right corner of the card is enough so that a small movement is enough to move the card. Otherwise, doing the palm while moving the deck forward (in the action of a square-up) while keeping the thumb glued to the side of the deck should suffice since when the deck is moved forward, the left fingers are not really seen as much.

On a different note, I did see one variation of the Erdnase palm doneby Boston magician Steve Kradolfer... and it looked phenomenal. He cut the cards as he bottom palmed, I believe, 4 cards, and it flew by me. If you ever get a chance to see him or talk to him, ask him about it.

Alpen

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Pete Biro
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Re: Left hand bottom palm

Postby Pete Biro » March 7th, 2002, 7:59 am

The left hand bottom cop is the greatest move in card magic...

Deck in hand I just make a slight gesture with that hand and left index finger buckles bottom card slightly so you get a break at right rear corner.

I then just reach over the top with my right hand and TAKE ALL THE CARDS AWAY above the break as the left hand just "dies" and drops to my side.

You don't have to worry about leaks, nuttin' as nobody sees the left hand.

I nailed a card hustler at a Vegas session one time with this....

He said, after dealing beautiful bottoms onto a bar stool, "What do you do?" handing me the deck.

I said, "Nothing," handed him the deck back and after a few seconds I said, "Other than this." As I showed him the card I copped he smiled and said, "You got the money on that one."

Remember him and that moment, Geno?

:D
Stay tooned.

Matt Sedlak
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Re: Left hand bottom palm

Postby Matt Sedlak » March 7th, 2002, 3:45 pm

Alpen,

The palm you referred to where the deck is cut may have been the Swing-Cut Bottom Palm. However it may have been Marlo's Action Bottom Palm. Either way, if their is justification for cutting the deck both of those palms can be very powerful tools.

Guest

Re: Left hand bottom palm

Postby Guest » March 7th, 2002, 4:22 pm

I've been rehearsing The Travelers (exactly how it's written up in Stars of Magic). You need to bottom palm and pocket two cards during the introductory phase (as you know). Misdirection is plentiful, but from a purist standpoint, all that finger movement is just God awefull!
I've considered using the Gamblers cop as a replacement for those two cards, but that left hand has to enter the front left pants pocket. A little cumbersome.

Ed Oschmann
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Re: Left hand bottom palm

Postby Ed Oschmann » March 7th, 2002, 6:35 pm

I've made the Traveler's routine (and its variants) look much cleaner by substituting Ernie Earicks one-handed version of the Erdnase bottom palm. Nothing is detected as the right hand is available to misdirect. It can also be burned even without the misdirection.
It's in Ernie's book 'By Forces Unseen' (Hermetic Press) in the routine Bureau d' Exchange.

Guest

Re: Left hand bottom palm

Postby Guest » March 7th, 2002, 6:42 pm

I'm curious to know how one palms two cards off the bottom with one hand. Interesting

Ed Oschmann
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Re: Left hand bottom palm

Postby Ed Oschmann » March 7th, 2002, 7:51 pm

To over simplify the sleight, the deck is held in a very high mechanics grip, the forefinger anchors the deck at the upper right corner of the deck and the pinky pulls the card(s) into the left hand palm.

Terry
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Re: Left hand bottom palm

Postby Terry » March 8th, 2002, 7:47 am

I've considered using the Gamblers cop as a replacement for those two cards, but that left hand has to enter the front left pants pocket. A little cumbersome.


I've just tried this and it seems easier to me to let the left fingers lead into and open up the pocket for the cards than to possibly snag a card corner going into the pocket with a palm.

Possibilities: 1. Type of pants worn 2. Size of your hand 3. Position of card in your hand doing the cop.

Just some random thoughts....

Guest

Re: Left hand bottom palm

Postby Guest » March 8th, 2002, 9:56 am

I do not recommend using the Gambler's Cop unless you are using it for what it was intended for - holding out at the card table. You may be asking for trouble if performing this move while standing.

Holding the card in Gambler's Cop position is the first half of the move. The second half of the move is turning your wrist towards the table. The cards pretty much go under the table (which is why the move is invisible at the card table). It's a very disarming concealment because you can even spread or move the fingers a little bit to emphasize the emptiness of the hand if seated.

Unfortunately this critical element (using the table as cover) is absent when you are standing. If you have people to your left (assuming you are copping in the left hand), you could flash.

My recommendation is to never use the gamblers cop standing. There are a variety of palming techniques that are perfect for practically any magic situation throughout our literature.

You can begin the attacks now. ;)

[ February 32, 2002: Message edited by: Mark Ennis ]

[ March 08, 2002: Message edited by: Mark Ennis ]

Pete McCabe
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Re: Left hand bottom palm

Postby Pete McCabe » March 8th, 2002, 11:41 am

I use the gambler's cop often and frequently while standing. But I don't perform before large crowds so I have better control of my angles.

But if I did I would work hard to learn Guy Hollingworth's addition to the Gambler's Cop (in Drawing Room Deceptions) which considerably improves the angles.

Matt Sedlak
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Re: Left hand bottom palm

Postby Matt Sedlak » March 8th, 2002, 1:19 pm

Mark, I would have to agree that a gambler's cop is not a good move when standing, most of the time. However, there are situations when it is perfect. If I am performing for a small group of people or an individual, then it is easy for me to position myslef so that everybod is either centered or to the right of myself, basically in a position where a copped card is invisible. Usually if I am going to cop a card it is out of a Convincing Control. If the angles dictate I will control it into a full palm position which is just as easy but depending on what I am going to do with the card once it is out of the deck depends on how I will remove it. If i am going to just hold it out and replace it on the bottom chances are I will cop the card. If it is going to be loaded into something then I will palm it, but once again this depends on the situation and what I am going to load it into. Now, about the Hollingworth gamblers cop. I don't really see what you gain from it. If you want to have a card in your hand in a position where the hand can be shown with better angles it would be more efficient to palm the card.

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Left hand bottom palm

Postby Richard Kaufman » March 8th, 2002, 6:41 pm

It's obvious that you guys never saw Larry Jennings use the Gambler's Cop. He ALWAYS used it to palm when he was standing, and when he was performing for a SMALL group where he could control the angles. He used a regular palm if the group was larger.
The Gambler's Cop is PERFECT for standing situations if you are performing for a small group.
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Guest

Re: Left hand bottom palm

Postby Guest » March 8th, 2002, 8:00 pm

I thought about Jennings (the Mystery Card, I believe). He brings a card back out from his left pocket after pretending to place it there. Loads it back onto the deck from gamblers cop. There must be more examples.

It feels a bit strange though, loading two cards in gamblers cop into the left front
pants pocket.

[ March 08, 2002: Message edited by: ChrisDavid ]

Ed Oschmann
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Re: Left hand bottom palm

Postby Ed Oschmann » March 9th, 2002, 5:20 am

I've never been comfortable palming or copping cards into my pocket and the replace them back on the deck a moment later.
There is a great idea from, I think, Max Maven who suggest that you feign placing the cards into your pocket. You do this during a body swing from right to left. It's very convincing. I just can't rember the source.

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Re: Left hand bottom palm

Postby Denis Behr » March 9th, 2002, 10:26 am

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ChrisDavid:
It feels a bit strange though, loading two cards in gamblers cop into the left front
pants pocket.


In "Secrets Draun from Underground" there is a pocket loading technique by Steve Draun similar to the Gordon Bruce method to load from the left hand gambler's Cop into left fron trouser pockets. Page 120.

Bill Duncan
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Re: Left hand bottom palm

Postby Bill Duncan » March 9th, 2002, 10:26 am

There is a great idea from, I think, Max Maven who suggest that you feign placing the cards into your pocket.


Ed,
The effect is "Sans Fronds" in The New York Magic Symposium Collection Three. It's a no palm version of Jenning's "The Mystery Card".

I had the pleasure of seeing Mr. Maven perform this at a lecture in Seattle about ten years ago. It's all that [I}and[/I] an bag of chips!


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