Real Secrets: Crediting

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Postby Ted M » 02/28/13 11:14 AM

How adequate do people feel the crediting has been for Real Secrets?

Is the RS standard of a bare list of surnames -- no first names, no effect names, no publication citations -- in line with modern standards?
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Postby Denis Behr » 02/28/13 11:20 AM

Actually, I found the crediting rather useless and lacking in the details you listed.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 02/28/13 12:25 PM

I agree; ideally the crediting should be more than just a list of last names.
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Postby Pete McCabe » 02/28/13 04:54 PM

Supposed I come up with a trick that uses an idea I learned from a RS item. If I want to publish my trick, how do I determine whom to ask permission to use the idea? And if I get permission, how do I credit it? I can't mention that it was used in a Real Secrets idea without violating the NDA.

Usually, before I publish anything, I run it by Bill Goodwin at the Magic Castle. I don't think Bill is a member of RS, so now I can't do that. But what if the idea is not original with RS, it's just something old that I didn't know? How do I find this out?

I understand the secrecy aspect of the project. But I think the crediting does a disservice to the customers, and the RS team, and most importantly, to the people who created the original ideas that the RS items are built on.
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Postby Q. Kumber » 02/28/13 05:16 PM

Just credit the same people that RS credited.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 02/28/13 05:25 PM

Or don't publish your variation. That's even simpler. And I think that's what Real Secrets has in mind.
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Postby Pete McCabe » 02/28/13 05:35 PM

QK:
I can't credit the same people because I don't know who in their list is responsible for what parts of the trick.

RK:
The specific RS item I am thinking of is a variation of something that came before. They published their variation. Why can't I publish mine?

The item has a bit of technique I've never seen before. I would like to use it in my variation. If it's original with someone from RS, then I would have to ask permission, and if not granted, then I won't publish. But if it's an old idea that I am just not familiar with, then I don't need anyone's permission.

How do I find out which is the case if RS won't tell me and they won't let me ask anyone else? That's the problem I have.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 02/28/13 05:51 PM

I think it's pretty simple: avoid the compulsion to publish it. Not everything has to be published for everyone. If the item is that good, just keep it for yourself and use it.
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Postby PapaG » 02/28/13 06:17 PM

The Marlo Dictum.
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Postby Bill Mullins » 02/28/13 06:35 PM

Have you emailed them? They've responded cordially to a couple of questions I had.
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Postby Q. Kumber » 02/28/13 06:52 PM

If you must publish, consult with the omnipotent one at The Castle.
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Postby Pete McCabe » 03/01/13 12:00 AM

Richard Kaufman wrote:I think it's pretty simple: avoid the compulsion to publish it. Not everything has to be published for everyone. If the item is that good, just keep it for yourself and use it.


I still don't understand why that argument applies to me and not the good people at Real Secrets. They published their variation of an old trick. Why can't I publish my variation of the same old trick? Am I supposed to refrain from publishing a variation of any trick that Real Secrets has published a variation of?

Also, I am not a professional. I create more tricks than I can personally use regularly. I publish these tricks so other people can use them or be inspired by them. It does me little good to keep my ideas for myself, and I get no small satisfaction from finding out that other magicians use or are inspired by things I come up with.

I have lots and lots of tricks that I haven't published, by the way. I have no compulsion to publish. I have a compulsion to create. And when I create something that seems worthy, I enjoy publishing it.

One of my main outlets for these tricks is Genii. If everyone stopped publishing their tricks you might have a much thinner magazine.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 03/01/13 12:24 AM

Of course you can publish a trick of which Real Secrets has also published a variation--don't be silly.

What you should not do is publish a variation of a Real Secrets trick. That's like publishing a variation of a freshly-marketed item that's still selling. People do it, but it sucks.

This has nothing to with the larger questions of whether or not to publish tricks or variations of tricks. Of course we do that!
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Postby Pete McCabe » 03/01/13 02:18 AM

Well perhaps I wasn't clear, but that's what I'm talking about. One (several actually) of the RS tricks is a presentation idea for an old principle. This variation has a feature that I've not seen before. I had my own presentation idea of this same principle, and I would like to include this feature. But I don't know if this feature is original with RS, in which case I can't include it without permission, or if it's old and I just never knew of it. And it is hard.

If I ever do try to publish it, I'll email them and ask. No problem.

I just think that the RS material would be more valuable to me if they had more detailed credits. I enjoy researching the history of different tricks and principles. Most Wednesday nights you can find me in the Castle library doing just that.
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