Carney 2013

Discuss the latest news and rumors in the magic world.

Postby Richard Kaufman » 01/27/13 08:34 PM

I think the Carney monthly video project is going to be one of the real winners:
http://www.carneymagic.com/store_books.html
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Postby Dustin Stinett » 01/27/13 10:28 PM

I know they are because I'm already signed up and have taken January's lesson on the Mora Balls & Net. Look for a review in the March Genii!
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Postby Joe Naud » 01/27/13 10:31 PM

How did I miss the new Carney course? Was there anything posted here? I'm on the forum nearly daily and have no recollection of an announcement about this. Ugh!!
Peace, Joe
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Postby erdnasephile » 01/27/13 11:12 PM

Agree with Dustin: first lesson is typical Carney: fooling, entertaining, and extremely well thought out. No pipe dreams. No fluff. Just a professional, A-material, audience-tested worker. Something you can be proud to learn and perform. Plus, principles to make the rest of your routines better.

If you are serious about your magic, you can't go wrong with this series!
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Postby Dustin Stinett » 01/27/13 11:14 PM

Joe Naud wrote:How did I miss the new Carney course? Was there anything posted here? I'm on the forum nearly daily and have no recollection of an announcement about this. Ugh!!
Peace, Joe

I can't find where John post it here, so maybe he didn't. He did announce it at the Genii Bash which is where I learned of it.
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Postby erdnasephile » 01/27/13 11:19 PM

I found out due to being on his mailing list. Don't recall a formal announcement on Genii Forum.

Perhaps John's project deserves it's own thread so we don't detract from Paul and Jason's project (which is also going to be amazing, I'm sure!)
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Postby Joe Naud » 01/28/13 12:09 AM

Thanks guys. Sorry for the added confusion. Still being on the lookout for a job has given me plenty of time to check the forum so missing this from one of my favorite magicians was a shocker. Now figuring out how to pay for it will be step 2.
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Postby Dustin Stinett » 01/28/13 01:11 AM

John Carney has launched his online program of magic instruction. The posts below are (I hope) merged from another thread where they were sort of out of place, but they deserve their own thread, so here they are... (above this one)
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Postby erdnasephile » 01/28/13 01:38 AM

Here's the schedule for the year: (from the link in the first post)

January - Think you know the classic Mora Balls and Net? How is it Johns is so magical? Learn a very commercial, packs small, plays big routine, and the secret to making it look like real magic.

February - The Vanishing Bird Cage reimagined. Several methods for this classic trick, with, and without a pull! A lesson itself on problem solving and the persuit of better methods and effects.

March - Fixing Fundamentals. Sometimes what holds us back are the tiny details in tools we use everyday; common mistakes with double lifts, palming, natualness or posture. Correct these and everything you do looks more polished and professional.

April - Eddie Fechters 8 to 12 is a very commercial card routine that John has used throughout his career. Discover the touches and ideas that have made it one of his favorites. Lots of great general advice on palming playing cards here!

May - Four Gone is a pure manipulative routine that may be done under intimate conditions. A clean and visual production and vanish of four aces in mid-air, ending with a surprise finish of the aces appearing in four different pockets!

June - Time Coin-tinuum- Routining productions, transpostions and vanishes in one beautifully choreorgraphed piece.

July - Impromptu Collection: Strong magic with coins, rings, silverware and other bits, with little or no preparation.

August - Johns clever variations on Leons Haunted Doll House is a miniture illusion, where the spirits come to life, tieing knots in ropes, writing ghostly messages, inhabiting toys, and finally a ghostly face appears floating in space!

September - Choptricks - A perfect illusion of snatching a signed bill from mid air amongst other decoys, while blindfolded ... with chopsticks!

October - Commercial Cards - Card work from Johns working repitoire, along with several unpublished strategems.

November - Touches on the Classics. Not full routines, but touches that make classic routines like the Egg Bag, Linking Rings and Color Changing Hank more deceptive and amazing.

December - Okitos Elixir Silk is a baffling vanish and reproduction of a handkerchief under test conditions. Also included is Charlie Millers Left Handed Knot and the Spirit Knot that visibly unties!
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Postby erdnasephile » 01/28/13 11:41 AM

One thing should be noted: In order to access Carney 2013, you do have to install a proprietary video player, Revizzit. http://revizzit.com/ and you will need to set up a web-based account with them after you purchase the series.

I can verify that the software installs and works easily on a pretty locked down Windows 7 system (although during installation, Windows 7 will flag it as an unusual application that isn't downloaded commonly). It does not install any start up programs, and it doesn't "call home" when it's not being used. It doesn't set off the multiple security programs I have running concurrently, and I haven't been spammed (at this time) from Revizzit. There is a Mac version of the software as well.

You are allowed to view Carney 2013 on up to 4 devices at a time (the iPad app is pending at this time).

The company says that the streaming video is also tagged with information allowing them to identify whose stream was pirated if one attempts to do so. The tag is not visible.

Finally, there are other magic creators (Steinmeyer, Caveney, Rhomany, Alexander, etc.) who have uploaded material to Revizzit, as the viewer can be used to view ebooks as well. You can purchase these items through the Revizzit website.

All in all, a pretty painless way to access some great material.
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Postby mrgoat » 01/28/13 12:19 PM

erdnasephile wrote:One thing should be noted: In order to access Carney 2013, you do have to install a proprietary video player, Revizzit.


MASSIVE MASSIVE #fail.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 01/28/13 12:21 PM

Your comment should be explained. Are you familiar with Revizzit?
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Postby mrgoat » 01/28/13 12:41 PM

Richard Kaufman wrote:Your comment should be explained. Are you familiar with Revizzit?


Purchases online should be 'friction free'. There is no need whatsoever to install proprietary video players in 2013.

That is what makes it a fail.

That coupled with the fact it is full of DRM.

I mean, come on, even the music labels dropped DRM because it doesn't work and ends up being a massive PITA for consumers.

Funny, how two video services launch and one is easy to buy, easy to view, easy to watch, easy to watch on any device.

The other is DRMd, AND you have to install special software to watch it. And it won't stop piracy at all. It has been tried before, failed before.
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Postby Q. Kumber » 01/28/13 12:53 PM

Jay Sankey announced his new online training system at The Session called Inside Deception. So that's four ongoing payment businesses in the magic community, one through the post and the others online.

Mrgoat makes a very important point and having to download extra stuff that no one has ever heard of, will put many off.
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Postby mrgoat » 01/28/13 01:03 PM

Interesting porn analogy is that monthly, ongoing membership sites are becoming less and less popular. People don't want to commit to an ongoing financial transaction.

What has exploded in popularity is live webcam shows. You cannot pirate interaction, so it is working well.

I've suggested it in the past, and know some magicians do video sessions, but having one on one teaching on skype would work very well if marketed properly.
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Postby erdnasephile » 01/28/13 01:21 PM

I agree with much of what has been said. However, I gotta say: although I am usually aggressively reticent to install special software to do anything, I think the quality of the material in Carney's case greatly outweighs my trepidation.

So far, the Revizzit viewer is "playing nice" on my system (indeed it's a lot better behaved than some more famous software programs, e.g., Citrix) and doesn't stay resident and show me unwanted ads, so I don't view it as a "massive" fail at this point.

As far as Skype teaching, Aaron Fisher has been at it for a while, although I've not experienced it.
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Postby Ian Kendall » 01/28/13 01:41 PM

Teaching over Skype is a fun way to contact people all over the world (for example, I have had students from the US and Taiwan). Video quality these days is excellent, and you can give the instant feedback that is lacking in DVDs or even books.

Marketing, however, is the key skill...
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Postby mrgoat » 01/28/13 01:45 PM

erdnasephile wrote: don't view it as a "massive" fail at this point.

The massive fail is demanding one installs special software. It adds friction and will lose sales.


erdnasephile wrote:
As far as Skype teaching, Aaron Fisher has been at it for a while, although I've not experienced it.


Yes a couple have been doing it a while. It needs a big portal style site to come along and persuade all the lecturers to get on it, so it is a one stop magic teaching shop with lots and lots of big names.

Problem is traffic.

Just like launching an adult cam site, you can't get the traffic without having the girls there. And you can't get the girls there if there is no traffic to buy their wares.

I've solved this problem launching two cam sites in the adult space, and what I did would be recreatable with magic. Just needs some small initial investment to build/hire the back end and to do traffic and link buys.
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 01/28/13 01:56 PM

D, there are some distinctions between effective teaching and effective demonstration.
The mirror neuron system is not sufficient (IMHO) for learning things in our craft where doing and informed feedback is critical.
Opening up that side of teaching - to get from demonstration to FAQ to places most people have trouble to specific personal instruction would be a wonderful thing to advance our craft IMHO.
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Postby mrgoat » 01/28/13 02:08 PM

Jonathan Townsend wrote: to get from demonstration to FAQ to places most people have trouble to specific personal instruction would be a wonderful thing to advance our craft IMHO.



not only that, but it would be unpirateable, and provide a nice new revenue stream for the lecturers too.
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 01/28/13 02:24 PM

IMHO it's getting from

show that item in use
and
show how that item is used in context (performer's demonstration of method)

TO

introduce the item in its context and evolution-
show and tell how that item has been applied and learned by the demonstrator to work in the context shown
and
show in detail the places where specific efforts were required to get the item working properly

as base product

THEN TO

here are the places folks have had problems, their workarounds and what they needed to do to learn to use the item as originally described.

THEN TO

given that the FAQ does not include your specific Q - let's get you some help making this item work as you need.
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Postby Chas Nigh » 01/28/13 02:55 PM

Why not market as an eBook at a decent price. I've got a huge investment in my library and I think that $90.00 in this economy is a bit steep for 12 effects with all due respect to John.



w
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 01/28/13 03:33 PM

What Carney is selling is not an eBook--it's a monthly video course. Carney is one of the most knowledable magicians in the world and one of Vernon's foremost students who really understands and puts into practice what he learned.

He's actually charging less than buying 12 one-trick DVDs!
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Postby Ivanovich » 01/28/13 03:48 PM

An online instruction business model that I've been impressed with is the one run by ArtistWorks. This is all music instruction, but I don't see why it wouldn't work for magic, as well.

The staff is composed of greats in their respective fields. There are video lessons that take you from beginner through advanced techniques. The student is encouraged to also send in videos of performance of the lessons (or whatever you are working on) and the instructor responds with a 3-15 minute video commentary discussing what was good, what needed improvement and how to work that up, as well as history, other sources to check, and direct demonstrations of how others have approached the same "piece". All of these submissions and responses are posted for ANY student to watch and learn from.

In addition, there are forums for the students, places to ask questions of the instructor, and sections for performance videos of the instructors and interviews with other greats in the field.

Nothing is DRM, but you do need to be a member to have access. It's all streaming (not downloaded) content. It's a monthly fee, or you can get a discount if you purchase membership for a longer amount of time.

I was skeptical about this model, but after 2 years of doing it I can say that it was some of the best money I've EVER spent in music instruction. Might not be a bad idea for magic.

All of that being said. It's CARNEY. Of course, I'm in!

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Postby Jim Riser » 01/28/13 04:39 PM

Chas Nigh wrote:Why not market as an eBook at a decent price. I've got a huge investment in my library and I think that $90.00 in this economy is a bit steep for 12 effects with all due respect to John.



w


Worth of anything must be decided by the purchaser. While I no longer perform, I do know that I used to regularly perform the Mora Balls and Net and the Vanishing Birdcage. I am fortunate enough to have seen some of John's preliminary work using the Vanishing Birdcage apparatus. Based solely on what John will be offering on this effect alone, I would say that to a working/thinking performer the value of what he is offering far exceeds the price that he is requesting. This year long adventure offered by John could well be the bargain of the year.

You could easily spend more on a meal out or a crappy motel in Bluff, CO and really have nothing to show for the expense. The gems offered by John should be considered an investment in improving yourself and your magic. The question is not whether John is worth $90 but rather are you worth the investment. Only you can decide if you are worth the sum being asked.
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Postby Ian Kendall » 01/28/13 07:08 PM

One thing to consider - for people who have not trudged through the joys of video production - is that it takes a lot of time to produce this kind of content. Leaving aside the various planning stages, it took me about four hours to produce one hour of video for the Virtual Sessions, and I had the lowest production values known to man. It's not a case of pointing your webcam at a wall and clicking 'make a video'.
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Postby mrgoat » 01/28/13 07:20 PM

Ian Kendall wrote:One thing to consider - for people who have not trudged through the joys of video production - is that it takes a lot of time to produce this kind of content. Leaving aside the various planning stages, it took me about four hours to produce one hour of video for the Virtual Sessions, and I had the lowest production values known to man. It's not a case of pointing your webcam at a wall and clicking 'make a video'.



Probably quicker, cheaper and easier than producing a decent book through.

I make a few videos, and now I know how to use the software, it's certainly easier and faster than laying out a magazine. I've not done a book, so am using the mag as the merest comparison. You've done both now, what do you think? (And I'm not counting the time it takes you to select papyrus as a font).
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Postby Dustin Stinett » 01/28/13 07:27 PM

Chas Nigh wrote:Why not market as an eBook at a decent price. I've got a huge investment in my library and I think that $90.00 in this economy is a bit steep for 12 effects with all due respect to John.


w

John is not just teaching a trick a month. It is far more than that. What he is doing is giving lessons in magic. The trickwhile certainly worthwhileis the object used for that lesson. What one learns, assuming the student pays attention, can be applied to his/her magic in general.
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Postby mrgoat » 01/28/13 07:36 PM

I really want to buy this, but refuse to buy into the drm and silly player.
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Postby Ian Kendall » 01/28/13 07:50 PM

Without a doubt it takes longer to produce a text based lesson; my point was that video is not the 'click two buttons and you're done' option. At least, not when it's done well...

You know what? I like Comic Sans as well. Yah boo!
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Postby Chas Nigh » 01/28/13 11:51 PM

Just to clarify my position, I've purchased all of John's books wherein I found a treasure trove of effects and intelligent advice. I will probably go for this one as I love the Mora Ball Trick and never really felt I was doing it justice.
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Postby John Carney » 02/16/13 01:48 PM

The February installment is up and ready for viewing:
The Vanishing Birdcage Re-imagined
Several methods for the classic trick, with, and without a pull!
A lesson itself on problem solving and the pursuit of better methods and effects.
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Postby Donal Chayce » 02/16/13 04:11 PM

FWIW, I watched John do a one-handed version of the birdcage last week as part of his set in the Magic Castle's Palace of Mystery. Not surprisingly, it brought forth gasps of amazement from a jaded Castle audience.
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Postby sieler » 05/02/13 09:12 PM

Re: revizzit

It's a DRM program, that has a *LOT* of shortcomings (email me for a list of a dozen or two). The biggest are (a) not suitable for vision impaired users (a PDF with text can be read to a user), not searchable, and keyboard navigation keys don't work. In generaly, *any* proprietary DRM mechanism is a Bad Idea for a large number of reasons.

I suggest PDFs ... they work well, are supported by a *large* number of applications on many platforms, and are likely to be accessible in 10 to 20 years. I'm impressed with the technology Vanishing Inc uses ... their "Magic inMind" was ready for download apparently instantly, with the bottom of every page tagged with my name.

I suspect Revizzit might be great for video material, and their purchase sync seems very quick.
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Postby erdnasephile » 05/02/13 10:11 PM

The March installment (Re: Fundamentals) is up and ready to view. Almost 2 hours of the real work! As John says: "the differences between the accomplished professional and the hack".

Also, I can verify that Carney 2013 and Real Secrets can coexist on one Revizzit account if you use the same email for each. (Revizzit's customer service continues to be amazingly good.)
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Postby Dustin Stinett » 05/03/13 12:33 AM

The April installment, on Eddie Fechter's "8 to 12," is up. It's only a half an hour, but there is a technique (not taught in Fechter's original) worth the effort. GREAT stuff.

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Postby John Carney » 05/03/13 04:13 PM

Thanks for the kind words Dustin, and all you other fellows.

When I first decided to do this, I had no idea how long each session would last..... I would simply say everything that I felt needed to be said, and leave out all the padding. I expected about 25 minutes for each.

As it turned out, the first one was 50 minutes, the next an hour, and the third 2 hours!... So "only" 30 minutes for the fourth one might seem like a let down to some, instead of realizing they are actually getting an extra 2 hours from the other installments .... I hope my subscribers can view it as the valuable information it is, and not just paying by the minute.

If you are not interested in birdcages, balls, or cards, there is still plenty of valuable information that will apply to anything you do... creating, technique, misdirection, problem solving, and a list of other lessons.

I do these videos as I go.... gathering information and organizing, and finally shooting it the same month it is released. There are various reasons for doing it this way..... it would be impossible, if not only difficult, to do them all at once.

I don't give private lessons, but if I did, it would be at least $100-150 an hour..... I'm offering nearly 8-10 hours of instruction for $90..... if you never watched it more than once, I feel you will have gotten a bargain for your money.... I'm doing my best to make this a useful and valuable tool for my subscribers, not just a "product."

Remember, you will always have access to the lessons (I guarantee it), and you own it..... the idea of DVDs and "downloads" are comfortable for people, but with clouds and information storage, they are becoming as outdated as the floppy disk.... and there are too many selfish, unscrupulous people stealing and posting our videos to make this profitable ... without a certain margin of control and profit, the motivation is removed for any worthwhile contributions from qualified magic instructors.

I think if you give it a try, you will be happy you did.

more info here:
http://www.carneymagic.com/store_books.html

thanks
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Postby Tom Stone » 05/03/13 06:32 PM

I really like this project! The February installment about the Birdcage was more exciting than the recent John Carter movie, and the March installment was so packed with information that it will take several viewings just to remember the contents.

The proprietary video player has been mentioned, and yes, it is a PITA to some degree - but it should be clarified that it isn't some obscure software, but is built on Adobe AIR technology - so the text content is mainly standard HTML and video is handled by Adobe Flash Player. Technology that all have good support and that is well known. Many of you probably already have other AIR programs on your desktops, and this will just be another one. The content is good enough to merit the special app.

Here's some other examples of AIR applications:
http://www.technoread.net/graphic-desig ... -designers
http://windows.appstorm.net/roundups/8- ... hould-try/
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Postby John Carney » 05/16/13 09:19 PM

The May installment is up and ready to view. This month :
Four Gone.
A pure manipulative routine that may be done under intimate conditions.

Four Aces are produced from the air, and bare handedly vanished. They then reappear in four different pockets.

Elements of Ross Bertram's Five Zero Five, Cliff Green's Phoenix Aces and Sorcerer's Apprentice, and lots of other great ideas for parlor/stage card magic.

John
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Postby John Carney » 06/10/13 01:51 AM

CARNEY 2013 Now Available on iPad !

You now have the option to get CARNEY 2013 using the
Revizzit Mobile App for iPad!
http://revizzit.com/ipad
(sorry, no Android devices yet).

Download the App then buy the iPad version here:
http://www.carneymagic.com/store_books.html

And thanks for all the wonderful comments!
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