Question about The Dai Vernon Cups and Balls please

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Postby erdnasephile » 01/16/13 01:26 AM

I've been studying the description of the Dai Vernon Cups and Balls in the Dai Vernon Book of Magic (DVBOM) as well as viewing the sequence on the cups and balls on the Revelations DVDs, and had a couple of questions please.

1. When did Vernon incorporate the multiple Miller Move sequence into his cups and balls routine? (It's absent in the DVBOM description, but appears on the DVD). Does this sequence appear in any written description of Vernon's routine?

2. Is the standalone booklet, "The Dai Vernon Cups and Balls", exactly the same as the description of the routine in the DVBOM?

3. Is it true that Dai Vernon had his cups engraved so they wouldn't reflect palmed balls as his hand passed in front of the cups?

Many thanks!
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Postby Dustin Stinett » 01/16/13 02:00 AM

The Miller piece is in the Supreme(?) booklet (but the entire introduction from DVBOM is missing).

To the best of my knowledge, and based on the story detailed by Bill Taylor about his Iranian cups, Vernon got those engraved cups because he could.
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Postby erdnasephile » 01/16/13 02:06 AM

Hi, Dustin:

Thanks for your post.

Just to clarify: I did find a description of the Miller move in the DVBOM, but not the sequence of using multiple Miller moves in a row to end up with 3 balls perched on the bottom cup.(See sequence at 3:10 on this video): http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... e2tyFK8WA0

Is that sequence in the routine described in the Supreme booklet or is it just a description of the Miller move itself?

Thanks!
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Postby Dustin Stinett » 01/16/13 02:35 AM

No, the Miller Move described in the booklet and in Chapter 19 of DVBOM is the same, but is not what is in the video.
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Postby erdnasephile » 01/16/13 10:34 AM

Thanks, Dustin--so it sounds like there's no point in hunting down the separate booklet to read if I already have the DVBOM.

My goal this year is to study and perform the original routine.

The resources I'm using to get insight into the original routine are: DVBOM, Revelations DVD, the Magic Circus Video, The Bob White DVD, The Johnny Thompson DVD, Ammar's Complete Cups and Balls (which I find terribly confusing).

Are there any other sources you'd recommend?
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Postby S. Tauzier » 01/16/13 10:47 AM

Weren't there two sets of those engraved cups? Dai's worn and tattered ones were later swapped with the newer set? I think i read that in Genii.
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Postby Thomas Van Aken » 01/16/13 10:48 AM

Yes.

Roberto Giobbi published an extensive analyse of Vernon's routine in his lecture notes/booklet from his Vernon's seminar. The routine as described comes (I think)from the DVBOM and does not include the multiple Miller move sequence.

Regards

Th.
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Postby erdnasephile » 01/16/13 10:56 AM

Yes--there were two sets of the Iranian cups. Persi Diaconis acquired the second, new set from the original owner and swapped the Professor for his used set. Vernon tells the story on the Revelations DVD. (It's kind of fun to watch Vernon describe banging around his famous set of cups--he treated them as tools--we treat them as relics).

Thanks, Thomas--I'll check that out-- (Giobbi also has some work on the cups and balls in "Confidences".)
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Postby El Mystico » 01/16/13 10:58 AM

I'm not a fan of the Ammar book; but I think his description of the wand spin is better than Ganson's.
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Postby Tom Gilbert » 01/16/13 11:00 AM

I think it's Persi Diaconis that has the other set.
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