Wine bottle production - Ammar, Hooser or Bob Read

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.

Postby Vraagaard » 12/20/05 02:35 PM

Dear magic firends,

I need a little advice. I love the close up wine bottle production and among a few I'm aware of Michael Ammars using a silk and a secret placement of the bootle. It's a great routine.

However, I heard a lot of good about Troy Hoosers wine bottle production and also about the Late Bob Read's bottle production. Now can anybody describe these two versions? Are they also using a Silk? How does it look from the audience perspective (I'm not asking for the method - just how these effects appear).

troy Hoosers are in Destroyers and I can see that Bob Reads effect is described in Genii Issue, April 2004 (which I don't have).

Can anybody share a little light on these routines, pros and cons?

Best regards

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Postby Guest » 12/20/05 02:49 PM

David Stone uses a bottle production, which 'might' be Reads' device. He pops a balloon to produce the bottle. It does necessitate a coat/open shirt of sorts. I don't own the device but the device that Stone uses appears very nice and facilitates and holds out the bottle very well. In place of a balloon, another covering should be used (silk, etc).

Here's a link to the trailer of his dvd, which I enjoy very much. the production may be on the trailer.
David Stone - Live

Postby Richard Kaufman » 12/20/05 03:11 PM

Bob Read's Bottle Production is by far the best version ever created, and it was described in detail in the Bob Read issue of Genii from 2004.
You don't need any kind of gimmick to hold the bottle--just stick it in your pants like Bob. :)
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Postby Dustin Stinett » 12/20/05 03:44 PM

If I loosened my belt enough to accommodate a bottle, as soon as I produced it, my pants would be down around my ankles.

Hey! Two productions for the price of one!

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Postby Bill Mullins » 12/20/05 03:49 PM

John Lovick's work on the bottle production was written up in his issue of Labyrinth -- hard to find, but worthwhile.

Michael Baker's work on it is in his lecture notes.

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Postby Joe M. Turner » 12/20/05 03:52 PM

I love doing the bottle production. I have performed the Read and Stone versions, using various covers (a balloon, a pocket square, a fountain of silks, a sheet of newspaper, etc.).

If your clothes and your, umm, physique do not produce enough friction to hold the bottle in place, you may have experienced the horror of a prepositioned bottle trying to slip down into your pantleg. Here's a tip -- turn your shirttail back upward, then safety pin it to the inside of the waistband of your pants. This pocket will keep a bottle from sliding out of position while awaiting production. It's sort of a waistband servante, but it works.

I use David Stone's gimmick on occasion and really appreciate how securely it holds the bottle. I have pondered a redesigned version that went inside the waistband, hooked over the top of the belt, and was basically a Stone gimmick in the Read position.
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Postby John Carney » 12/20/05 04:03 PM

Bob Read's routine is fantastic......and it has lots of minor effects logically leading up to the big production. It is a complete routine, as opposed to just a production. Even if you don't do it Bob's way, study it for the construction of the routine, including how he motivates the position of his hands for the steal.

I think Lynetta Welch's gimmick for a beer bottle is great! It allows for a very clever delivery into the hand. You really have to see this done to appreciate how "moveless" it looks. It fooled me! The gimmick is only part of the secret......Lynetta's handling is simple and great! ... ory_Code=A

have fun,
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Postby Guest » 12/20/05 04:41 PM

I've got Lynetta Welch's gimmick for a beer bottle, and the design is great, and constructed very well. After purchasing it and routining with it, a flaw occured to me. Why would I want to produce an empty bottle? Unless that, of course, coincides with the (hiccup) script.

Postby Joe M. Turner » 12/20/05 06:38 PM

Originally posted by John Carney:
Even if you don't do it Bob's way, study it for the construction of the routine, including how he motivates the position of his hands for the steal.
Thanks for the homework assignment and the tip!

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Postby Guest » 12/20/05 09:09 PM

Bob Read used basically use 2 diff. ways of building up to incredible misdirection when loading the bottle.

The result of what John Carney mentioned as *the construction of the routine* is exactly that misdirection, to explain it in simpler terms, the 'construction' of the routine built up to this misdirection.

I recall Fred Kaps mentioning, that Bob Read did fool him COMPLETELY twice..first when he used the coinroll-bizz (which was one way of building up for the misdirection), the other was the nose-bizz.

Bod Read did use one of the *systems* in one show and fooled FK badly, (as he fooled everybody else) and used the other *system* in the next show and equally fooled everybody renewed.

I have personally seen him doing the routine in Helsingborg/Sweden, when he lectured there, many years back, I've him also on tape ( IIRC this is a Hans Zahn/Videonics tape), where he explains his routine, I think both systems are explained there.

The description in Genii however is TOPS! and very clear and accurate.

Regarding wearing a bottle the way Bob Read does.

When you study your body (bodies are of course different, nevertheless there is a similarity in what I want to mention) there is *room* at the top of your leg where the leg 'meets' the body.

It is partly this space that is occupied with the bottom part of the bottle :D .

This is also the space that makes it possible to conceal f.ex. 3 large loads for the C&Bs in your trouserspocket, if and when your pocket is large and deep enough.

IMHO, for the final loads in the C&Bs, the trouserspocket is superiour for fetching the final loads in a stand-up situation, then f.ex. the backpocket or worst, the jacketpocket, but I know, both Dai Vernon and Michael Ammar did use these pocket for the final loads.

Michael Skinner used them too, nevertheless I KNOW, the trouserspocket works very well for these loads, amongst others, Joachim Solberg from DK has proven so for many years.. :)
Vraagaard should know this :)

Not to get off topic, back to the bottleproduction.

I too have seen David Stone using the *Splash*-gimmick (I think I recall that is its name) for the bottleproduction and it -no doubt- works very well, however when using the Splash-gimmick, the bottle has to be slightly drawn out/upwards more, then when using the Bod Read method, where the bottle practically gets delivered automatically into the hand, without almost any upwards movement in the first place.

That is due to the mentioned technical *Construction of the routine* the *stance*/altering of the position of the weight of the body,e.g. his *hip*- movement, which is what Bod Read explaines so well..

I haven't checked back in the description in Genii nor the tapes, but that is as I recall..

If one is unsecure, I think the shirtidea mentioned works well or even a kind of inside cloth topit attached inside the trousers to prevent the bottle from sliding down, but Bob Read did it the simple way, one can call that 'impromptu' and it is mentioned at many places, he also did fool the heck out of Derek Dingle when he did it for him late night outdoors at a parking place practically impromptu....

I recall this too is mentioned in that issue of Genii !

No doubt, the Read method is best and has stood the test of time being performed by him almost constantly throughout many years.

It was impossible to detect him loading the bottle under the large handkerchief, IF you didn't know beforehand/having seen him explaining the routine beforehand, and as mentioned by John Carney, the construction of the routine is beautiful, everything is motivated and this goes for the use of the handkerchief especially!

He started with the simple bit of the upwards pointing corner of the handkerchief moved around whilst an invisible hair was attached aso., everything felt in place naturally in his routine..

I also would recommend to anybody wanting to do the bottleproduction to do it 'his' way, there is none better!

I too, many years back, looked out for some 'noses', as the nose-bit is far more entertaining and funny then the coinroll-bizz, but never pulled myself together to do the routine.

Good luck to you Vraagaard :) , that routine is a reputationmaker!

I suddenly recall, it was at the *Ramsay Reunion* in the UK, way back -I got an invitation from Fred Robinson to attend, but unfortunately couldn't be there and I still regret that :( - that Fred Kaps mentioned what I mentioned above, that Bob Read did fool him twice with the bottle production.

This actually can be heared on the *Trick a tape* tapes, released by Vic Pinto, re the Ramsay Reunion..
I bought them when they got released, to at least have some impression what happen at that convention.
It also was the first time David Roth did visit the UK and was a huge success.

To not get misunderstood what I mentioned above, the dception is due to the construction of the complete routine -as John Carney already mentioned- where the production of the winebottle is the final climax, it is a whole, complete littel act that makes the whole thing so deceptive..
The production simply is indetectable and comes as a big shock and surprise, when handled the way Bob Read does!

I wonder, if anybody can achieve the same effect, because this thing simply was *Bob Read*, his personality and way of presentation, that nose-routine doesn't fit all performers, it was part of Bob Reads 'style', he was incredibly FUNNY, 'the intelligent way!!...


PS. Also I never have done the routine, I have played with wearing the bottle as Bob did and I didn't have any problems re it would slide down.

The 'trick' might be to have your belt as tight as you normally have it and THEN insert the bottle, your body normally will give/make space, unless one has a very large stomach :D there should be no problem.

Note also, that Bob even did walk around with the bottle in place for quite some time when being 'just' out having fun with friends, being in a restaurant/bar, but normally on a set performance just did load the bottle before his set.

The weight of the bottle also plays a part re sliding down, but again Bob Read did use whatever bottle was available, when giving a set perfomance however, one could probably choose a bottle that doesn't weight too much, maybe in a set performance one could even use an empty red wine bottle that looked like being 'filled' and normal, having the capsul on the top aso.

Just an idea, though I would use a normal filled bottle, as the performance normally isn't a stage performance but done at rather close range to the specs and they might want to touch the bottle or you even might give it out as a present to the host.

And one more thing comes to mind.
Bob Read mostly did wear a suit with 2 rows of buttons (don't know right now what a such is called in 'english'), but in danish (for Vraagaard) it is a 2 rkkers blazer, there also exists blazers with just one row of buttons, but the one he used is the one overlapping and when buttoned (or unbuttoned) has 2 vertical rows of buttons.

A such one ensures, when open, that the bottle is well hidden under all normal working conditions.

Using another normal, one button suit, one has to be more carefull re moving.

Also the one mentioned does hide the bottle better due to having much more 'cloth' to cover the shape of the bottle..

I think some of the drawings in the Genii article does show Bob wearing what I described..

Postby Vraagaard » 12/21/05 01:44 AM

Dear friends,

Thanks for all your kind advice. Lots of good ideas (the inside pants topit holds some opportunities)

I think I'll go for the Bob Read routine and method.

Werner - thanks for you lengthy input.

May you all have a merry christmas

Best regards

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Postby Guest » 12/21/05 02:56 AM

Vraagaard, I edited my posting and added some more thoughts and ideas at the end of it..

Merry Xmas..'God Jul', to you and your family too, keep up the 'magic'..


PS. I finally digged out my copy of Genii and looked through Bob Reads handling.

He DOES use an empty bottle, and so it be!
Meaning, THEN *I* would go for this too, he has worked with this for over 40 years, so he does know....this also might explain, that the risk for the bottle is falling down inside the trousers isn't that big. :)

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