Horrendous move

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mrgoat
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Horrendous move

Postby mrgoat » November 29th, 2012, 6:34 pm

Nice idea to have a signed card appear in a (albeit odd looking) plastic key fob. But good god, the 'move' is so, so, so horrible. (As is the promo video, but aren't they all).

http://youtu.be/Yg23UIydGxI

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Re: Horrendous move

Postby Richard Kaufman » November 29th, 2012, 6:58 pm

The moment when he yanks off the plastic exterior cover seems contrived every time--why do you have to close your fingers completely around it? Just grab it between thumb and fingertips and pull it off. That's the natural thing to do.

It looks better the very last time starting at 2:32 on the video. Then it suddenly looks much better because his right fingers are not squeezed tight and he immediately shows the empty cover he just removed by turning over his right hand. I didn't see him do that anywhere else in the video.
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Re: Horrendous move

Postby IrishMagicNews » November 29th, 2012, 7:05 pm

mrgoat wrote: the 'move' is so, so, so horrible.


That is an understatement.
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Re: Horrendous move

Postby mrgoat » November 30th, 2012, 4:07 am

Richard Kaufman wrote:It looks better the very last time starting at 2:32 on the video. Then it suddenly looks much better because his right fingers are not squeezed tight and he immediately shows the empty cover he just removed by turning over his right hand. I didn't see him do that anywhere else in the video.


I bet you 10 that is impossible to do with the thing in real life and was shot to dupe people into buying it. If the method is what I think it is, then you can't show the hand like that...

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Re: Horrendous move

Postby Magic Fred » November 30th, 2012, 4:58 am

mrgoat wrote:
Richard Kaufman wrote:It looks better the very last time starting at 2:32 on the video. Then it suddenly looks much better because his right fingers are not squeezed tight and he immediately shows the empty cover he just removed by turning over his right hand. I didn't see him do that anywhere else in the video.


I bet you 10 that is impossible to do with the thing in real life and was shot to dupe people into buying it. If the method is what I think it is, then you can't show the hand like that...


If true, this is going to be a very big deal. I can even see them being forced off the interwebs again.

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Re: Horrendous move

Postby mrgoat » November 30th, 2012, 7:21 am

Magic Fred wrote:
mrgoat wrote:
Richard Kaufman wrote:It looks better the very last time starting at 2:32 on the video. Then it suddenly looks much better because his right fingers are not squeezed tight and he immediately shows the empty cover he just removed by turning over his right hand. I didn't see him do that anywhere else in the video.


I bet you 10 that is impossible to do with the thing in real life and was shot to dupe people into buying it. If the method is what I think it is, then you can't show the hand like that...


If true, this is going to be a very big deal. I can even see them being forced off the interwebs again.


I've never been awfully good at working out tricks, but surely, with this one, you can't flash your hand empty at the end...

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Re: Horrendous move

Postby Tom Moore » November 30th, 2012, 7:24 am

Their get-around that would be that you can present it with that turnover flash.... it would just require you to be sat at a table, or have a topit, or be good at sl**ving. So technically the video isn't wrong; it's just not entirely right either.
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Re: Horrendous move

Postby Magic Fred » November 30th, 2012, 7:47 am

Tom Moore wrote:Their get-around that would be that you can present it with that turnover flash.... it would just require you to be sat at a table, or have a topit, or be good at sl**ving. So technically the video isn't wrong; it's just not entirely right either.


Which is exactly the kind of dodge they have criticized in their reviews.

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Re: Horrendous move

Postby mrgoat » November 30th, 2012, 7:57 am

Tom Moore wrote:Their get-around that would be that you can present it with that turnover flash.... it would just require you to be sat at a table, or have a topit, or be good at sl**ving. So technically the video isn't wrong; it's just not entirely right either.


If that is what is going on, and I think it is, then I will be starting a campaign to get as many magi as possible to report them to the advertising standards authority in the UK.

It's simply illegal here to do misleading ads.

And they aren't exactly popular after their last debacle.

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Re: Horrendous move

Postby Ian Kendall » November 30th, 2012, 10:34 am

Hmm. I've watched the video offline, and I'm not convinced that the moves after 2:33 involve any switch. I think he's just mimicking the action, and taking out the same card. Ditto in the car park segment.

Having said that, I can think of at least one way that you could do this and show the hands empty afterwards, without a ditch.

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Re: Horrendous move

Postby Tom Moore » November 30th, 2012, 10:39 am

Ian - "Actual Magic" doesn't count :-p
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Re: Horrendous move

Postby Ian Kendall » November 30th, 2012, 10:48 am

Nope. I've got a fairly doable method, I think.

I'm not going to spend any effort developing it, but it's based on existing methods, so it should work...

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Re: Horrendous move

Postby Ian Kendall » November 30th, 2012, 11:08 am

Well, after another watch I think I have a better idea of the method (or part of it anyway) and I think that, with the correct blocking, it would be possible to show the fob empty after it is opened.

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Re: Horrendous move

Postby BlaiseCarlisle » November 30th, 2012, 12:03 pm

I think if he took it off about 50% more slowly, it would help a lot. I must admit I've done my share of very bad moves, but I would never consider uploading them to youtube.

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Re: Horrendous move

Postby Elwood » December 4th, 2012, 4:40 pm

It reminds me of that coin in a tic tax box trick, and I imagine that the actual method isn't a million miles removed.

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Re: Horrendous move

Postby Jonathan Townsend » December 4th, 2012, 5:37 pm

? What's with an open grab into fingerpalm followed by showing something in your hand still in that the position?

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Re: Horrendous move

Postby Tom Pilling » December 5th, 2012, 6:19 am

The mind boggles.

I don't just hate the 'move', I hated the entire video. What's with driving a sports car very slowly in a multi storey car park? I think, perhaps, someone involved wanted to show off their tart's handbag of a motorcar... Underwhelmed, to say the least.

Any thoughts on the "lucky card" idea? My reaction was almost visceral.

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Re: Horrendous move

Postby erdnasephile » December 5th, 2012, 10:48 am

I agree with Ian: I'm pretty sure there were no tricky edits to show the fob top empty after the reveal. I suspect the key part that's left out of the video is what happens to "the" fob after the lucky card is initially shown.

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Re: Horrendous move

Postby Pete McCabe » December 5th, 2012, 3:08 pm

Just wait for Regal's card to clear-plastic cardbox. It's really good.

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Re: Horrendous move

Postby erdnasephile » December 15th, 2012, 11:43 pm

Here's an interesting use of that principle...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ALSMAGIC-Presen ... 1041587445?

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Re: Horrendous move

Postby Tom Gagnon » December 16th, 2012, 7:20 pm

The Coin in Lighter effect is actually the creation of Bob Chesbro--Verne Chesbro's nephew.

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Re: Horrendous move

Postby Richard Kaufman » December 16th, 2012, 7:35 pm

Used to look great when Bob Chesbro did it. Saw it at Fechter's, I think.
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Re: Horrendous move

Postby Richard Kaufman » December 16th, 2012, 8:19 pm

I just watched David Penn perform FOB on his Wizard review or whatever it's called with Craig Petty. The camera work bordered on the scandalous, with the performer's hands off camera during most of the dirty work.

It's quite obvious to me that the folded card is behind the fob, and after you do that really awkward thing to remove the plastic cover (really, does anyone wrap their hand completely around something in that way? Yes, primates do, but not humans!) he then shows the interior of his right hand. Actually he did this in the video they showed, but not in his performance at that moment.

But he's just doing DeLand's old Fadeaway Card at that moment, with a bit of flesh-colored paper printed to look like fingers on the backside of the card that's still in the FOB. That's my guess. Who wraps their hand completely around something to pull off a case unless you've got to completely hide the front?
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Re: Horrendous move

Postby mrgoat » December 17th, 2012, 4:20 am

Richard Kaufman wrote:I just watched David Penn perform FOB on his Wizard review or whatever it's called with Craig Petty. The camera work bordered on the scandalous, with the performer's hands off camera during most of the dirty work.


How these two idiots survived the Wayne Dobson scandal is beyond me.

Now back releasing [censored] like this to the unsuspecting public...

It's horrible.

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Re: Horrendous move

Postby Tom Stone » December 17th, 2012, 7:34 am

Richard Kaufman wrote:I just watched David Penn perform FOB on his Wizard review or whatever it's called with Craig Petty. The camera work bordered on the scandalous, with the performer's hands off camera during most of the dirty work.

That's how they usually shoot the items they review. I think it is to avoid having the methods picked apart and posted in the comments.

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Re: Horrendous move

Postby Doomo » December 18th, 2012, 7:37 am

Tom Stone wrote:
Richard Kaufman wrote:I just watched David Penn perform FOB on his Wizard review or whatever it's called with Craig Petty. The camera work bordered on the scandalous, with the performer's hands off camera during most of the dirty work.

That's how they usually shoot the items they review. I think it is to avoid having the methods picked apart and posted in the comments.


Sorry Tom, I feel that deceptive demo vids are just that. They are made to conceal just how weak most effects are. I have made quite a few demo vids for my own products. They are without exception single camera head on no tricky editing etc. It can be done. But as most commercially released effects are rather slapdash items released simply to hack a few dollars out of the buying public...What can ya expect. I send my demo vids around to a group of people whose opinions I respect because they tell me when something works or not and why.
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Re: Horrendous move

Postby mrgoat » December 18th, 2012, 7:59 am

Tom Stone wrote:
Richard Kaufman wrote:I just watched David Penn perform FOB on his Wizard review or whatever it's called with Craig Petty. The camera work bordered on the scandalous, with the performer's hands off camera during most of the dirty work.

That's how they usually shoot the items they review. I think it is to avoid having the methods picked apart and posted in the comments.


I think it's because they are trying to deceive people.

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Re: Horrendous move

Postby erdnasephile » December 18th, 2012, 10:33 am

To his credit, on the video, Penn does try to address the criticism of the awkward appearing reveal.

At 19:50 on the review, there is a brief clip of a more interesting handling of the gimmick to make the card flash appear in the clear holder.

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Re: Horrendous move

Postby Bob Farmer » December 18th, 2012, 2:36 pm

A card always in view turns out to be the signed selection. That's a good trick. There are plenty of methods for accomplishing this that are much better than the trick under discussion.

Here's a better one: a card in view with a red back, turns out to be the signed selection from a blue deck. That's an even better effect. Check out, "The Magic Red Card of Mystery," in Pete McCabe's book, SCRIPTING MAGIC.


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