Repeated forcing of a card

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.

Postby Guest » 07/31/01 08:07 PM

The other day, I started about ways to force a card, and then I started thinking about how much I hate that trick where a magician constantly forces the same card over and over to a spectator. It's been featured on 2 videos that I've seen (Greg Wilson's Card Stunts & Paul Green Classic Force Video) and I've also seen magicians do it to my discontent.

Maybe it's the presentation that bothers me. From a theoretical stand point, it seems like a great trick, a person keeps choosing the same card, unconsciously. It's probably that Jerry Andrus voice inside all of us that makes me think that it's wrong to blame the spectator for being unable to select a different card.

Am I one of a few that hates seeing this trick done? What our your thoughts on it? Do you guys use it in performances?
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Postby HighQ » 07/31/01 08:19 PM

Only if I know the person well, like a friend or family, then I use a tarot deck and repeatedly force the death card on them. I only do this in joking manner, and would not try it on a stranger. It actually gets lots of laughs.
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Postby Brian Marks » 07/31/01 08:50 PM

the point of this trick is fun for both sides of the trick. dont overanalyze it because the audience know your somehow forcing the card on them and they dont know how. If the performer is relaxed and does this sort of toungue and cheek the audience will have fun and enjoy it
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Postby Guest » 08/01/01 07:20 AM

Actually it can be very strong if it is done properly. The fact that the spectator feels confident that they have a free selection but keeps picking the same card can be quite an amazing feat.
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Postby Rafael Benatar » 08/01/01 04:38 PM

Neither for nor against. I agree with Brian. If you think of it, it's the most direct way to do "Open Prediction", which is basically an announced force.
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Postby Jeff Haas » 08/01/01 05:36 PM

I think repeatedly forcing the same card can weaken the rest of your performance. What the repeated force tells the audience is that, no matter how fair things look, you can always make them take whatever card you want.

After that, finding a selected card doesn't seem as amazing.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 08/01/01 09:25 PM

I feel compelled to repeat a story I've told in print at least once:
When I was 8 years old, my father took me to Al Flosso's shop on 34th street in New York city. Flosso forced the Eight of Diamonds on me MANY MANY times in a row. I was flabbergasted. So was everyone else in the shop who was watching.
I leave the moral of the story to your interpretation. :)
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Postby Gerald Deutsch » 08/01/01 10:03 PM

I do the repeated forcing of a card, not to show how smart I am, but as an effect using "perverse magic" (which fits my style). "Perverse magic" is where the magic goes off on it's own much to the chagrin of the magician.

I ask a spectator to take any card except the 4S and of course, that's what he takes - several times. Then when he finally takes another card I keep finding the 4S. Finally, I remove the 4S from the deck and then the entire deck vanishes and I quit.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 08/01/01 10:08 PM

Jerry,
That sounds like a great effect!
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Postby Guest » 08/02/01 07:59 PM

I dont do the effect myself but I have seen Greg Wilson perform it live in blackpool. He said he rarley does the effect if he is performing any other card tricks as part of his show. He doesnt want a spec to realise that it is possible to force a card but the effect itself looks great.
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Postby Paul Green » 08/02/01 09:39 PM

Hi,

I guess I will add my two cents on this topic.

The consistent selection force is one that I do use in my own work. I find that the reactions from my audiences is just great. I try to have fun with the audience. I do not try to "lord it over" the spectator that never seems to be able to find any other card aside from the "pesky" one.

I try to act as exasparated as the spectator because I want to go on to another trick. The decision to perform this type of trick comes not from a position of superiority. It is one of those peculiar things that happen when Magicians are around.

I also think that my audiences realize that, as a Magician, I am able to control the positions of the cards. Entertaining them while I am doing it is my aim.

Keep thinking and performing. Find your own style and grace.

Regards,

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Postby Guest » 08/11/01 10:34 AM

Well, i feel that i, personally don't like performing this type of repeated trick, where the same thing keeps happening but other people tend to love it?
I use the classic force via Paul Green's Classic force video, and ill tell you a story about first using it..

I was in a bar with my dad in London, the kind where kidz are allowed (im 15), and his mates heard that i am a performer (not a magician cus i only perform tricks and sleight of hand, not magic), so they asked me to do tricks for them.
I was stuck as i had no props but i am a sleight man so i done some coin stuff and lots of impromptu stuff.
Anyway.. to get to the point..
I shwed this guy an ambitious card routine (Daryl's kinda material) and he looked and just said it was amazing etc, but he got bored after the cardkept jumping to the top, and he + his friends told me they like card tricks that have a flashy, quick and amazing appearance, so i decided to try out my classic force, especially when he told me of this man once asking him to pick a card and the man named it straight away etc, so i successfully performed the classic force, named his card, and this guy went wild, he just started shouting abuse, and ran around the bar, i then offered to repeat the effect, and got him to pick a different card, but it was the same card, and i managed to keep this up, even with him choosing the top card.

The point of that is, that, the trick is funny, wierd, quick (not long and boring), easy to understand, and flashy in a way, although i dont even enjoy performing it.

I think this should be done more as a joke, and not an actual effect, because alot of forces can easily go wrong, especially the classic force, if you get the wrong spectators.

That is my opinion, although i would keep forces to when i 'need' them, in most performances, if you know what i mean.
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