Deleted?

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.
Harry Lorayne
Posts: 983
Joined: January 22nd, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: NY

Deleted?

Postby Harry Lorayne » July 16th, 2012, 5:22 pm

Interesting - not a problem, but - that's the fastest I've seen a topic deleted. I was responding to a back-stabbing post by Mr. Goat, and it all disappeared. Too bad; why Richard? Shouldn't responses to back-stabbing remarks be allowed? As long as no dirty words are used? Too bad also because makes it all much more interesting. Oh well...guess we have let the back-stabbers get away with it. HL.

User avatar
AJM
Posts: 1008
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Deleted?

Postby AJM » July 16th, 2012, 5:30 pm

It has not been the first time recently with regard to certain posters and certain posts, Harry - not quite sure what's going on in the background.

All very curious indeed.

Andrew
Corner-boy Begrudger

Harry Lorayne
Posts: 983
Joined: January 22nd, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: NY

Re: Deleted?

Postby Harry Lorayne » July 16th, 2012, 5:34 pm

It is, Andrew. Wish someone would bring us up to date. I like to respond when someone "back stabs", but if I can't - I see a problem. I don't think people like the one I tried to respond to should be allowed to "get away with it." My opinion - but I thought that was what forums were all about. I tend to doubt that Richie (Kaufman) was responsible for that deletion. I've loved him since he was 14 - he wouldn't do that to me!!

User avatar
Richard Kaufman
Posts: 22903
Joined: July 18th, 2001, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Theodore DeLand
Location: Washington DC
Contact:

Re: Deleted?

Postby Richard Kaufman » July 16th, 2012, 7:09 pm

I've been out all day so I have no idea what the exchange was about. Perhaps the moderator who did the deletions will email as to the nature of the exchange.
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine

Harry Lorayne
Posts: 983
Joined: January 22nd, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: NY

Re: Deleted?

Postby Harry Lorayne » July 16th, 2012, 7:40 pm

Boy! I AM a lousy computer person, but I don't know how this happened. I came into the forum and saw your remarks, Richie (I believe backing me up) and just started to read them when I had to jump away for a moment to look something up on computer for my wife. Came back, and I can't find it! What did I do wrong? How can I find that post? H.

Harry Lorayne
Posts: 983
Joined: January 22nd, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: NY

Re: Deleted?

Postby Harry Lorayne » July 16th, 2012, 7:45 pm

Or...perhaps the moderator deleted YOUR post?! (Because I know I saw it fleetingly - now I don't!

Harry Lorayne
Posts: 983
Joined: January 22nd, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: NY

Re: Deleted?

Postby Harry Lorayne » July 16th, 2012, 8:53 pm

Or...I'm just going crazy and only THOUGHT I saw Richard's post telling Mr. Goat to, sort of, shove it!! I just imagined it.

Jim Maloney
Posts: 708
Joined: July 23rd, 2001, 12:00 pm
Location: Central New Jersey
Contact:

Re: Deleted?

Postby Jim Maloney » July 16th, 2012, 10:34 pm

Looks like there was some stuff cleaned up here?
Books and Magazines for sale -- more than 200 items (Last updated January 10th, 2014. Link goes to public Google Doc.)

Harry Lorayne
Posts: 983
Joined: January 22nd, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: NY

Re: Deleted?

Postby Harry Lorayne » July 16th, 2012, 11:47 pm

Okay, Jim, thanks. I really don't understand it - why isn't that here? But no matter. Thanks again. Best - Harry L. (May I copy/paste it here?)

User avatar
mrgoat
Posts: 4257
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Brighton, UK
Contact:

Re: Deleted?

Postby mrgoat » July 17th, 2012, 6:02 am

Harry Lorayne wrote: I really don't understand it - why isn't that here?


Because the owner of the board didn't want it on his site so he deleted it.


Damian

Harry Lorayne
Posts: 983
Joined: January 22nd, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: NY

Re: Deleted?

Postby Harry Lorayne » July 17th, 2012, 9:30 am

Okay; it's his call. But...

Goat: Most people learned the Faro Shuffle from Close-Up Card Magic. Harry's books have also consistently contained many tricks with Faro Shuffles for decades. His posts were entirely appropriate, so it was the wrong place to poke your finger.

User avatar
Richard Kaufman
Posts: 22903
Joined: July 18th, 2001, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Theodore DeLand
Location: Washington DC
Contact:

Re: Deleted?

Postby Richard Kaufman » July 17th, 2012, 9:41 am

Boys/Gents/Friends: STOP please.

Harry: it might be more helpful to the poster of the original thread if you could cite a few specific examples of exactly which tricks using the Faro Shuffle you consider among the best which have appeared in your books, and exactly which books they have appeared in.
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine

Harry Lorayne
Posts: 983
Joined: January 22nd, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: NY

Re: Deleted?

Postby Harry Lorayne » July 17th, 2012, 12:44 pm

Wow; quite a job. Going a bit my memory and a bit by flipping through pages...
Fourtitude, The Inseperable Four and Favorite Aces & Kings in THE CLASSIC COLLECTION, Vol. 1.

Half A Faro Onward, Faro Quickie & Follow-Up, Soell Mell, Combination Aces, Tally-Ho Detector - and more - in THE CLASSIC COLLECTION, Vol. 2.

Would You Believe In Mindreading?, Without a Clue, Simple Lie Detector - in THE CLASSIC COLLECTION, Vol. 3.

Half-Faro Glimpse, Faro Throw-Off, Easy Slider, Mixed-Up Poker, "Unshuffled" - in BEST OF FRIENDS, Vol. 1.

Match Game, Computer Style - BEST OF FRIENDS, Vol. 2.

A Pain In The Neck, Easy Prediction, Pysychic Cards, Name That Card - in BEST OF FRIENDS, Vol. 3.

Faro Based Red/Black Shuffle - SPECIAL EFFECTS.

The Magic Bullet, Miracle Multiple Peek - THE CARD CLASSICS OF KEN KRENZEL.

One-Hand Table Faro, Faro Lap, In/Out Possibility - DOUG EDWARDS PACKS A WALLOP.

And, Lord knows how may faro-based items are in the 20 years of APOCALYPSE. Earthly Powers (back in 1988) is among my top ten impromptu card routines of all time.

User avatar
Brad Jeffers
Posts: 725
Joined: April 11th, 2008, 5:52 pm
Location: Savannah, GA

Re: Deleted?

Postby Brad Jeffers » July 17th, 2012, 4:29 pm

And one of my favorites ... Vernon's Aces - CLOSE-UP CARD MAGIC.

Harry Lorayne
Posts: 983
Joined: January 22nd, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: NY

Re: Deleted?

Postby Harry Lorayne » July 17th, 2012, 4:33 pm

Of course. I omitted quite a few really good ones.

User avatar
Richard Kaufman
Posts: 22903
Joined: July 18th, 2001, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Theodore DeLand
Location: Washington DC
Contact:

Re: Deleted?

Postby Richard Kaufman » July 17th, 2012, 9:48 pm

Not from Harry's books, but worth learning a Faro for: LePaul's Gymnastic Aces.
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine

Harry Lorayne
Posts: 983
Joined: January 22nd, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: NY

Re: Deleted?

Postby Harry Lorayne » July 17th, 2012, 11:47 pm

Excellent effect. You know what "pushed" many into learning the faro? Paul Gertner's Unshuffled, as I listed in my post above. I also mentioned Richard Vollmer's Earthly Powers - one heck of a piece of impromptu card magic.

Ian Kendall
Posts: 2260
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Edinburgh
Contact:

Re: Deleted?

Postby Ian Kendall » July 18th, 2012, 6:15 am

I'm quite partial to Marlo's ace cutting thingy. Estimation Aces?

User avatar
erdnasephile
Posts: 2814
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm

Re: Deleted?

Postby erdnasephile » July 18th, 2012, 8:18 am

Ian: I think it's Marlo's "Miracle Ace Cutting", right?

Unshuffled is my favorite faro routine because doing multiple shuffles actually make sense in that context (and I love the great payoff.)

User avatar
mrgoat
Posts: 4257
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Brighton, UK
Contact:

Re: Deleted?

Postby mrgoat » July 18th, 2012, 8:23 am

@erdnasephile I *think* it's Estimation Aces Ian is referring to...

User avatar
Richard Kaufman
Posts: 22903
Joined: July 18th, 2001, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Theodore DeLand
Location: Washington DC
Contact:

Re: Deleted?

Postby Richard Kaufman » July 18th, 2012, 9:18 am

While the idea of using the word "Unshuffled" on the side of the deck is Paul Gertner's, the concept of having a word appear on the edges of the cards as they're squared from being Faro shuffled belongs to a Richard someone-or-other who published it in Genii much earlier (and to whom Paul gives credit).
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine

Harry Lorayne
Posts: 983
Joined: January 22nd, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: NY

Re: Deleted?

Postby Harry Lorayne » July 18th, 2012, 9:35 am

Yes; just checked my write-up of the effect in BOF, 1 and I do mention that Paul told me about the concept appearing in Genii (Charlie Miller's Magicana column) in the November 1973 issue.

Denis Behr
Posts: 299
Joined: January 18th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Munich
Contact:

Re: Deleted?

Postby Denis Behr » July 18th, 2012, 9:46 am

erdnasephile wrote:Ian: I think it's Marlo's "Miracle Ace Cutting", right?


Originally it was (modestly) named Marlo Miracle Aces.

Ian Kendall
Posts: 2260
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Edinburgh
Contact:

Re: Deleted?

Postby Ian Kendall » July 18th, 2012, 9:51 am

I suppose this is the problem with learning effects away from the source material; I never learned the correct name.

It's the 'position the aces using faros and then estimate where they are' routine (with the 'one more or one less and I would have missed' tag). Which is how I usually refer to it...

User avatar
erdnasephile
Posts: 2814
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm

Re: Deleted?

Postby erdnasephile » July 18th, 2012, 11:15 am

Denis Behr wrote:
erdnasephile wrote:Ian: I think it's Marlo's "Miracle Ace Cutting", right?


Originally it was (modestly) named Marlo Miracle Aces.


Thanks, Denis!

(That's what I get from learning it from a DVD :grin:)

User avatar
erdnasephile
Posts: 2814
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm

Re: Deleted?

Postby erdnasephile » July 18th, 2012, 11:24 am

Harry Lorayne wrote: Yes; just checked my write-up of the effect in BOF, 1 and I do mention that Paul told me about the concept appearing in Genii (Charlie Miller's Magicana column) in the November 1973 issue.


The article Harry refers to is: "A Name Revelation with Faro Shuffles" by Michael S. Ewer, M.D. It starts on the numbered page 465 of the 1973 volume of Genii (Nov issue).

Harry Lorayne
Posts: 983
Joined: January 22nd, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: NY

Re: Deleted?

Postby Harry Lorayne » July 18th, 2012, 11:58 am

Thanks. I never knew, until now, where or when the original concept appeared. Interesting though that I never heard of that in the over a quarter of a century, since publishing Paul's Unshuffled in BOF, 1. I guess you can say that his version, and my publishing it, made it "available" to cardmen all over the world. No?

User avatar
mrgoat
Posts: 4257
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Brighton, UK
Contact:

Re: Deleted?

Postby mrgoat » July 18th, 2012, 12:02 pm

At least you can correct the mistake and credit it properly in the reprint.

Harry Lorayne
Posts: 983
Joined: January 22nd, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: NY

Re: Deleted?

Postby Harry Lorayne » July 18th, 2012, 12:14 pm

Which "mistake" is that? There was no mistake - I publish credits, as usual, when I accept contributions for one of my books, as told to me by the contributor. Did that for 20 years in APOCALYPSE. (If you'd ever contributed anything, you'd know that.) The difference there is that if and when I learned more information about an item I'd published, I could publish that information in an upcoming issue. A bit different for books, unfortunately - once published, that's it. Of course, if and when I ever decide to reprint BOF 1, I sure would insert the newly-learned information. But, no "mistake" was made here.

User avatar
mrgoat
Posts: 4257
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Brighton, UK
Contact:

Re: Deleted?

Postby mrgoat » July 18th, 2012, 2:11 pm

Oh sorry, I thought you didn't know who originated the effect, and hence would have made a mistake in the book by not crediting it properly.

I must of been confused when you said "Thanks. I never knew, until now, where or when the original concept appeared."

My bad. I apologise.

BoF is great btw. Regardless of crediting being missed out.

Harry Lorayne
Posts: 983
Joined: January 22nd, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: NY

Re: Deleted?

Postby Harry Lorayne » July 18th, 2012, 2:25 pm

Again...the crediting that Paul Gertner gave me IS THERE in the book. So, if anything was "missed out" it was by Paul, not by me. I'm no historian (I leave that to the historians!) For the 20 years of APOCALYPSE Doug Edwards and the late Ken Krenzel were my "historians." Thanks for the nice words re: BOF.

User avatar
mrgoat
Posts: 4257
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Brighton, UK
Contact:

Re: Deleted?

Postby mrgoat » July 18th, 2012, 4:03 pm

Again, sorry. I thought when rk told you about the real credit, you said it was the first you'd heard about it.

I clearly made a mistake interpreting that as you meaning you had only just heard of it, my bad.

Harry Lorayne
Posts: 983
Joined: January 22nd, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: NY

Re: Deleted?

Postby Harry Lorayne » July 18th, 2012, 6:21 pm

Boy, you sure are confusing me, mrgoat which is difficult to do since I usually START confused! I'm referring to your post above - which I could understand what it is you're talking about. Guess that it's MY bad, since I'm the one who's confused.

Harry Lorayne
Posts: 983
Joined: January 22nd, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: NY

Re: Deleted?

Postby Harry Lorayne » July 18th, 2012, 6:21 pm

It will also be easier to understand if you visualize "wish" for "which" in my post above. Jeez!

User avatar
Richard Kaufman
Posts: 22903
Joined: July 18th, 2001, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Theodore DeLand
Location: Washington DC
Contact:

Re: Deleted?

Postby Richard Kaufman » July 18th, 2012, 7:47 pm

Okay, you're both confused, or not, or whatever, but that aside, let's give the original poster some more good tricks using the Faro Shuffle.

Krenzel's Gun Trick is top notch, especially the way Derek Dingle did it where he always snapped the card out so it did a boomerang spin back and he ALWAYS caught it with his free hand!
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine

User avatar
Bob Cunningham
Posts: 359
Joined: May 25th, 2008, 4:11 pm
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: Deleted?

Postby Bob Cunningham » July 18th, 2012, 9:03 pm

To steer things back to tricks with the Faro -

I do a poker demonstration using a Faro Shuffle that I think is from something I read in one of Jim Swain's books.

I let a spectator shuffle the cards. I tell the spectator that card cheating is a crime of opportunity. When the card cheat picks up the cards he might look at the discards to see if he finds anything interesting. I pick up the deck and quickly look at it. In any shuffled deck you should be able to find a pair or three of a kind or two pair. Assuming you can find a three of a kind or two pair you cut those to the top. Cull one more card to the top to fill out a full house.

I then explain that card cheats have to be able to stack the deck to deliver the winning hand to his accomplice. He must be able to do this in all kinds of company without looking out of place. In a suburban neighborhood that might be an overhand shuffle (and I demonstrate) in a European game that might involve a shuffle called the "Faro Shuffle."

Perform two Faro Shuffles and deal a four handed draw poker game (the shuffle only has to be perfect for the top 10 cards). The full house will be in the first hand. Use an overhand shuffle to run one, two or three more cards on top of this deck to put the winning hand in the second, third or fourth position.

This may not sound like much but I think you might find that layman are really quite impressed.

Harry Lorayne
Posts: 983
Joined: January 22nd, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: NY

Re: Deleted?

Postby Harry Lorayne » July 18th, 2012, 11:31 pm

Ken's The Magic Bullet will be in TCC, 4.

Doc Dixon
Posts: 216
Joined: April 16th, 2008, 1:45 pm

Re: Deleted?

Postby Doc Dixon » July 19th, 2012, 7:26 am

Please pardon the plug, but there's a version of Unshuffled called Reshuffled that resets itself. It's here: http://www.dixonmagic.com/page17/page17.html

DD

User avatar
erdnasephile
Posts: 2814
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm

Re: Deleted?

Postby erdnasephile » July 19th, 2012, 10:45 am

While we are on the subject--which side of the "how many faros are acceptable in a trick" debate are you on? Vernon (no more than two), Marlo (as many as you need to get the job done regardless of the amount), or Miller (hates those "butt shuffles").

For me, I would answer: "it depends". Unshuffled's presentation makes sense of the multiple faros, while some tricks requiring lots of faros are suspicious-looking, unmagical monstrosities.

User avatar
Richard Kaufman
Posts: 22903
Joined: July 18th, 2001, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Theodore DeLand
Location: Washington DC
Contact:

Re: Deleted?

Postby Richard Kaufman » July 19th, 2012, 3:58 pm

There's also a version of "Unshuffled" by Tenkai Matsuura that I published in MAGIC that requires NO Faro Shuffles.

To answer the other question regarding how many Faro Shuffles are acceptable, it depends on the context. If you're doing a gambling demo and can do eight Tabled Faro Shuffles in a minute or two, that might be interesting to certain audiences.

Generally, you would have to have some pretty sterling presentation to get away with more than two Faro Shuffles during a trick.
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine


Return to “Close-Up Magic”