Ammar's Complete Cups and Balls Collector's Edition available

Your doorway to those rare collectibles that everyone is searching for: books, props, posters, cards, and paper ephemera are all here for you to buy and sell.

Postby erdnasephile » 05/17/12 12:09 PM

20 of them available now: http://www.llpub.com/zenshop/index.php? ... ts_id=2836

(I'm curious how many of them get sold since that's about $60 more than street price of the normal edition (used), and now and ebook is available. Of course, collector's editions are targeted at collectors who presumably wouldn't be as interested in the other two items. I guess we'll see.)
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Postby Brad Henderson » 05/17/12 12:56 PM

I wonder if Louis is selling off his hoard of reserved collections editions. Expect that secondary market to tank if he does.
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Postby LL Publishing » 05/17/12 01:19 PM

The collector's editions of all of our titles always cost more than the regular edition and typically sell out. Erdnasephile, you're correct in that collectors are more interested in the deluxe edition because of the actual book and limited number released.

Most collectors buy the books to collect, not to resell a few months later.

And since you're curious, sales are going very well.

We would hardly describe 20 units as a "hoard". But if makes you feel good about yourself to describe it as such, then more power to you.
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Postby erdnasephile » 05/17/12 01:31 PM

Thanks for the information, LL Publishing. FWIW, I meant no disrespect with my question--I personally didn't see it as "hoarding" or nefarious in some way.

I just think it's an interesting (albeit imperfect) test case of the potential effect of ebooks on the market.
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Postby Syd » 05/17/12 01:38 PM

I have the regular edition and think it is a good book. If I had the funds to spare I would prefer the Collector's edition. Given the cost to produce a book, and especially compared to the cost of one trick DVDs for, at times, $30 I think the cost is reasonable. I would happily trade my regular edition and $60 for the Collector's edition.

Nevertheless, everyone makes purchases such as these for their own desires.

I have little doubt L&L will sell all of them.
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Postby LL Publishing » 05/17/12 02:33 PM

erdnasephile wrote:Thanks for the information, LL Publishing. FWIW, I meant no disrespect with my question--I personally didn't see it as "hoarding" or nefarious in some way.

I just think it's an interesting (albeit imperfect) test case of the potential effect of ebooks on the market.


Unfortunately there are some who think no matter what L&L Publishing does, it's nefarious. There were a limited amount of these books published. Does it matter if we sold all of them in one week 14 years ago or that it took 14 years to sell them all? It's still the same amount of books. How does making an announcement there are only 20 left turn into an accusation of "hoarding"?

Some people want to be known as truth tellers, but don't actually want to know the truth. They would rather yell out accusations from the comfort of their keyboard than pick up the phone or sending an email to anyone of us at L&L.

Real books are far from dead and there are a lot of people who will go kicking and screaming into the ebook revolution. There are so many factors that affect the value of collectibles. It used to be Cards As Weapons sold for $300 - $900. Now you can find it all over for under $100. It's the economy. Sports memorabilia, especially baseball card collecting, has taken a huge hit since 2008.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 05/17/12 02:42 PM

Some people think everything I do is nefarious!
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Postby Brad Henderson » 05/17/12 03:09 PM

When I visited Louis while working on the Ammar tapes he showed me the copies of each of the deluxe editions he had produced and referred to them as his retirement plan. He had saved multiple copies (20 looked about right) of the titles he had produced in limited numbers at that point. As I was collecting the Vernon deluxe editions at the time, they left the strongest impression on me. Of course, he destroyed that market when he decided to release a second deluxe edition of that series many years after the original had sold out and was fetching high prices on the secondary market.

Now - what word would you use to describe multiple copies of a collectors editions put away with the expressed intent of selling them at a later date - hoard? Stash?

I never used the word nefarious - you did.

I merely referenced factual information I possessed. Am I not allowed to do that, or would you prefer that information remain unknown to those you are selling to?
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Postby LL Publishing » 05/17/12 03:20 PM

Brad,

What difference does it make if the limited editions are sold years ago or today? It's still the same amount on the market, still being sold at the same price.

No company selling collectible items ever promises the value will go up. What things sell or don't sell for in a secondary market is determined by many factors. Selling these remaining 20 books does not hurt the secondary market because it's not another edition, it's the same edition that was sold when the book was first released.

And no you did not use the word nefarious, erdnasephile did, but you know very well the tone of your post was yet another slam against L&L. Certainly uncalled for.
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Postby Brad Henderson » 05/17/12 03:59 PM

Steve, you are being over sensitive and taking things personally.

Look at the two sentences I wrote. I asked if Louis was selling off his hoard of collectors editions. He had them. I saw them. It's a fair question.

I then made the accurate observation that doing so will kill the secondary market value of these books. Basic supply and demand, Steve

To explore your question, whena book sells CAN affect it's value. If I, for example, keep 20 books out of the market while they are selling for 100, and wait for the available supply to be exhausted so that the price begins to climb, releasing those held back tomes at the original price WILL have the effect of lowering the secondary market value.

Further, the more copies now in the supply stream WILL have the effect of lowering prices from then on. That's simple supply in demand.

I hope we can refrain from such needless personal attacks. It has long been established that we 'see' what we expect to see. I contend that is how you approach this and other posts I make. You seem clearly biased in your reading, hence the 'truth teller' comments.

I find it unfortunate we cannot have a discussion like adults.

So - IS Louis selling off his hoard, stash, collection (insert whatever word makes you happy) of limited editions?

Some of us may want to sell our copies before the law of supply and demand kicks in and the market possibly tanks.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 05/17/12 04:13 PM

I would say that if Louis allowed someone to see all those books, he did so in confidence (even if no direct words to the effect "Please don't say anything about this" were mentioned), not thinking that someday someone would post that information on the internet while questioning his business motives.

When you visit someone's home or office, you don't write about what you've seen on the internet. It's rude.
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Postby LL Publishing » 05/17/12 04:31 PM

If you feel you need to sell off your books, then no one is stopping you. If you want to know what Louis is doing, call Louis.

It's not an accurate statement that putting 20 books, of the original limited edition, up for sale is going to kill the secondary market. These books will be gone very soon. Show me the "secondary market" prices from a couple of days ago, before this was announced and where are they today?

Brad, in case you weren't looking for an argument, maybe you should stop and think before you post. Your original post in this thread had a negative tone and you know it did. "Hoarding" is hardly a positive or polite word and there were certainly better ways you could have phrased your post.

(And for anyone who is interested, this user name is not just used by one person. There are several of us who have access to it. I'm sure that Richard or some of the moderators can tell who is who by the IP address.

It was set up because in the past it could get confusing when either me (Steve) or Jim Sisti posted to an L&L related thread. But Louis also has access to this account as well.

This was also set up at The Cafe to be able to respond to L&L posts there. On my own I no longer post on magic forums and this account will only be used to announce L&L items or respond to L&L related topics.)
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Postby Brad Henderson » 05/17/12 04:54 PM

L&L,

Are you really suggesting that the law of supply and demand will see effect in one day? Really?

L&L, have you never seen how an auction which realizes a high price for a "rare" item manages to pull out other copies of that "rare" item from nowhere and that EVENTUALLY results in lower prices?

The reason the secondary market increases is because people are fighting over a limited number of available items. When that number increases, once more people acquire copies, the competition slows down and the prices come down.

I can appreciate loyalty to those paying you, but please don't try to convince us that basic economics ceases to hold. Likewise, how many times have we seen the reprint of a book kill the secondary market value of an item. Heck, when The Dance went into paperback, you saw sale prices of the first, hardback edition drop dramatically. It was a different binding and the numbers of the first edition didn't change. But more copies - in any form - lowers market value until those copies cease to circulate again.

L and L, As to the word "hoard", I ask - what word is the better one? We can happily use it from now on. What do you suggest?

Since I am speaking to no one in particular, but L and L in general, I think it is reasonable to ask where these 20 copies come from. Are they copies that just never sold, or were they copies that were never on the market to be sold. As someone who is a collector, and how does occasionally sell books, I have a real interest.

As you are L and L and not someone in particular I assume you are in a position to answer that. Emailing you personally seems to serve no purpose - you're L and L, this account is used to respond to L and L topics - so, here we go.



RK - I apologize if what I did came off as rude. Had I not been accused of being a liar (aka not a "truth teller") I would not have felt any need to defend my reputation. Some of us sign our own names here. If Louis feels I betrayed a confidence, I will happily apologize to him next time our paths cross. Having said that, I can't imagine any book publisher NOT keeping a hoard of their own works. Nothing nefarious about that at all. And NO WHERE did I question his business motives. NO WHERE! I have no idea why "L and L" got so upset. Projection, maybe?
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Postby mrgoat » 05/17/12 05:00 PM

Whoever L&L is needs some PR training, I'd say. Unless alienating customers is part of L&L's business plan.
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Postby LL Publishing » 05/17/12 05:39 PM

mrgoat wrote:Whoever L&L is needs some PR training, I'd say. Unless alienating customers is part of L&L's business plan.


Damien,

Your concern is touching. We appreciate it. It's a better magic world knowing you and Brad are looking out for everyone.

Brad,

All of your questions can be answered if you call Louis directly. If you don't have the number, send a pm and we'll get it to you. You're asking about a private and possibly confidential conversation between the two of you, so the two of you should discuss your concerns one on one and not on a public forum.
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Postby Brad Henderson » 05/17/12 05:48 PM

"L & L":

I am asking about the books which THE COMPANY is selling to the public. There is nothing confidential about that.

Were these collector's editions copies which were on the market and never sold (you just happen to have 20 of them, all low numbers of the limited edition), or were they held back from the sales stream? Or - was it a box of them that was misplaced and recently uncovered? That happens, too.

If these books were Louis's being offered through a private sale, then yes, you would have a point. But as per your advertisement, these are being sold through L&L. I am asking about these books, the one's L&L are publicly advertising.

So, Are you here to answer L&L related questions, or not?
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Postby Brad Henderson » 05/17/12 05:51 PM

BTW - this is what Ammar had to say about it:

SOLD OUT
Do not worry. We will be pushing for L&L to re-print more copies! Please let them know you would like to see it re-published.

"Long thought to be completely out-of-print - we have located a box of the original Deluxe Collectors Edition of the Complete Cups and Balls! These are rare Author's copies.

Authors copies from the First Printing. Signed and numbered by Michael Ammar and Adam Fleischer.

Gold foil embossed, Leather-bound, with leather slipcase. 180 pages."

http://www.ammarmagic.com/cocubadeed.html

This from Denny:

This copy is the Deluxe Collectors Edition bound in black leather and in a black slipcase. This was a very limited release and each copy is personally signed and numbered by Michael Ammar in Gold Ink.
This out of print book is highly sought after in todays magic market even in the regular edition.

http://www.dennymagic.com/products/rare ... ael-ammar/

Bill Palmer was under this impression:

I have a copy of Michael Ammar's Complete Cups and Balls book, a deluxe edition, that has been unwrapped, but has not been opened more than slightly. The book is out of print.

http://themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopi ... &forum=135


Was this product ever designated as being "sold out" by L and L? Fair question, yes?
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 05/17/12 06:27 PM

I have never kept more than a few copies of any of my books (usually 2 or 3) and in some case don't even have a deluxe edition. Ditto for Stephen Minch (though he may have been smarter than me and kept a deluxe edition of each of his publications).

We're both pretty eager to sell as much of them as possible as soon as possible in order to break even and pay the bills as soon as possible.

Since I've moved so many times, I have come across a box of books once in a while that I didn't know was in my basement, attic, storage room, or garage, and those have been sold here. But those weren't purposefully kept so they would increase in value.

If Louis had the foresight to hold back some copies of each book, he has more self control (and evidentally fewer bills to pay) than me! :)
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Postby Brad Henderson » 05/17/12 06:36 PM

Nothing wrong with saving a couple for yourself. But when a COMPANY begins selling books apparently thought to be 'long sold out' - especially a book whose value is intrinsically related to it's restricted rarity, a book whose secondary market value HAS increased because of said unavailability, I think it is reasonable to ask where they come from.

The increased availability of volumes 'on the market' will impact current price valuation. As someone who bought deluxe editions because of their potential secondary market value, concern is warranted and reasonable.
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Postby LL Publishing » 05/17/12 07:17 PM

Brad,

I couldn't tell you the history of these books(just being honest with you). I just found out about them yesterday via email. Louis can tell you. I've taken the liberty to pm you his contact info.

Regarding the Ammar website, to me it looks like they (Ammar) had found a box of them, not L&L. The page you're linking to is from his shopping cart. It doesn't look like a recent post from his blog, so he is not addressing these 20 books as you suggested in your post. And just because it says they are pushing or encouraging L&L to reprint them doesn't make it a fact. Louis could elaborate on that when you speak with him. I doubt there's a market to reprint these books. If someone just wanted the information, the ebook is available for sale.

Denny doesn't specify how many he has in stock. It may only be that one or he may have a dozen. He may have original stock from when they first came out and never sold them or he went around buying used copies and is reselling them.

I can tell you that on L&L's site you could not order the books until yesterday. This product wasn't in the database.

Here's how we operate the online cart - When we do run out of some products,a DVD for example that is out of stock, it may be a little while until more are ordered. In that case we can turn the product off in the database so it doesn't show up in the shopping cart. We don't delete it, it's just off. When more are in stock, we turn the product back on.

In this case the product wasn't in the database and had to be entered as if it were a new product. The book had been deleted years ago. In fact if you look at this page, which shows the new products: http://www.llpub.com/zenshop/index.php?main_page=products_new, it shows it was added to the database yesterday.

So from us, yes the product was sold out and has been most likely for several years. If other dealers still have it in stock, that's not our inventory and we don't control dealers. There were a limited amount printed. That amount hasn't changed.

Because more are still being sold at retail whether it's from us or other dealers doesn't impact the value of the book. I understand your point about supply and demand, but no collectible product is guaranteed to increase in value or is there a time frame for when the value may increase.

If there are a number of dealers out there still selling their inventory, what is our responsibility to that? Maybe you want to sell yours on ebay for $300, but you can't because Denny has it for $175 on his site. That's not our fault.
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Postby Brad Henderson » 05/17/12 07:23 PM

You miss the point. All of these sites I link to affirm that the book was sold out. That's the point.

The fact the l and l site did not list it also suggests that the book was sold out.

Now there are 20 appearing on the market and being sold by L and L.

It was sold out. Now it's not.

That is worthy of an explanation and all I am asking. As l and l sold these books originally, led others (including noted and respected names in magic) to believe they are no longer available, and are now selling a other 20 from their stock (stock which was apparently sold out), I believe that is worth an explanation.

Not to me personally, but to the public that seems to have been misled.

I look forward to the explanation. Thanks.
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Postby LL Publishing » 05/17/12 07:27 PM

Brad Henderson wrote:
I look forward to the explanation. Thanks.


Let us know how your conversation with Louis goes.

Thanks!
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Postby Brad Henderson » 05/17/12 07:38 PM

Why should I call Louis? You are 'L&L", it says so right there in your name. You yourself said this account is for answering questions about 'l&l' products.

Years ago You (you are L&L, yes) released a limited edition book. According to your post it was 'sold out'. According to several knowledgeable magicians, including the author of the book, it was sold out. Now, magically, you have 20 more copies to sell

How did that happen?

(that's a fair question for a public forum, yes? No need for secret calls and clandestine
conversations. Your company is selling these long out of print books publicly, not secretly. Why won't you answer the question publicly? After all you are a member of this forum - by your own words - to announce product and answer questions about them. Or are you here just to advertise products and answer only the questions which are convienant?)

Brad Henderson. (not ashamed to sign my name)
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Postby LL Publishing » 05/17/12 07:51 PM

Brad,

I've given you all the information I know. I apologize if it wasn't enough, but I can't tell you things I have no knowledge of.

It's become obvious to me (and others) that you have a personal issue with L&L Publishing. That's fine, but this isn't the venue to resolve that.

You've been given Louis' contact information and he is really the only one who can answer your questions.

Since there's nothing else I can do, there's no reason for me to continue posting in this thread.

If anyone is interested in buying the book, there are still a few left.
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Postby erdnasephile » 05/17/12 07:51 PM

Only 5 more left as of now!
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Postby Brad Henderson » 05/17/12 07:55 PM

Please do not accuse me of Negative motivations. You have no idea what I feel about l and l. If this is Steve, I recall you becoming incensed by Alain nu's tv special because he failed to use a disclaimer. Someone who doesn't believe in mind reading should not act as if they are a skilled psychic.

You claim, whomever you are, to be a spokesman for l and l. You will not/can not answer the question regarding the magically appearing copies of a long sold out book.

That's cool

But it does not give you the right to impugn my integrity nor speak of my motivations, of which you know nothing.

Understood?

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Postby LL Publishing » 05/17/12 08:35 PM

Brad Henderson wrote:But it does not give you the right to impugn my integrity nor speak of my motivations, of which you know nothing.

Understood?



Brad,

Based on your past comments on this site towards L&L (products and people) you haven't come across as a supporter. When the obvious path to your answers have gone untraveled there's only so much we can do for you.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 05/17/12 08:40 PM

Brad, just let it go. Take it up with Louis in a private phone call if you must, but don't post again in this thread.
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Postby Brad Henderson » 05/17/12 08:52 PM

Rk, I am happy to drop the matter, however I hope you will understand if I am again attacked personally or accused, by nameless entities, of having nefarious motivations. I appreciate your understanding should that again become the issue. Otherwise this will be the last I will post on this perplexing puzzle
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 05/17/12 09:10 PM

There are no "nameless entities" in this thread. You were contradicted by an official spokesperson for L&L Publishing.
End of story.
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Postby Roger M. » 05/17/12 11:00 PM

Brad's core question was completely legitimate, and was repeatedly obfuscated by L&L.

This has nothing to do with "personal" anything.

L&L dumped 20 expensive, limited edition books on the market long after declaring them " sold out".

The optics are clearly that, prior to the flood of cheap ebooks, L&L thought it a good idea to get rid of stock that they'd previously held back........as they too obviously feel the market is about to tank once they release everything in ebook format.

We're not idiots, and that Brad's question was intentionally, and repeatedly misrepresented did not go unnoticed by users of the Genii forum.
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Postby LL Publishing » 05/18/12 12:03 AM

Hi Roger,

Thanks for the comments.

Nothing was obfuscated. All of Brad's questions were answered to the best of my ability. He specifically asked if these books were known to exist and held back or just found. He received an honest answer, which is "I don't know". But I didn't ignore Brad and gave him contact information to the person who does know. At this point, that's the best I can do. Whether Brad follows up or not is out of my hands.

I misunderstood the point of one post where he had links to Ammar's site, Denny's site and a Cafe post. I thought he was bringing up that some dealers may have it in stock or we may be reprinting it. I didn't know he was pointing out that everyone was under the impression it was sold out. My mistake.

Then I addressed that, that yes, it's been sold out. You haven't been able to buy it from us for several years. It wasn't even in our database. But now that brings us back full circle to whether 20 copies were held back on purpose or not. And I've answered that.

20 copies are hardly going to disrupt the whole secondary market. They've been on sale for just over 24 hours and are probably sold out by now. If they are sold out, that brought in only $3,000. But it's actually less than that when you factor in shipping cost, which we pay for in the US and Canada and shipping materials. Hardly anything to retire on.

If 40 people wanted it, then 20 of them are out of luck and now need to find another source for this edition. Enter the secondary market where you can sell it for whatever the market will bear.

If a collector wants the book then an ebook isn't going to change that. People looking for information aren't the same customer looking to collect. There was a lesser priced version of the book on the market for years and that didn't hurt the value of the deluxe edition.

Thanks again for the comments.I appreciate you taking the time to write your post.
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Postby Roger M. » 05/18/12 12:22 AM

Thanks for your response to my post.

It was perhaps being unfair to press you to answer a question for which you didn't have the answer.

For whoever might have the answer at L&L, my experiences over 55 years have taught me that the only difficult question to answer is one for which a 100% honest answer isn't perceived by the "answerer" as one that's in their best interest to give.

In this case, perhaps something like "Yeah, we decided to get rid of our cache of books before they lost value as a result of the ebooks release" would probably be greeted by a grudging "well that makes perfect sense" by the majority of readers of this forum.

Ebooks by their very nature will impact the cash value of the hardcover books they duplicate.
I don't expect it will be devastating, but it will be noticeable.

I also don't see any point in anybody vilifying the release of ebooks, be they of Collectors Editions or not........as long as everybody is being completely forthcoming in the process, and as this somewhat unknown and potentially disruptive (to the hard and softcover market) ebook transition becomes more entrenched in the publishing world.

There are a lot of folks that are, or will be, choked that their collectable book is devalued in any way, and by whatever means.
IMO, that's OK........it's human nature.
I have the L&L Collectors Editon of the Vernon collection. I paid close to $300.00 for it......and although I have no intention of ever selling it (I love it), I'd be choked if the publisher put 30 more "undiscovered" ones on the market suddenly and were selling for $150.00 each.......again, just human nature.

Anyway, thanks for your polite answer to my post.
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Postby mrgoat » 05/18/12 04:45 AM

Anyone thinking of going into online PR and Marketing can use this thread as a perfect example of how people should never engage with customers.

It's quite obvious L&L are in a phase where they are essentially milking the market. They are totally entitled to do this. It is capitalism at its best (sic). It's also obvious they don't like people pointing this out, and because they are advertisers, RK quashes threads bashing them. Again, this is a private forum and it is his right to do so.

But, if L&L leave permanent records of their attitude that are like this thread, it may well put off potential new marks from donating cash.

Something for them to consider.
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Postby LL Publishing » 05/18/12 07:27 AM

These 20 books are now sold out!

Thank you to everyone who made a purchase.
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Postby LL Publishing » 05/18/12 08:51 AM

mrgoat wrote:
Something for them to consider.


Damien,

Thanks again for posting a comment. It's obvious you care about what we're doing to take the time and comment in almost every L&L Publishing thread.

Like a lot of other businesses we have customers who love what we do and others who do not. With the thousands of customers we have it's impossible to please everyone.

And like other magic producers we get criticized with almost every product we produce. As an example, the "Easy To Master" series. A lot of people felt the title was misleading, that no magic worth doing is easy to master. Yet it's one of the most popular series in our catalog. Despite being on file sharing sites for years it still continues to sell very well on DVD, but also streaming on some dealer sites and now in downloadable files on Michael Ammar's site.

We still get criticized for our audiences who appear on the DVDs. But for everyone who thinks they are a joke, there are others who love them and like that there are regulars who appear on almost every DVD. A few years ago at MAGIC Live some of the regulars were there at our booth and people were thrilled to meet them.

We are never going to please everyone with all of our responses online. A few people on this forum didn't like our response to Brad. But there are others who have emailed to give their support.

The sales we run get criticized. The newsletter we send out gets criticized. Who we follow or unfollow on Twitter gets criticized. Yet people still respond to our sales with purchases, continue to receive our newsletter and follow us on Twitter. Our customers are very supportive of us and our critics typically aren't our customers.

We can't make everyone happy. Like any business we try the best we can every day. Some of those days we're going to miss. If you're hitting a bullseye every time, you're probably standing too close to the target. We take chances at times and occasionally it doesn't work out like we planned. That's life.

There are always going to be people who have something against L&L Publishing. Whether it's personal or otherwise, they will always be the first ones to launch a criticism without asking us directly about their concern.

Damien, thanks again for your concern. As a thank you gesture from us, the next time you place an order with L&L directly, drop me an email: support@llpub.com and I'll make sure you're taken care of with a thank you gift from us.
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Postby mrgoat » 05/18/12 09:03 AM

LL Publishing wrote:We are never going to please everyone with all of our responses online. A few people on this forum didn't like our response to Brad.


I actually think you really don't get it.

Steve, when you are the face of a company, posting somewhere that is recorded forever as public record, if you are patronising, aggressive, sarcastic and snide it reflects badly on your company's brand image, imho.

If you'd answered Brad's question, and if you didn't know the answer, you should have gone and found out, rather than try and be snide and sarcastic you would have looked much better.

I know I am rarely anything but snide, but I'm not here selling anything. In my job I am always grovelingly grateful to anyone that posts any feedback. I tend to find you get more with a carrot than a stick.

Thanks for the offer of a gift, but I don't really see myself buying anything from you. Your attitude, as well as the obvious milking methods employed by your company of late doesn't make me want to support you. Nice gesture though. Should have done that to Brad yesterday and you would have won a lot more.
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Postby LL Publishing » 05/18/12 09:14 AM

Again, it's nice to know you care about what we are doing to invest the time to write a response.

Thanks again Damien!
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Postby Roger M. » 05/18/12 09:37 AM

Just an observation.

Customer service becomes intensely counter-intuitive (and exceedingly difficult) when a business is 100% sure that their customer is 100% wrong.

I always try to find at least a little bit of truth in what my customers are either saying, or asking.........which tends to make what can seem to be a bitter pill (for business) easier to swallow.

BTW, the comment that your critics aren't usually your customers wisely included "typically" in the sentence............glancing over my own shelves indicate $4500.00+ worth of L&L DVD's and books.
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Postby mrgoat » 05/18/12 09:49 AM

Roger M. wrote:Just an observation.

Customer service becomes intensely counter-intuitive (and exceedingly difficult) when a business is 100% sure that their customer is 100% wrong.


I get that a lot. People swearing and shouting because something wasn't working on a site, and I know it is their fault as 1000s of other people are using it fine.

What do I do? Smile, thank them for bringing to my attention, issue a full refund and give them extra credits on the service, then I apologise. Seems to work well.
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