Recall by Tom Crosbie and Wizard Fx Productions

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.

Postby Sketchomagic » 05/02/12 12:01 PM

Just checked this out on the WPR. Pre-order only right now, looks pretty epic. Here's the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WitGE9YD ... r_embedded
Till the next time magic fiends...
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Postby mrgoat » 05/02/12 12:13 PM

Needs more funny green tunnel things and wobbly zooms to his eye. I only counted 4 eye zooms, and that is just not enough. This is 2012.
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Postby Brad Henderson » 05/02/12 01:25 PM

A bunch of procedural and conditional stacked deck tricks - that's exactly what I want to learn from a DVD.

I guess a ten page manuscript filled with actual content just won't sell these days, even if it's a much more efficient media for conveying this type of information.

These kids today....I suppose they have that much free time.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 05/02/12 02:22 PM

They want visual, not text. You can blame the boob tube for that.
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Postby Brad Henderson » 05/02/12 04:09 PM

The irony is it is harder to learn this kind of material from a video. And as most of the tricks will probably require little by way of sleight of hand, none of the benefits one gets from video apply. IRather than taking less work, it requires MORE. It's the worst of one world without any of the benefits of the other.

You would think those that like video because it's 'easier to learn from' would understand that. Maybe i was being over optimistic

And blaming to tube is half the problem. The other half is that many young people can't read - apparently.
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Postby mrgoat » 05/02/12 04:23 PM

Brad Henderson wrote:The irony is it is harder to learn this kind of material from a video. And as most of the tricks will probably require little by way of sleight of hand, none of the benefits one gets from video apply. IRather than taking less work, it requires MORE. It's the worst of one world without any of the benefits of the other.

You would think those that like video because it's 'easier to learn from' would understand that. Maybe i was being over optimistic

And blaming to tube is half the problem. The other half is that many young people can't read - apparently.


Oh I dunno, that green tunnel and the zoomy eye thing might be a real aide memoire.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 05/02/12 04:27 PM

They can read, but they choose not to. So in addition to blaming TV, I'll also blame poor education in public schools and video games.

And I'll blame your momma, too, just for good measure.
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Postby mrgoat » 05/02/12 04:36 PM

Richard Kaufman wrote:They can read, but they choose not to. So in addition to blaming TV, I'll also blame video games.


Videogames are well proven to improve reading skills.

http://www.playattention.com/video-game ... with-adhd/

http://www.articlesbase.com/education-a ... 91466.html

you might as well try and blame hip hop too!

I think it's very simple. It's hard to write, edit, layout and publish a good book. As you know. However, it's a piece of piss to get a cheap camera, a bloke in a bar, and a laptop to edit it on. Mastering and producing a DVD is something any idiot with a PC can do. Making a good book is hard.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 05/02/12 05:45 PM

They might improve reading skills, but seem to decrease the desire to read. They have certainly decreased the desire of young boys to get into magic. It's one of a galaxy of things directing their attention elsewhere.
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Postby Brad Henderson » 05/02/12 06:08 PM

I work with 1,000's of kids each year, and while they can decipher script, this is not exactly the same as 'knowing how to read.' Though that was true of me when I was a kid too. Had it not been for magic books I may have never learned how to 'learn' from a book, on my own. Regardless, the kids I speak to not only profess a dislike for reading, they relate that they have a hard time doing it, that they fail often to comprehend. Many reasons for this, especially the one's Rk mentioned, but the effect is kids don't read well.

But goat is absolutely correct. You can shoot a magic video in no time at all, especially if you don't bother with scripting what you will say or spend time thinking about how you
will teach what you have to share. Heck, many don't even take a moment to see if their 'never before seen idea' wasn't published in a best selling book 5 years ago.

The 'content creators' (often) can't write and the target market can't/won't read. So we get products that no one can learn well from.

But at least they are cheap, easy and quick to produce.

Ps @Rk - my mom's dead.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 05/02/12 09:29 PM

Well, my mother's also DOA, so we can spread the blame around.
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Postby TomCrosbie » 05/02/12 10:14 PM

Hey Guys,

The DVD was aimed as a visual tool for teaching the memorised deck and what can be acheived. Remember - it's a grounding for beginners, not aimed at people who already know a lot about mem decks.

A lot of the tricks are "procedural and conditional" but a lot of them have a very controlled outcome. There are also a couple of visual moments in a couple of tricks - but for the most part, it's just about showing people what is possible with a memorised deck.

A lot of the moves needed for the tricks can best be taught visually, whereas the stack itself, and the "where to cut to do this" is best taught in a book form, which is why there will be a PDF on each copy.

Just my 2c at least,
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Postby Bob Cunningham » 05/02/12 11:49 PM

I agree that kids are less ableb to read than they were 50 years ago, I'm just not sure hownbad that is?

Technologies are adopted because they enable the most people to perform a task most efficiently - not because they are the best tool for some people. Most 1960's engineers could calculate much faster with a slide rule than engineers can with a calculator. But most people can not use a slide rule quickly (at all) so the slide rule goes the way of the dodo and calculators are now standard fare at Collage entrance exams.

When new technologies displace older technologies those of us who grew up with the older technologies almost always decry the change. In this situation, we are almost certainly transitioning to society that relies more heavily on oral instruction/communication then we did 20 years ago. Those of us discussing this will likely be dead before we really know if most people will believe this change gis a good thing or a bad thing.
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Postby Brad Henderson » 05/03/12 12:18 AM

No

This media is inefficient for this type of material, irrespective of the skills of the end user. (linear v nonlinear, need and ability to access specific data points quickly and efficiently, etc)

No one here has decried the value of the (new) video media for it's strengths in conveying certain types of information. I, personally, feel we have yet to fully exploit the new resources and am excited about the possibilities.
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Postby mrgoat » 05/03/12 04:34 AM

TomCrosbie wrote:The DVD was aimed as a visual tool for teaching the memorised deck and what can be acheived.


Really? Is that why you put it on a DVD? So it was visual? Amazing idea!

TomCrosbie wrote:Remember - it's a grounding for beginners, not aimed at people who already know a lot about mem decks.


We know that, and are saying that a DVD is the worst possible way to teach someone the basics of mem deck work.

TomCrosbie wrote:but for the most part, it's just about showing people what is possible with a memorised deck.


Ah, so not to teach, then? Just to show? Cool.

TomCrosbie wrote:A lot of the moves needed for the tricks can best be taught visually


Name 3 moves taught on the DVD that are best taught visually.
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Postby Ian Kendall » 05/03/12 05:06 AM

I spent three and a bit years writing a book; I could have videoed the same lessons in a month (in fact, in a way I did). There's no question that videos are easier to produce (as well as the fact that it's easier to speak than to write technical prose well).

The best option, in my eyes anyway, is a combination of both, which is why I produce PDFs with embedded videos. It takes a lot more work, granted, but I think - as a teaching tool - the end result is worth it.
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Postby mrgoat » 05/03/12 06:44 AM

Ian Kendall wrote:I spent three and a bit years writing a book;


And a very good book it is too.
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Postby Bob Klase » 05/03/12 10:39 AM

TomCrosbie wrote:Hey Guys,

The DVD was aimed as a visual tool for teaching the memorised deck and what can be acheived. Remember - it's a grounding for beginners, not aimed at people who already know a lot about mem decks.


I was looking at the previews & ads for this and wondering if I might want to buy it. I've been using a MD for over 15 years so it appears that I wouldn't be get much out of it. I do appreciate your honesty about that.
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Postby TomCrosbie » 05/03/12 11:45 AM

Bob - there are a few clever ideas for people that already use a Mem deck. But a lot of them are just with the shadow stack itself.

Damian - I used to like you! Hehe - this is just for you ;-)
http://ak6.picdn.net/shutterstock/video ... lip-id.jpg
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 05/03/12 11:58 AM

These days, I think it's a necessity for commercial purposes to include a DVD with almost any item that goes to market, including books, so I think these guys are just following the trend.
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Postby Bill Mullins » 05/03/12 12:29 PM

When I write a book, I'm going to include a DVD of me reading it aloud.

(proposed title: "The Expert at the All-You-Can-Eat Buffet Table", and no, I'm not taking preorders yet, I'm still doing research)
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Postby mrgoat » 05/03/12 12:39 PM

TomCrosbie wrote:Damian - I used to like you! Hehe - this is just for you ;-)
http://ak6.picdn.net/shutterstock/video ... lip-id.jpg



That is so weird. I looked at that image for 3 hours, now I know the Tamariz stack backwards!
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 05/03/12 01:09 PM

I would actually have enjoyed hearing Dai Vernon read The Expert at the Card Table aloud. So there.
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Postby Edward Pungot » 05/03/12 01:35 PM

Very interesting cite. I have provided one example below. In addition to providing the text to view online or download in PDF format, the nice additional touch is an accompanying audio track for each chapter (which can also be downloaded in MP3 format). This is a great alternative to enjoying classical literature, poems, and short stories as you get to listen and/or follow along with the text as it is being read out loud to you. For parents with children or those of you out there who hate reading or have short attention spans, I think this is a nice way of engaging with the text. The best part is it's all free.

http://etc.usf.edu/lit2go/1/alices-adventures-in-wonderland/

(It would have been even better if they had Juan Tamariz do the audio version of the book)
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Postby Sketchomagic » 05/03/12 08:34 PM

TomCrosbie wrote:Hey Guys,

The DVD was aimed as a visual tool for teaching the memorised deck and what can be acheived. Remember - it's a grounding for beginners, not aimed at people who already know a lot about mem decks.

A lot of the tricks are "procedural and conditional" but a lot of them have a very controlled outcome. There are also a couple of visual moments in a couple of tricks - but for the most part, it's just about showing people what is possible with a memorised deck.

A lot of the moves needed for the tricks can best be taught visually, whereas the stack itself, and the "where to cut to do this" is best taught in a book form, which is why there will be a PDF on each copy.

Just my 2c at least,


TC - Thanks for your reply and insight! I myself plan on buying your DVD, although I wouldn't have gone the 'Matrix - Reloaded' theme, would have been killer to see 'Total Recall' rebooted somehow...ehehe...just a creative thought coming from an imaging producer.

Far as the stack and the effects you can pull off with it, looked great. I enjoyed your 'off the sticks' performance on the WPR, and on the trailer. I don't know the first thing about stack decks, I can just appreciate the showmanship you delivered as well as the various effects. Solid work sir! Made me a fan.

Last-- when do you think in will be available in the states?

Thanks again Tom!
Till the next time magic fiends...
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Postby TomCrosbie » 05/03/12 09:52 PM

Hey, glad to hear you like it so far!

Yeah - the trailer was out of my hands completely - but hey - it got the idea across.

Thanks for your kind words - as far as I know - it will be available in the states the same time it's sent out in the UK.

As for that date? Your guess is as good as mine. It's completely out of my control! I just sit in front of the cameras and talk.

As for the other previous comments - if your only real criticism is that it should have been a book rather than a DVD - I have the stack and all the features as a book as well. It just doesn't teach false shuffles and cuts like the DVD does. Although if you're interested in getting hold of this book - I'll send one along with your purchase of Recall ;-)
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Postby Sketchomagic » 05/04/12 03:56 AM

TomCrosbie wrote:Hey, glad to hear you like it so far!

Yeah - the trailer was out of my hands completely - but hey - it got the idea across.

Thanks for your kind words - as far as I know - it will be available in the states the same time it's sent out in the UK.

As for that date? Your guess is as good as mine. It's completely out of my control! I just sit in front of the cameras and talk.

As for the other previous comments - if your only real criticism is that it should have been a book rather than a DVD - I have the stack and all the features as a book as well. It just doesn't teach false shuffles and cuts like the DVD does. Although if you're interested in getting hold of this book - I'll send one along with your purchase of Recall ;-)


WOW! Now that sounds like a pretty sweet deal to me...Recall DVD plus the book? Can't beat that with a baseball bat!

Appreciate the feedback Tom!
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Postby Carl Rheuban » 05/07/12 01:20 AM

Tom,

Sounds perfect. How do we get the book if we purchase the DVD?
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Postby Richard Stokes » 12/20/12 07:45 AM

This is an under-appreciated collection.
The earlier (rather harsh) comments initially put me off.

I've finally got round to viewing the dvds I purchased.

Lots of bonus utility moves and impossible effects.

Good stuff, Tom!
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Postby Richard Stokes » 12/20/12 01:10 PM

Brad is rather contrarian.
Has he actually watched the dvds?

Perhaps he could try to explain and teach the 'braino count' in words alone?

I don't think it's possible.

You really have to see the count in action to believe it.
It's a visual illusion.
Text and drawings by themselves won't capture it.
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Postby mrgoat » 12/20/12 01:34 PM

Richard Stokes wrote:Brad is rather contrarian.
Has he actually watched the dvds?

Perhaps he could try to explain and teach the 'braino count' in words alone?

I don't think it's possible.

You really have to see the count in action to believe it.
It's a visual illusion.
Text and drawings by themselves won't capture it.




It's astounding how people ever learnt anything before DVDs.

1000s of years of books just not quite doing it right.
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