Derek Dingle, John Scarne

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Doomo
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Derek Dingle, John Scarne

Postby Doomo » March 20th, 2012, 5:25 pm

OK... I have been looking for years.. Does ANYONE out there have the Tomorrow With Tom Snyder broadcast with Derek Dingle and John Scarne on it? I know SOMEONE out there does...

Please?
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Re: Derek Dingle, John Scarne

Postby Richard Kaufman » March 20th, 2012, 7:35 pm

Dingle was great that night, and Scarne was a wreck. He lost control of a card in the deck because he accidentally turned the cards around so the crimped corner was visible to us at home, but not to him on the other side of the table! He also couldn't seem to get the card into the wallet and his hand was inside his jacket for what seemed like an eternity. It was sad to see.
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Re: Derek Dingle, John Scarne

Postby AlessandroPangia » March 21st, 2012, 2:40 am

I only have seen the Scarne part unfortunately, but here you go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTjLxhne ... re=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Lx4hJDx ... re=channel

I agree about Scarne, he lost control of the card and had to go through the pack face up and he just cut to the card! He should have been better during the 40s, even though he was cheated by some cheats during his campaing to protect the troops. He was very good at advertising himself.

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Re: Derek Dingle, John Scarne

Postby Max Maven » March 21st, 2012, 3:36 am

Derek Dingle was not on that show. The other guests were Ricky Jay and David Copperfield.

The producers had specifically asked Scarne not to do any card tricks, as they had Ricky for that. They wanted Scarne to relax and just be present as the "grand master." He didn't listen.

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Re: Derek Dingle, John Scarne

Postby Bob Farmer » March 21st, 2012, 7:19 am

I remember this: I think when Ricky Jay was introduced as the world's greatest card magician (or something like that), Scarne's ego popped and he just had to prove that wasn't true.

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Re: Derek Dingle, John Scarne

Postby Steve Bryant » March 21st, 2012, 8:53 am

The sound sucks, but here's a clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTjLxhnet6g

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Re: Derek Dingle, John Scarne

Postby Doomo » March 21st, 2012, 10:16 am

So no one has Dingles appearence there (Tommorrow w/Tom Snyder) or on the daytime Barbara Walters show? Wow!
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Kevin Connolly
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Re: Derek Dingle, John Scarne

Postby Kevin Connolly » March 21st, 2012, 10:22 am

For 75 years old, he seemed pretty good to me.
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Re: Derek Dingle, John Scarne

Postby Richard Kaufman » March 21st, 2012, 11:39 am

Dingle was the co-host on the Barbara Walters daytime show (I think it was called "Not for Women Only") and was on all five days that week.

I must have misremembered Dingle being on that show. I know he was on Tom Snyder at some point.
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Re: Derek Dingle, John Scarne

Postby Richard Kaufman » March 21st, 2012, 11:48 am

I just watched the Scarne clip: it's funny how your memory works. At the time, having seen Dingle do Card to Wallet where his hand went into his pocket and then came immediately out with the wallet (no hesitation--I really should publish his technique one day), it seemed to my young eyes that Scarne took two or three minutes to get the card into the wallet, and get the wallet out of his pocket. Looking at it now, he's still in there fiddling around much too long, but it's not as long as I remembered.
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Re: Derek Dingle, John Scarne

Postby Doc Dixon » March 21st, 2012, 3:32 pm

A friend told me he once waited outside of a Philadelphia TV studio to meet John Scarne. Scarne did the card to wallet for him and my friend still remembers the "beat up old wallet wrapped up with rubber bands".

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Re: Derek Dingle, John Scarne

Postby Bob Farmer » March 21st, 2012, 4:04 pm

There is some video of Scarne doing the Card To Wallet very well. I believe it was on a Canadian Broadcasting Corporation show -- it could have been Pierre Berton hosting. David Ben or Patrick Watson may be able to help. I think by the time Scarne was on Tom Snyder, he was well past his prime (and I recall that he was on the show not because he was a magician but because he was discussing his games).

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Re: Derek Dingle, John Scarne

Postby El Harvey Oswald » March 21st, 2012, 11:51 pm

I thought the Scarne performance was fine. It's not unusual for the basic parts of taking a wallet from that pocket to cause more fumbling than transferring the card, and from their own experience people don't expect that to happen seamlessly. Also, he had done nothing to tip it off as a suspicious gesture; the palm was pretty perfect. And the wallet's rubber band-incarcerated state sells the whole thing, as does flipping the wallet to the spectator. A YouTube "tutorial" should be one-tenth as good.

That said, anyone not intrigued by Richard's post above isn't getting full value from their time here. Just the fact that he can offhandedly recall possessing a piece of history like that is one of those hard-to-explain reasons that I actually like magic. Personally, I don't care a great deal about "entertaining" audiences or any of the other counterfeit reasons that I've passed off. But is there any other field where you can participate in a de facto conversation like this one, with people of similar stature?

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Re: Derek Dingle, John Scarne

Postby Richard Kaufman » March 22nd, 2012, 12:01 am

I think the action of removing a wallet from your jacket pocket is something that people do automatically without thinking. So when it hangs up, it draws suspicion. That's what, to me, makes Scarne's hand wriggling around trying to get the card into the wallet, and then get the wallet out, so agonizing.

The Overhand Shuffle Palm that Scarne did was perfect--interesting camera angle there because for most performers they would've been exposed at that moment.
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Re: Derek Dingle, John Scarne

Postby El Harvey Oswald » March 22nd, 2012, 2:08 am

He definitely bumbled around with the wallet -- more than I'd taken in the first time.

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Re: Derek Dingle, John Scarne

Postby Jonathan Townsend » March 22nd, 2012, 8:04 am

Following up EHO's post, I thought there was a wallet load in the Dingle book. Not the one in question?

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Re: Derek Dingle, John Scarne

Postby Richard Kaufman » March 22nd, 2012, 12:10 pm

I don't believe there is a wallet load in the Dingle book. But it's a long time ago. I'm pretty sure I've never written up what I saw Derek do in using the Balducci wallet.
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Re: Derek Dingle, John Scarne

Postby Doomo » March 22nd, 2012, 1:05 pm

No Richard, no wallet load in the Dingle book... But I sure as hell would be interested...
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Chas Nigh
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Re: Derek Dingle, John Scarne

Postby Chas Nigh » March 22nd, 2012, 3:26 pm

You will find it on disk released by Simon Lovell.

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Re: Derek Dingle, John Scarne

Postby Doomo » March 22nd, 2012, 3:29 pm

Chas Nigh wrote:You will find it on disk released by Simon Lovell.


???
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Re: Derek Dingle, John Scarne

Postby Jonathan Townsend » March 22nd, 2012, 3:46 pm

Would that be his last lecture notes? the PDF that came on a disc?
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Re: Derek Dingle, John Scarne

Postby Chas Nigh » March 22nd, 2012, 3:52 pm


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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Derek Dingle, John Scarne

Postby Richard Kaufman » March 22nd, 2012, 3:52 pm

I have a printed version of those lecture notes, but don't recall the Card to Wallet. Could be there, though.
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Chas Nigh
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Re: Derek Dingle, John Scarne

Postby Chas Nigh » March 22nd, 2012, 3:55 pm

I found the link in 15 seconds. Not difficult.

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Derek Dingle, John Scarne

Postby Richard Kaufman » March 22nd, 2012, 4:30 pm

Now I remember: they used the text from my book for a lot of it.

But if they're describing a card to envelope, that's not what Derek used when I was a kid.
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Re: Derek Dingle, John Scarne

Postby Bill Mullins » March 22nd, 2012, 5:17 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:Dingle was the co-host on the Barbara Walters daytime show (I think it was called "Not for Women Only") and was on all five days that week.

I must have misremembered Dingle being on that show. I know he was on Tom Snyder at some point.


Dingle was on Tom Snyder in Oct 1975 (rerun Jun 1976).

On a Dick Cavett special in Oct 1974

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Re: Derek Dingle, John Scarne

Postby Doomo » March 22nd, 2012, 6:37 pm

Bill Mullins wrote:
Richard Kaufman wrote:Dingle was the co-host on the Barbara Walters daytime show (I think it was called "Not for Women Only") and was on all five days that week.

I must have misremembered Dingle being on that show. I know he was on Tom Snyder at some point.


Dingle was on Tom Snyder in Oct 1975 (rerun Jun 1976).

On a Dick Cavett special in Oct 1974


So where is this mythical video?
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Kevin Connolly
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Re: Derek Dingle, John Scarne

Postby Kevin Connolly » March 22nd, 2012, 7:10 pm

Seek and you'll shall find.
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Re: Derek Dingle, John Scarne

Postby Brad Jeffers » March 23rd, 2012, 12:03 am

Thanks for the link to the Scarne clip, because it led me to the "Harry Riser talks about Scarne being put in his place" clip, which led me to "Harry Riser tells a funny story about Al Goshman", which lead me to "Harry Riser talks about his good friend Charlie Miller", etc., etc.
I love to listen to older magicians recounting these kind of stories. It's much more entertaining than watching them perform their rendition of card to wallet.

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Re: Derek Dingle, John Scarne

Postby Stan Willis » March 23rd, 2012, 8:58 am

I think the name of Wesley James should be mentioned when referring to Derek's handling and/or technique for the card to envelope/wallet.If you refer to the Wesley James book "ENCHANTMENTS" there's a section in the book that talks about he and Derek working out the mechanics of the card to envelope/wallet one afternoon at a restaurant in New York City.

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Re: Derek Dingle, John Scarne

Postby Jonathan Townsend » March 23rd, 2012, 10:14 am

Wesley James discusses the load on page 189 in context of his Ambitious Card routine.
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Re: Derek Dingle, John Scarne

Postby Stan Willis » March 23rd, 2012, 10:39 am

Thanks, Jonathan, my book is somewheres in a self storage unit.

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Re: Derek Dingle, John Scarne

Postby erdnasephile » March 23rd, 2012, 11:29 am

Stan Willis wrote:Thanks, Jonathan, my book is somewheres in a self storage unit.


Mine is still in shrinkwrap ;)

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Re: Derek Dingle, John Scarne

Postby Kevin Connolly » March 23rd, 2012, 12:34 pm

Mine is in shrink-wrap, in a storage unit that's in a survival bunker.


But I don't have the key. :(
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Re: Derek Dingle, John Scarne

Postby Jonathan Townsend » March 23rd, 2012, 12:37 pm

The house of magic has many rooms indeed.
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Re: Derek Dingle, John Scarne

Postby Richard Kaufman » March 23rd, 2012, 12:50 pm

I just pulled Wesley's book off the shelf and read the description on p.189. This is NOT what Dingle did. Not at all. And you can't load a wallet quickly the way it's described.
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Re: Derek Dingle, John Scarne

Postby Jeff Haas » March 23rd, 2012, 4:20 pm

Kevin Connolly wrote:Mine is in shrink-wrap, in a storage unit that's in a survival bunker.


But I don't have the key. :(


Why is that stopping you?

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Re: Derek Dingle, John Scarne

Postby Jim Riser » March 23rd, 2012, 5:47 pm

Kevin Connolly wrote:Mine is in shrink-wrap, in a storage unit that's in a survival bunker.


But I don't have the key. :(


Use an authentic Houdini lock pick.
Jim

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Re: Derek Dingle, John Scarne

Postby Jonathan Townsend » March 23rd, 2012, 7:22 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:I just pulled Wesley's book off the shelf and read the description on p.189. This is NOT what Dingle did. Not at all...


Thanks for the confirm. Perhaps someday you'll write it up for a wallet centric magicana?

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Re: Derek Dingle, John Scarne

Postby Jim Martin » March 23rd, 2012, 8:02 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:I just pulled Wesley's book off the shelf and read the description on p.189. This is NOT what Dingle did. Not at all. And you can't load a wallet quickly the way it's described.

How does the Card To Wallet write-up in 'DDs Last Notes' by Lovell/Marotta compare to your viewings?
Jim Martin
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