Derek Dingle, John Scarne

Discuss the historical aspects of magic, including memories, or favorite stories.

Postby Doomo » 03/20/12 05:25 PM

OK... I have been looking for years.. Does ANYONE out there have the Tomorrow With Tom Snyder broadcast with Derek Dingle and John Scarne on it? I know SOMEONE out there does...

Please?
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 03/20/12 07:35 PM

Dingle was great that night, and Scarne was a wreck. He lost control of a card in the deck because he accidentally turned the cards around so the crimped corner was visible to us at home, but not to him on the other side of the table! He also couldn't seem to get the card into the wallet and his hand was inside his jacket for what seemed like an eternity. It was sad to see.
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Postby AlessandroPangia » 03/21/12 02:40 AM

I only have seen the Scarne part unfortunately, but here you go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTjLxhne ... re=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Lx4hJDx ... re=channel

I agree about Scarne, he lost control of the card and had to go through the pack face up and he just cut to the card! He should have been better during the 40s, even though he was cheated by some cheats during his campaing to protect the troops. He was very good at advertising himself.
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Postby Max Maven » 03/21/12 03:36 AM

Derek Dingle was not on that show. The other guests were Ricky Jay and David Copperfield.

The producers had specifically asked Scarne not to do any card tricks, as they had Ricky for that. They wanted Scarne to relax and just be present as the "grand master." He didn't listen.
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Postby Bob Farmer » 03/21/12 07:19 AM

I remember this: I think when Ricky Jay was introduced as the world's greatest card magician (or something like that), Scarne's ego popped and he just had to prove that wasn't true.
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Postby Steve Bryant » 03/21/12 08:53 AM

The sound sucks, but here's a clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTjLxhnet6g
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Postby Doomo » 03/21/12 10:16 AM

So no one has Dingles appearence there (Tommorrow w/Tom Snyder) or on the daytime Barbara Walters show? Wow!
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Postby Kevin Connolly » 03/21/12 10:22 AM

For 75 years old, he seemed pretty good to me.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 03/21/12 11:39 AM

Dingle was the co-host on the Barbara Walters daytime show (I think it was called "Not for Women Only") and was on all five days that week.

I must have misremembered Dingle being on that show. I know he was on Tom Snyder at some point.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 03/21/12 11:48 AM

I just watched the Scarne clip: it's funny how your memory works. At the time, having seen Dingle do Card to Wallet where his hand went into his pocket and then came immediately out with the wallet (no hesitation--I really should publish his technique one day), it seemed to my young eyes that Scarne took two or three minutes to get the card into the wallet, and get the wallet out of his pocket. Looking at it now, he's still in there fiddling around much too long, but it's not as long as I remembered.
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Postby Doc Dixon » 03/21/12 03:32 PM

A friend told me he once waited outside of a Philadelphia TV studio to meet John Scarne. Scarne did the card to wallet for him and my friend still remembers the "beat up old wallet wrapped up with rubber bands".
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Postby Bob Farmer » 03/21/12 04:04 PM

There is some video of Scarne doing the Card To Wallet very well. I believe it was on a Canadian Broadcasting Corporation show -- it could have been Pierre Berton hosting. David Ben or Patrick Watson may be able to help. I think by the time Scarne was on Tom Snyder, he was well past his prime (and I recall that he was on the show not because he was a magician but because he was discussing his games).
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Postby El Harvey Oswald » 03/21/12 11:51 PM

I thought the Scarne performance was fine. It's not unusual for the basic parts of taking a wallet from that pocket to cause more fumbling than transferring the card, and from their own experience people don't expect that to happen seamlessly. Also, he had done nothing to tip it off as a suspicious gesture; the palm was pretty perfect. And the wallet's rubber band-incarcerated state sells the whole thing, as does flipping the wallet to the spectator. A YouTube "tutorial" should be one-tenth as good.

That said, anyone not intrigued by Richard's post above isn't getting full value from their time here. Just the fact that he can offhandedly recall possessing a piece of history like that is one of those hard-to-explain reasons that I actually like magic. Personally, I don't care a great deal about "entertaining" audiences or any of the other counterfeit reasons that I've passed off. But is there any other field where you can participate in a de facto conversation like this one, with people of similar stature?
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 03/22/12 12:01 AM

I think the action of removing a wallet from your jacket pocket is something that people do automatically without thinking. So when it hangs up, it draws suspicion. That's what, to me, makes Scarne's hand wriggling around trying to get the card into the wallet, and then get the wallet out, so agonizing.

The Overhand Shuffle Palm that Scarne did was perfect--interesting camera angle there because for most performers they would've been exposed at that moment.
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Postby El Harvey Oswald » 03/22/12 02:08 AM

He definitely bumbled around with the wallet -- more than I'd taken in the first time.
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 03/22/12 08:04 AM

Following up EHO's post, I thought there was a wallet load in the Dingle book. Not the one in question?
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 03/22/12 12:10 PM

I don't believe there is a wallet load in the Dingle book. But it's a long time ago. I'm pretty sure I've never written up what I saw Derek do in using the Balducci wallet.
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Postby Doomo » 03/22/12 01:05 PM

No Richard, no wallet load in the Dingle book... But I sure as hell would be interested...
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Postby Chas Nigh » 03/22/12 03:26 PM

You will find it on disk released by Simon Lovell.
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Postby Doomo » 03/22/12 03:29 PM

Chas Nigh wrote:You will find it on disk released by Simon Lovell.


???
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 03/22/12 03:46 PM

Would that be his last lecture notes? the PDF that came on a disc?
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Postby Chas Nigh » 03/22/12 03:52 PM

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Postby Richard Kaufman » 03/22/12 03:52 PM

I have a printed version of those lecture notes, but don't recall the Card to Wallet. Could be there, though.
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Postby Chas Nigh » 03/22/12 03:55 PM

I found the link in 15 seconds. Not difficult.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 03/22/12 04:30 PM

Now I remember: they used the text from my book for a lot of it.

But if they're describing a card to envelope, that's not what Derek used when I was a kid.
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Postby Bill Mullins » 03/22/12 05:17 PM

Richard Kaufman wrote:Dingle was the co-host on the Barbara Walters daytime show (I think it was called "Not for Women Only") and was on all five days that week.

I must have misremembered Dingle being on that show. I know he was on Tom Snyder at some point.


Dingle was on Tom Snyder in Oct 1975 (rerun Jun 1976).

On a Dick Cavett special in Oct 1974
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Postby Doomo » 03/22/12 06:37 PM

Bill Mullins wrote:
Richard Kaufman wrote:Dingle was the co-host on the Barbara Walters daytime show (I think it was called "Not for Women Only") and was on all five days that week.

I must have misremembered Dingle being on that show. I know he was on Tom Snyder at some point.


Dingle was on Tom Snyder in Oct 1975 (rerun Jun 1976).

On a Dick Cavett special in Oct 1974


So where is this mythical video?
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Postby Kevin Connolly » 03/22/12 07:10 PM

Seek and you'll shall find.
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Postby Brad Jeffers » 03/23/12 12:03 AM

Thanks for the link to the Scarne clip, because it led me to the "Harry Riser talks about Scarne being put in his place" clip, which led me to "Harry Riser tells a funny story about Al Goshman", which lead me to "Harry Riser talks about his good friend Charlie Miller", etc., etc.
I love to listen to older magicians recounting these kind of stories. It's much more entertaining than watching them perform their rendition of card to wallet.
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Postby Stan Willis » 03/23/12 08:58 AM

I think the name of Wesley James should be mentioned when referring to Derek's handling and/or technique for the card to envelope/wallet.If you refer to the Wesley James book "ENCHANTMENTS" there's a section in the book that talks about he and Derek working out the mechanics of the card to envelope/wallet one afternoon at a restaurant in New York City.
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 03/23/12 10:14 AM

Wesley James discusses the load on page 189 in context of his Ambitious Card routine.
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Postby Stan Willis » 03/23/12 10:39 AM

Thanks, Jonathan, my book is somewheres in a self storage unit.
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Postby erdnasephile » 03/23/12 11:29 AM

Stan Willis wrote:Thanks, Jonathan, my book is somewheres in a self storage unit.


Mine is still in shrinkwrap ;)
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Postby Kevin Connolly » 03/23/12 12:34 PM

Mine is in shrink-wrap, in a storage unit that's in a survival bunker.


But I don't have the key. :(
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 03/23/12 12:37 PM

The house of magic has many rooms indeed.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 03/23/12 12:50 PM

I just pulled Wesley's book off the shelf and read the description on p.189. This is NOT what Dingle did. Not at all. And you can't load a wallet quickly the way it's described.
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Postby Jeff Haas » 03/23/12 04:20 PM

Kevin Connolly wrote:Mine is in shrink-wrap, in a storage unit that's in a survival bunker.


But I don't have the key. :(


Why is that stopping you?
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Postby Jim Riser » 03/23/12 05:47 PM

Kevin Connolly wrote:Mine is in shrink-wrap, in a storage unit that's in a survival bunker.


But I don't have the key. :(


Use an authentic Houdini lock pick.
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 03/23/12 07:22 PM

Richard Kaufman wrote:I just pulled Wesley's book off the shelf and read the description on p.189. This is NOT what Dingle did. Not at all...


Thanks for the confirm. Perhaps someday you'll write it up for a wallet centric magicana?
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Postby Jim Martin » 03/23/12 08:02 PM

Richard Kaufman wrote:I just pulled Wesley's book off the shelf and read the description on p.189. This is NOT what Dingle did. Not at all. And you can't load a wallet quickly the way it's described.

How does the Card To Wallet write-up in 'DDs Last Notes' by Lovell/Marotta compare to your viewings?
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