ANNOUNCEMENT REGARDING THE FUTURE OF THE FORUM: SUBSCRIBERS ONLY STARTING NEXT WEEK

Discuss general aspects of Genii.

Postby Guest » 01/13/08 01:38 PM

Think "luxury premium..."

It's interesting how many folks willingly pony up huge bucks for magic goods and services (e.g., the Castle Notebooks) in the name of exclusivity, but how few recognize the value of that same exclusivity in electronic form.

Not to mention the fact that such Forum subscribership opens the opportunity for exclusive *material* (as opposed to just community) - though Richard hasn't broached the topic in this thread.
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Postby Guest » 01/13/08 01:41 PM

I'm sorry Richard that was an A holeish thing for me to say and was not really My intent. But it came out that way. Again Sorry.

I may at somepoint subscribe again. Just at this moment I'm still buying at the shop.

I do want to say that Genii is better then it has been in years and I do enjoy reading it.

Again sorry for the stupid comment.

Randy

P.S. I just edited that part of My first post out. Thankfully we can do that here unlike that other place.
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Postby Guest » 01/13/08 01:41 PM

I agree in principle with Richard's ruling regarding posting but it is hard on those who buy from dealers (I am a subscriber)maybe a way round will be found.

However this is a chance to reiterate that I think that real names, not pseudonyms, should be used. There is no auction privacy matter so we should know who is expressing opinions, etc.
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Postby Guest » 01/13/08 01:43 PM

Okey-dokey. The ONLY reason I don't subscribe is that I prefer to subscribe to UK-based (and UK content based) magic mags. I really like Genii; but I can't subscribe to everything!

Anyway, if I lose out....

It's been GREAT fun here and I've enjoyed myself. All the best to all the friends I've made via this forum since I joined about 3/4 years ago.

God bless,

Paul Gordon
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 01/13/08 01:44 PM

Hi Randy, I had no problem with your comment, but I wanted to know why you said it. I realize some people use the purchase of a magazine (an inexpensive item) to motivate them to visit the local magic shop. But surely the trip is just as easily motivated by the purchase of a book or DVD or trick?
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 01/13/08 01:48 PM

I've just had an idea. It's probably not feasible for obvious reasons, but it might be possible, if you buy Genii from your local magic shop every month, to have your dealer send me a list of the people (along with e-mail addresses) who make the monthly purchase.
The only problem here is with people asking dealers to include them on the list when they're not really buying Genii, but just because they're friends or good customers.
Anyone see a way to make this work?
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Postby Guest » 01/13/08 01:52 PM

Richard


Well I still had that painfull twinge of realizing what I said so that's why I changed it and appologized for it.

Yes for the most part it is in addition to buying otherthings at Denny's shop in Vegas. Or I buy it from the shop I work at.

I hate wating for the mail and that's the main reason I don't subscribe to Genii or Magic. I can get them much quicker buying them in a magic shop then I can by waiting for the mail. I'm impatient at times. As I said I may subscribe again at somepoint so don't give up on me just yet.

Randy
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Postby Guest » 01/13/08 02:02 PM

That's a good idea Richard.

Now this would be a pain but if you needed evidence of at least the first purchase maybe have the buyer of the genii send you the reciept then you could send a pass word to the person. That would be alot of time spent on doing that however so I don't think My idea is the answer.

Randy
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Postby Guest » 01/13/08 02:09 PM

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:

Anyone see a way to make this work?
Sounds like a lot more trouble than it's likely to be worth. What if someone just buys 3-4 issues a year? Would that be enough to trigger the "Genii Forums bonus"? Sounds like something that would be a nightmare to track while simultaneously being easy to defraud.
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Postby Guest » 01/13/08 02:13 PM

I agree with Chris.


I think it's a nice idea Richard has for us store buying forum members but I think it would be a huge pain in the rear end to actually put to work.

Maybe it could work but I think it would really be much more trouble then it's worth.

Just go with your plan Richard. Those of us out here will come around at somepoint.

Randy
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Postby Guest » 01/13/08 02:16 PM

Well, it's been fun you fellows.

Regards,

Ricky Jay.
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Postby Guest » 01/13/08 02:21 PM

Richard
My local magic shop of choice, (The Browsers Den of Magic in Toronto) has envelopes put aside for customers who have requested their magazines put aside for them every month.
Would, perhaps, a list from the owner of the people who have Genii put aside for them every month fit the bill?

Gord
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Postby Guest » 01/13/08 02:23 PM

Shame you have come to this decision Richard.
Assume your advertisers are happy with this decision?

Ah well, off to learn some great card magic on Conjure Nation and T.s.d

Best

jc
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 01/13/08 02:23 PM

Hi Gord, yes, that's the kind of thing I have in mind.

Joe Pike = Ricky Jay? I don't think so. Besides, Ricky has a subscription to Genii. :)
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 01/13/08 02:29 PM

J Carey ... what advertisers? The only person who advertises on the banners here is me and my associate editor Jim Steinmeyer.

I've never wanted the Genii Forum to be the kind of advertising-laden experience that so many websites, including the Magic Cafe, have become. I hate seeing banners all over the place, including in the middle of threads! Makes me crazy.

No advertisers will be unhappy over this decision because there are none here.
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Postby Guest » 01/13/08 02:30 PM

Here I go again (Sorry Bill Malone and L&L Publishing)

I think Richard should just go with his plans and with time those of us that are buying from magic shops will come around to the idea if we want to post often on the Genii forum.

It's not that much for a years subscription as was said earlier.

yes I'm already rethinking My impatients at this time. I don't post that often on here (Except for today! LOL!) but I do at times and I know that if I can't I will wish I could post from time to time.

We should let Richard do this and if you find that you miss posting on here send in a subscription to him.

Randy
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Postby Guest » 01/13/08 02:38 PM

A question for Richard.

Back in the day (from the the Bull Section in the Collected Almanac) you mentioned something to the effect that periodicals live and die based on subscriptions rather than retail sales. Would you say that's still true today with Genii?
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 01/13/08 02:42 PM

It's absolutely true. We make no money on magazines sold by dealers. The price they pay is pretty much our cost.
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Postby Guest » 01/13/08 02:46 PM

Richard.

Sad to think this will be the last post you will accept from me.

Please allow me to record my disappointment at your decision. I use the forum every day, and owing to personal circumstances, cancelled my subscriptions to Genii and M#@*C magazines last year.

I cannot bring myself to use the Magic Cafe, so I fear I am now floating around cyberspace, with no magical forum with which to seek advice, trade or furnish friendships.

What a sad day.

But thanks for having me these past years.

I wish you all a successful and happy 2008.

Peace,

Darren. :confused:
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Postby Pete Biro » 01/13/08 02:49 PM

How about a secret coded password printed in the magazine? Only good one time? :genii:
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 01/13/08 02:52 PM

The code could be communicated to anyone via e-mail or phone. Already thought of that. (But nice try, Pete.)
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Postby Guest » 01/13/08 02:53 PM

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
Hi Gord, yes, that's the kind of thing I have in mind.

Joe Pike = Ricky Jay? I don't think so. Besides, Ricky has a subscription to Genii. :)
Aah. It was worth a laugh... ;)

So do I, under another name.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 01/13/08 02:59 PM

Well, Joe, then you'll continue to be able to use the Forum under your current pseudonym. The only person who will have access to the list of actual subscribers and pseudonyms will be me, and confidentiality will be an important part of this new system. My lips will be sealed. I don't care if my friends want to make provocative remarks. :)
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Postby Guest » 01/13/08 03:01 PM

I was going to give the same sudjestion,but then

I thought that the magazine should be enclosed

in a plastic wrap as for subscriber,right?

And the code,or easier,a word at at a certain

page,should be valid a certain period.......

Alessandro.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 01/13/08 03:03 PM

Hi Allesandro, your idea is a good one, and several others have made similar suggestions in private e-mails to me today.
The problem is that it would require too much work to make it a reality. And any code could easily be passed around to other people.
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Postby Guest » 01/13/08 03:05 PM

OK, OK..............last post, I promise.

If anybody can recommend an alternative forum to join, would they kindly email this sad, pathetic pasteboard-frollicker, please?

magicdaz@yahoo.com

Respectfully, over and out.

Darren
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Postby Guest » 01/13/08 03:07 PM

Richard Kaufman said:

Anyone see a way to make this work?
How about just forgetting the whole idea.
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Postby Rick Ruhl » 01/13/08 03:14 PM

You know how copper was formed? Two magicians fighting over a penny.

If you use this forum every day and you find it useful, what's wrong with paying 6.8 cents a day to access it?

Richard is in a business, a business to make money. Let him make his money, even though it's not alot. It amazes me to thing that people in their own business are rolling in dough and those who aren't are think they are owed something for free.

In the good old days, it cost $6.00 a hour on Compuserve and $5 an hour on GENie (GE's service) to be online. You had excelent support because the forum managers got paid and did the work full time.

Yes, this is a full time job, I did it online from 1979-1999. It takes about 18 hours a day to keep a forum running. Been there, done that.

So Richard should not change his plans, he's doing the right thing with the resources he has. My god, Dustin and Jim moderate for free and in the old days, I'd pay my forum managers $3,000 - $4,000 a month per forum to do the job right. No way that Richard can afford to do that, even though Dustin and Jim are high quality forum managers and are worth that and more.

6.8 cents a day. Open your wallet if you find the forum a value.
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Postby Pete Biro » 01/13/08 03:16 PM

how many folks does this represent?
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 01/13/08 03:18 PM

Unknown at present.
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Postby Guest » 01/13/08 03:24 PM

Originally posted by Rick Ruhl:
You know how copper was formed? Two magicians fighting over a penny.
I heard this differently.
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Postby Guest » 01/13/08 03:25 PM

I subscribed for years then, for various reasons, stopped subscribing and got in the habit of picking up my copy at the local shop.

I just re-subscribed.
Helping (in an admittedly very VERY SMALL way) to keep Genii going is the important thing.

The Forum is icing on the cake, and it would stink to "lose contact" with a number of you folks--I've grown accustomed to some of you kooks ;) .
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Postby Guest » 01/13/08 03:37 PM

The current registered membership is 10045- why not continue to allow these members (non -subscribers and all) the ability to post and any future forum applicant to provide subscription details in order for them to post.

A workable compromise?
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Postby Guest » 01/13/08 03:51 PM

I completely support Richard in his decision and was, I believe, the first to write him and tell him so. Time each day is limited, especially with a monthly production like Genii. Having an expensive, time-consuming bonus like the Forum as a service to non-subscribers makes little business sense.

Like any small magazine, Genii is massively labor-intensive. The magazine is produced by a tiny number of people. Imagine running a business where every month you had to produce a new, high-quality product that was similar in format to the previous months product, but with all new content. Well, thats what magazine publishing is all abouta new production every single month of the year. How many of you could do that?

On top of keeping up the quality you have to deal with writers who are either paid a small stipend or donate their time and talent, advertisers who dont necessarily always get their copy or their ad revenue in on time, and subscribers who miss issues, and the political dimensions in dealing with various magic societies. Having been in Richards position with a magazine I edited some years back, I know exactly what hes going through.

Out of all of this he is supposed to make enough money to support himself and his family.

On top of all of that, far too many magicians are cheap bastards who fail to understand the real costs and the real values of things. Genii is dirt cheap for the quality of product you get. It should be far more expensive than what Richard charges. A rate of $53 is peanuts compared to some niche market publications. It could easily be half again what Richard now charges and still be under priced.

I'm amazed to hear of guys who buy some lame DVD that's full of crappy, unworkable "magic" for an exorbitant price but cant afford $53 a year for the quality of news, articles, and effects that Genii provides.

Just reading one review and avoiding a crappy book or DVD would save you the cost of the subscription. It should pay for itself in those kinds of savings alone.
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Postby Guest » 01/13/08 03:55 PM

Richard;
I feel that requiring subscribtions to post on the Genii Forum is a wise business and a necessary decision. To show my support for this decision, I am willing to donate a set of cups to a subscriber of Genii who is randomly drawn from the Genii Subscriber list by you (Richard) on January 31, 2008. :eek:

This offer is for those with active Genii subscriptions only. If having the Genii Forum as a subscription value added feature is not enough for people, perhaps this will prove to be an incentive to subscribe. This cup set offer is subject to your (Richard's) approval, of course.

As for foreign exchange rates, I utilize a credit card service (rather than a merchant's account) for credit card transactions. This service automatically converts my prices into over 30 different currency values as per the exchange rate at the time the order is placed. Such a service might be a possibility for foreign orders.

For those buying issues at brick and mortar stores, perhaps a peel off "proof of purchase" sticker could be included inside every sealed issue sold in shops.

OK, guys, let's support Richard in this decision.
Jim
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Postby Guest » 01/13/08 03:58 PM

More proof of what I've know for years: Jim Riser is a hell of a guy!
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Postby Carlo Morpurgo » 01/13/08 04:21 PM

Originally posted by Jim Riser:
Richard;
I feel that requiring subscribtions to post on the Genii Forum is a wise business and a necessary decision. To show my support for this decision, I am willing to donate a set of cups to a subscriber of Genii who is randomly drawn from the Genii Subscriber list by you (Richard) on January 31, 2008. :eek:

This offer is for those with active Genii subscriptions only.
Great idea! But why not restrict the list only to those who subscribed or re-subscribed starting from today ;) ? ....makes more sense as an incentive.
Yes, I just re-started my subscription today (before your offer, after the announcement).

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Postby Richard Kaufman » 01/13/08 04:46 PM

Thank you, David and Jim, for your support.

The idea is to have only current subscribers allowed to post on the Forum. Each month, people who haven't renewed will have their Forum posting priviliges blocked. If they renew, posting privileges will be reinstated (for me this is as simple as checking a box).

This will start next week.
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Postby John LeBlanc » 01/13/08 05:02 PM

Originally posted by Eoin O'Hare:
The current registered membership is 10045- why not continue to allow these members (non -subscribers and all) the ability to post and any future forum applicant to provide subscription details in order for them to post.

A workable compromise?
I think the workable compromise occurred when Richard decided only Genii subscribers would be able to post.

Since I'm typing anyway, I'll add my full support for this decision. I think it's an elegant solution to a number of issues involving this board.

The fact that all it takes to post here -- to actively participate -- is a subscription to the magazine is a hell of a deal. I'm at a complete loss to understand why anyone who participates on this forum finds it a problem to subscribe to the magazine. (I think anyone interested in magic should be subscribed anyway, but that's another subject.)

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Postby Guest » 01/13/08 05:12 PM

Blimey - who rattled David Alexander's cage??

Most of the people expressing concern at Richard's decision BUY Genii magazine from their local dealer! We're not "cheap bastards" or freeloaders! I think it is the best magazine available, and congratulate Richard on his achievements. The situation may not be ideal as far as Richard is concerned, but you can't have your cake and eat it. If readers who buy their magazine from dealers are not valued then there is a simple solution - don't supply the dealers with copies! This would force those who want to read the mag to subscribe!! Somehow I can't see this happening.

I wonder what percentage of the readership buy their copies from dealers compared to those who subscribe? I suspect that we "second rate" readers contribute greatly to reducing the unit cost of an issue.

At the end of the day Richard is free to make his own choice - he runs the show. If I am barred from posting on the forum, then so be it. I will still continue to buy Genii, my favourite magazine, from my local dealer.

The effect of barring non subscribers from posting is, as yet, unknown. In my opinion, if this results in less news, gossip, advice and information, then EVERYBODY loses, subscribers and non-subscribers alike!

Dave
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