Issue : Free EMC DVD inserted in Genii magazine

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Postby Chakkan » 12/18/11 02:03 PM

Hi all,

I'm new to the forum, but have been following the magazine for some months now.

A couple of months ago, a free DVD of the EMC was offered with the magazine.

Since I only subscribed to the online mag, is there any link available to download the content of the DVD ?

Any help appreciated,

Thanks

David
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Postby mrgoat » 12/18/11 03:39 PM

How does one only subscribe to just the online edition?
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Postby John Signa » 12/18/11 03:49 PM

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Postby Richard Kaufman » 12/18/11 11:15 PM

Sorry: those who subscribe only to the digital edition cannot receive the extra items which are actually mailed with the magazine
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Postby Chakkan » 12/19/11 04:14 AM

Thank you Richard for your quick answer.

However, i find this difference is quite upsetting and make me feel ike my online subscription is worth much less than an regular one.
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Postby mrgoat » 12/19/11 04:53 AM

Chakkan wrote:Thank you Richard for your quick answer.

However, i find this difference is quite upsetting and make me feel ike my online subscription is worth much less than an regular one.


Change it to the physical one. As the price is as good as the same, it makes little odds.
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Postby mrgoat » 12/19/11 04:54 AM



Thanks. I seemed to remember RK saying that you could't get just the online version. Shame the pricing seems a little out of whack, but hey ho.
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Postby Andres Reynoso » 12/20/11 01:48 PM

Some months ago Richard announced the digital subscription only for foreign people.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 12/20/11 03:16 PM

The price for a digital-only subscription for those outside the US is intended to enable foreign subscribers to avoid the high postage fees that add so much to the cost of a regular (US) subscription when magazines have to be sent outside the country.

A digital-only subscription also gives the subscriber access to our 75 years of back issues.

I feel $56 is a fair price for that.
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Postby Thomas Van Aken » 01/06/12 10:26 AM

This remind me the "insert and give away" topic in "The Collected Almanac"...
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Postby IrishMagicNews » 01/23/12 09:32 AM

I think the International Digital Sub is a fair price.

If you want the extra's take out a regular foreign sub. You still get the magazine digitally the day it is released and get a hard copy plus any bonus material at a later date.

I do miss having the paper issue in my hands but the lower cost and immediate delivery make it worthwhile.

You know it isn't easy publishing an industry magazine in these times and I applaud Richard and anyone else who does.
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Postby mrgoat » 01/23/12 09:51 AM

Richard Kaufman wrote:The price for a digital-only subscription for those outside the US is intended to enable foreign subscribers to avoid the high postage fees that add so much to the cost of a regular (US) subscription when magazines have to be sent outside the country.


So no print costs, no storage, no postage, no wrappers, no distribution and the cost is the same as the print edition in the US?

I think that the price of publications produced electronically needs to reflect the financial savings the publisher makes. This isn't just a Genii thing, it's a publishing thing. Same price books on kindle as a hard copy? That's just ridiculous.

And the difference between the international version and the dig version works out at $2 a month less. They seem like very reasonable postage costs to me.

Obviously, producing a magazine takes time, skill and dedication. We all applaud you for doing this. But the price differences need to be adjusted to reflect the massively reduced costs, imho.
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Postby Jim Maloney » 01/23/12 11:30 AM

mrgoat wrote:
Richard Kaufman wrote:The price for a digital-only subscription for those outside the US is intended to enable foreign subscribers to avoid the high postage fees that add so much to the cost of a regular (US) subscription when magazines have to be sent outside the country.


So no print costs, no storage, no postage, no wrappers, no distribution and the cost is the same as the print edition in the US?

I think that the price of publications produced electronically needs to reflect the financial savings the publisher makes. This isn't just a Genii thing, it's a publishing thing. Same price books on kindle as a hard copy? That's just ridiculous.

And the difference between the international version and the dig version works out at $2 a month less. They seem like very reasonable postage costs to me.

Obviously, producing a magazine takes time, skill and dedication. We all applaud you for doing this. But the price differences need to be adjusted to reflect the massively reduced costs, imho.


I don't necessarily disagree with this, but to play devil's advocate for a moment, what's the actual cost difference? Sure, there's a savings on shipping and printing, but what about the cost of maintaining servers and tech support and producing the online version (which does take additional effort beyond simply producing PDF files)? Digital versions may remove some costs, but they definitely add in others that shouldn't be ignored.

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Postby mrgoat » 01/23/12 12:21 PM

Jim Maloney wrote:I don't necessarily disagree with this, but to play devil's advocate for a moment, what's the actual cost difference? Sure, there's a savings on shipping and printing, but what about the cost of maintaining servers and tech support and producing the online version (which does take additional effort beyond simply producing PDF files)? Digital versions may remove some costs, but they definitely add in others that shouldn't be ignored.

-Jim


Hosting costs for a file that size would be as good as nothing. If not, I can help secure some properly priced hosting. That would be a managed box that would need no additional tech support.

I can't see any other costs on the digital side.

On the print side I see being removed: print, ink, paper, storage, shipping, wrappers, postage.

Doesn't seem to add up, really.

but this, as I stressed, is across the board with electronic publishers, not something restricted to Mr K.
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Postby erdnasephile » 01/23/12 12:43 PM

Jim Maloney wrote:
mrgoat wrote:
Richard Kaufman wrote:The price for a digital-only subscription for those outside the US is intended to enable foreign subscribers to avoid the high postage fees that add so much to the cost of a regular (US) subscription when magazines have to be sent outside the country.


So no print costs, no storage, no postage, no wrappers, no distribution and the cost is the same as the print edition in the US?

I think that the price of publications produced electronically needs to reflect the financial savings the publisher makes. This isn't just a Genii thing, it's a publishing thing. Same price books on kindle as a hard copy? That's just ridiculous.

And the difference between the international version and the dig version works out at $2 a month less. They seem like very reasonable postage costs to me.

Obviously, producing a magazine takes time, skill and dedication. We all applaud you for doing this. But the price differences need to be adjusted to reflect the massively reduced costs, imho.


I don't necessarily disagree with this, but to play devil's advocate for a moment, what's the actual cost difference? Sure, there's a savings on shipping and printing, but what about the cost of maintaining servers and tech support and producing the online version (which does take additional effort beyond simply producing PDF files)? Digital versions may remove some costs, but they definitely add in others that shouldn't be ignored.

-Jim


I can see both sides of this issue; however, I think was is being lost is that what magazine publishers are primarily selling is not paper and postage, but rather content.

So, IMHO, the real question should be is the content worth the price being asked--not necessarily what form that content takes. For the high quality of Genii content, I think most would agree that the current subscription rates are a good value.
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Postby mrgoat » 01/23/12 12:55 PM

erdnasephile wrote:I can see both sides of this issue; however, I think was is being lost is that what magazine publishers are primarily selling is not paper and postage, but rather content.


Well, technically they are into selling subs and ad space to a well targeted audience.

erdnasephile wrote:So, IMHO, the real question should be is the content worth the price being asked--not necessarily what form that content takes. For the high quality of Genii content, I think most would agree that the current subscription rates are a good value.



I can't see anyone suggesting otherwise.

I am just curious about the justification of the electronic price. The print version in the US is 56 bucks, the online version is 56 bucks.

Sure, 56 bucks is fine value for the mag. But if there are no ink, paper, print, storage, distribution, postage etc costs, then surely the electronic version should be substantially less expensive?

If a book is 30 bucks at a store, and 30 bucks on my kindle, I'd take the dead tree version. If it was 5 bucks on my kindle, I'd buy a whole lot more kindle books!
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Postby Ted M » 01/23/12 01:26 PM

Say the digital-only subscription is offered for foreign customers at a discount. Say it's half price, $28.

Suddenly cheap US magicians (and as we know, magicians are notoriously cheap) drop their print subscriptions and pretend they live abroad to read Genii for $28 instead of $56.

Let's say half the subscriber base does that.

Suddenly the print magazine has its print run cut in half, which dramatically increases the unit cost of each physical magazine.

Richard raises rates on the physical suscribers to cover this. More subscribers shift to digital, and downward it spirals. Bam! No more Genii on paper for anybody.

That would suck!

1) Is that desired? (My view: NO!!)
2) Even if desired, would it be sustainable? Online ad revenue vs print ad revenue may not even be in the same ballpark, and may be far less stable. Subscription renewal habits may also be very different for digital vs physical -- the collector's instinct gets prodded with physical objects; with digital, not so much. Etc.
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Postby mrgoat » 01/23/12 01:47 PM

Ted M wrote:Say the digital-only subscription is offered for foreign customers at a discount. Say it's half price, $28.

Suddenly cheap US magicians (and as we know, magicians are notoriously cheap) drop their print subscriptions and pretend they live abroad to read Genii for $28 instead of $56.

Let's say half the subscriber base does that.

Suddenly the print magazine has its print run cut in half, which dramatically increases the unit cost of each physical magazine.

Richard raises rates on the physical suscribers to cover this. More subscribers shift to digital, and downward it spirals. Bam! No more Genii on paper for anybody.

That would suck!

1) Is that desired? (My view: NO!!)
2) Even if desired, would it be sustainable? Online ad revenue vs print ad revenue may not even be in the same ballpark, and may be far less stable. Subscription renewal habits may also be very different for digital vs physical -- the collector's instinct gets prodded with physical objects; with digital, not so much. Etc.


OK, stick your head in the sand and pretend the digital revolution isn't happening.

You can *want* a hard copy all you like, but in the very near future, there won't be a printed magazine industry. Simple fact.

One can either prepare for that now, or ignore it.

(also, there are quite simple technical ways you could block anyone in the US accessing the digital version) (and yes, there are ways round it, but I imagine most of the people that desire the hard copy version aren't too familiar with VPNs)

My point is, I don't think that pricing a physical book or magazine at the same price as the electronic version makes good business sense.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 01/23/12 02:04 PM

I understand your point of view, Damian, but it is the business plan I have chosen for now. It's the one that makes sense to me at this time.
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Postby mrgoat » 01/23/12 02:27 PM

Richard Kaufman wrote:I understand your point of view, Damian, but it is the business plan I have chosen for now. It's the one that makes sense to me at this time.


Obviously it is one that makes sense to you, or you wouldn't have done it!

I'd love you to split test the online edition, charging 56 for one and - say - 30 for another. I would wager you'd make more than twice as many sales.

You could split test it easily with an email to 10% of your subs base.
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Postby Gordon Meyer » 01/23/12 03:09 PM

Nobody is a bigger proponent of digital content then I am, I've dedicated most of my professional career to it. However, expecting it to be substantially less expensive then printed content is naive. It's often more expensive to produce electronic versions when the total cost is considered instead of just focusing on the mistaken presumption that Interest-based distribution is free, cheap, or easy.
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Postby Kmac » 01/23/12 03:31 PM

As far as the DVD goes, I received one with my print version, but it wouldn't play in my PS3 or my computer.

Anyone else have this problem?
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Postby Mark Collier » 01/23/12 03:58 PM

The DVD won't play on my computer (1 yr old Apple desktop).
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 01/23/12 04:30 PM

Does it play in a dedicated DVD player?
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Postby Kmac » 01/23/12 04:34 PM

If I still have the DVD I'll try it tonight in my TV/DVD combo.
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Postby mrgoat » 01/23/12 04:59 PM

Gordon Meyer wrote:the mistaken presumption that Interest-based distribution is free, cheap, or easy.


Can you explain how is it expensive and difficult? Bandwidth is at its cheapest ever. Even dedicated managed hosts are cheap as chips. What costs are you talking about? I'm lost.
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Postby Jim Maloney » 01/23/12 05:06 PM

Richard Kaufman wrote:Does it play in a dedicated DVD player?


It worked fine in my Blu-Ray player (though the menu was a bit difficult to use in some places) -- I haven't tried it in my laptop or desktop.

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Postby Joe Pecore » 01/23/12 06:10 PM

DVD worked fine on my laptop (Windows).
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 01/23/12 06:32 PM

I've just opened a random copy of the issue and tried the DVD on my year-old HP desktop--worked no problem (but the trailer at the beginning is a forced play and can't be skipped).

The DVD will not play on my one-year old MacBook Pro!

The DVD plays on both my normal DVD player and on the blu-ray player.

And it played with no problem on my wife's desktop Mac.

Not sure what the issue with my apple laptop is.
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Postby Pete McCabe » 01/23/12 07:03 PM

Mine would not play on my son's 1-2 year old iMac, but played on my old Powerbook G4. My MacBook Air has no DVD drive.

BTW the menu system seemed weird, in a way that made me think it wasn't working. When I clicked on the Dani Ortiz free trick, a triangle appeared next to that item, and a standard-looking video window with a play button appeared on the screen. But the play button didn't work.

Turns out you have to click on an item to make the triangle appear, and then click on the item again to have it play. Seemed very counterintuitive to me.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 01/23/12 08:53 PM

It's strange that so many people seem to watch the DVD on their computers rather than on stand-alone DVD players. I never really thought about it before.
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Postby erdnasephile » 01/23/12 09:19 PM

Actually, when I'm trying to learn a trick, I only watch them on my computer--it's a whole lot easier to go frame to fame, slow down, go back, zoom in, etc. on my desktop than it is on my stand alone player.
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Postby IrishMagicNews » 01/24/12 04:09 PM

For what it is worth I hardly ever use a stand alone DVD player anymore either.
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Postby Steve Bryant » 01/24/12 04:33 PM

I have my iMac set for British DVDs (to watch Derren Brown videos) and a Lacie external DVD drive attached to it to watch US DVDs on my iMac. Lately I have experienced difficulty using the Lacie drive to watch DVDs from EMC. The recent EMC set (the online convention) plays fine (both years). The Utopia set featuring Dani Daortiz does not play at all. The free Genii DVD plays but with a really loud noise out of the device. Other DVDs play fine on this Lacie drive, and the DVDs seem to play fine on other devices. Hence I am not certain which is at fault, my drive or the DVDs from Luis. For some reason, they don't like each other.
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Postby Gordon Meyer » 01/24/12 08:46 PM

mrgoat wrote:
Gordon Meyer wrote:the mistaken presumption that Interest-based distribution is free, cheap, or easy.


Can you explain how is it expensive and difficult? Bandwidth is at its cheapest ever. Even dedicated managed hosts are cheap as chips. What costs are you talking about? I'm lost.


I did explain, but it was in the part of the sentence you left off the quote. Sheesh. There is more to "Internet distribution" than bandwidth and hosting. Yes, that has gotten to be less expensive over the years. But it's just one part of the costs associated with a digital publication.

Have you noticed that Mandala, a 100% digital publication, is $6 per issue? If all they had to pay for was bandwidth, by your measure, you'd expect it to be free, I presume.
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Postby John Signa » 01/25/12 02:30 AM

The disc wouldn't play on my Sony player (menu would display after a while, but non e of the menu selections would play), and wouldn't even load on both DVD drives in my Mac Pro. The noises that all three made lead me to believe there was something physically wrong with the disc. Sure enough, looking at the disc I could see that the printing was slightly offset which would through the balance of the disc off making it unplayable on many drives.
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Postby mrgoat » 01/25/12 06:31 AM

Gordon Meyer wrote:There is more to "Internet distribution" than bandwidth and hosting.


What more is there? I already asked once, Sheesh.

And no, of course I wouldn't expect an online publication to be free. They have to pay for content. Silly billy.

So, educate us. What other costs aside from hosting and bandwidth are involved in *distributing* content on the internet.
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