Selling the Show - new book by Sean Taylor

Post topics about the business side of magic.

Postby Timothy Hyde » 12/14/11 12:37 AM

While there are plenty of books and courses on Marketing Magic, few focus just on the Sales process itself.

Selling the Show is a new book by Sean Taylor, who comes from a background of both sales and performance.

You can read about the book here http://www.magiccoach.com/Selling.htm
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Postby mrgoat » 12/14/11 11:34 AM

All the books/courses I've seen on marketing magic contain nothing one cannot get from a book on basic sales. I imagine the unique (sic) part is little more than DIPADA...

What makes this different? (aside from the appalling clip art cover image and bad punctuation in your "review").
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Postby Timothy Hyde » 12/15/11 04:54 PM

Would you like us to send you a copy?

It may help you learn the skill of rapport building with the people you "communicate" with.
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Postby mrgoat » 12/15/11 06:25 PM

Sure, or you could answer my question.

damian AT damianjennings DOT com

I'll read it and give a review.
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Postby joshlondon » 01/05/12 09:30 PM

If you're handing them out I wouldn't mind one lol

Actually, I feel it's always good to brush up on another's point of view. However, the $70 price tag is what intrigues me.

Timothy, can you explain a bit more about this at all?
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Postby mrgoat » 01/06/12 05:01 AM

He didn't send me one. And in fact the author sent me a very abusive email castigating me for having the audacity to guess that his book was the same as all the other basic sales books. Then he threatened me. Very funny.
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Postby joshlondon » 01/06/12 10:00 AM

Oh well, good customer service I guess. Thanks mrgoat
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Postby El Mystico » 01/06/12 10:02 AM

Maybe he was demonstrating the importance of rapport building with the people you "communicate" with
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Postby mrgoat » 01/06/12 12:04 PM

El Mystico wrote:Maybe he was demonstrating the importance of rapport building with the people you "communicate" with


Maybe, here is what he sent me:


"Thanks for that, no more or less than I expected from an expert.

I see you do close up for 250 quid.

I used to charge 250 when I lived in the UK too. In 1989.

This kind of attitude catches up with you. Good luck. You will need it. "

Sounds like a real people person, doesn't he!
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Postby Timothy Hyde » 01/06/12 08:32 PM

mrgoat wrote:
Maybe, here is what he sent me:


"Thanks for that, no more or less than I expected from an expert.

I see you do close up for 250 quid.

I used to charge 250 when I lived in the UK too. In 1989.

This kind of attitude catches up with you. Good luck. You will need it. "



If that is now regarded as a "very abusive" and threatning email in Brighton, things must have changed :cool:
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Postby Timothy Hyde » 01/06/12 10:33 PM

joshlondon wrote:
If you're handing them out I wouldn't mind one lol



Josh, sorry, I'm just helping Sean promote the book, as I respect his wide experience in the fields of magic and sales. I organised a discount for my magiccoach subscribers that saved them some cash and thought others who know Sean's work would be interested. The discount will be removed next week, but you will still be able to obtain the book via the Taylors Magic website. www.taylorsmagicshop.com

cheers

Timothy
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Postby joshlondon » 01/06/12 11:12 PM

The whole experience left a bad taste in my mouth. I think I'll pass.
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Postby Timothy Hyde » 01/07/12 12:26 AM

No problems.

How is your Magic Marketing book coming along?
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Postby mrgoat » 01/07/12 05:57 AM

Timothy Hyde wrote:
mrgoat wrote:
Maybe, here is what he sent me:


"Thanks for that, no more or less than I expected from an expert.

I see you do close up for 250 quid.

I used to charge 250 when I lived in the UK too. In 1989.

This kind of attitude catches up with you. Good luck. You will need it. "



If that is now regarded as a "very abusive" and threatning email in Brighton, things must have changed :cool:


Is there a chapter in the book on dealing with people on the internet who suggest your work may be derivative tosh?

Also, he should get a new shill.
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Postby mrgoat » 01/07/12 05:59 AM

Timothy Hyde wrote:No problems.

How is your Magic Marketing book coming along?


So someone doesn't want your mate's book so you are sarcastic to them?

You are awesome!

This is such a good advert for the book.
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Postby Timothy Hyde » 01/07/12 06:05 PM

mrgoat wrote:
Timothy Hyde wrote:No problems.

How is your Magic Marketing book coming along?


So someone doesn't want your mate's book so you are sarcastic to them?



Sarcastic? It was a serious question to someone who was or is writing a book on marketing magic. I have a newsletter that goes out to over 1000 people who are interested in the topic. Hopefully Josh will respond.

Why all the anger?
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 01/07/12 06:26 PM

Goat is a naturally cynical person, so it's cynicism rather than anger.
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Postby Bob Cunningham » 01/07/12 10:34 PM

IT + Magic = Cynical. That's hard to believe :-)
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Postby mrgoat » 01/08/12 05:55 AM

Timothy Hyde wrote:Why all the anger?


It's not anger. I'm just trying to make sure as few people as possible buy the tat you are shilling.

HTH

Damian
x

PS Each time you post it brings this thread to the top, I'd stop if I were you.
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Postby Timothy Hyde » 01/08/12 07:07 AM

I'm quite happy to continue
as long as you keep adding to your list of assumptions
eg. that a book you have not read is "tat"
and that keeping a thread active is hurting sales

: )

Timothy

P.S. the MagicCoach special offer is now over
please direct any more orders direct to http://www.taylorsmagicshop.com
Last edited by Timothy Hyde on 01/08/12 07:10 AM, edited 0 times in total.
Reason: Incorrect url
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Postby mrgoat » 01/08/12 10:56 AM

Timothy Hyde wrote:I'm quite happy to continue
as long as you keep adding to your list of assumptions
eg. that a book you have not read is "tat"
and that keeping a thread active is hurting sales



Continue away
Making posts and using endstop
Like ee cummings did
But he wrote interesting things
You just try and get an
affiliate deal
selling books that are so bad
you chickened out of sending
me
a
copy

Thread like this
do nothing
to boost sales
in fact, already people have posted here
saying they are put off by your
approach

Post your
webstats
and prove me
wrong
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Postby Bob Cunningham » 01/08/12 11:48 AM

I have had some successful marketing experience with small business - but not magicians. For whatever it is worth (and that may be nothing) I thought I would toss out three thoughts on marketing in magic that might be useful in evaluating whether to purchase Sean's book-

1st, be a little credulous when ever a marketing guru's asks for your money. Most marketing people have a little P.T. Barnum in their blood. They tend to over promise and under deliver. Take their claims with a whole salt shaker full of salt. For example, if a guy was making $500,000 a year doing magic, why on earth would he tell you how he does it? If he says that he now want's to "help other magicians" then why charge for it? You can put a huge amount of information on a website at almost no cost. If the magic marketing genius was really altruistic then he/she could provide the information free of charge. Did you know that in multi level marketing schemes most of the money is made in training the "faithful"? Perhaps our "successful magician" was not really so successful. Maybe he/she sees selling marketing information as a way to become financially successful? There is nothing wrong with this as long as everyone understands that this is what's going on!

I have to agree with Damian that most marketing books are simply a rehash of things that have been widely known and published for over 50 years. Before I spent my money on a marketing resource, I would ask, "Am I sure that this contain marketing secrets unique to my industry or is it vanilla marketing sold at premium because it has the name of my industry on it." As we say in Texas, "All hat - no cattle".


2nd, don't market - be in the market place! I heard this from Jeff McBride and it made a lot of sense to me. My wife has built a successful law practice over the last 5 years spending almost no money on marketing using this principal. She is involved in civic groups (Rotary, women's groups, ect.) networking groups, volunteer legal clinics, toastmasters, and more. As people came to know her when they need an estate planning attorney they called the one thy knew.

In the context of magic, if I were looking to sell my magic shows I would do charity shows, offer my shows to be auctioned off at the local PBS station, volunteer at hospitals, etc. I would also join networking groups, Rotary, etc. Join toastmasters, offer a series of magic classes at your local library. As people get to know you they will likely employ you.


3rd, spend no money on marketing - Be creative instead. Most small business go under because they OVER spend in their early years. Learn to be a cheap SOB. IN the marketing field, go to your public library and check out ANY of the guerrilla marketing series. You may find many ideas you can use directly. However, even if you can not find one single idea that you can directly use, you will be stimulated to find your own creative marketing . The last statistic I saw said that only 3% of Americans possess a library card. Get on - use one!
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Postby Harry Lorayne » 01/08/12 01:30 PM

D'ja ever get the feeling that you simply don't exist? That all you've done/accomplished is a dream, or just imagination? I got a bit of that feeling when I was told about this thread and told to go to the second site mentioned in the original post. They're selling Magazine Memory as if it's something new!!! Names are mentioned, but not mine. I'm wondering if those who are mentioned were even alive when I STARTED TO PERFORM Magazine Memory?! Just for the record, and to make sure I didn't imagine it all::::

I started doing the magazine thing when I started doing appearances, memory only, back in 1949!! NOBODY, to my knowledge was doing it then.

I taught magazine memory in my VERY FIRST book on the subject (which is still "out there") in 1956!! Oh, and it sold over 8 million copies!! And, I taught magazine memory in just about every other book (perhaps 7 of them) on the subject after that. My current book (Ageless Memory) ALSO teaches it.

And, I've done it on just about every major TV And radio talk show in America and in quite a few other countries. I performed magazine memory on the David Susskind Show, Good Morning America, The Today Show, a few times on Mike Douglas and a few times on Merv Griffin. Many times on The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson. On The Michael Parkinson Show, and others, in England - and in the Phillipines, Japan, just about every talk show in Australia, and on and on.

On book promotion tours (I "did" 34 cities promoting my book, THE MEMORY BOOK (wherein I teach how to memorize a magazine)doing up to 17 (yes, that's 17) appearances - radio, TV, newspaper interviews - performing magazine memory at just about all of the.

And, if you check out volume 4 of my "Best Ever" DVD set, there's an hour of me doing some memory work for a lay audience - including magazine memory.

Of course, since I started teaching it back in my first book, people all over the world have learned it, and do it. So, have I imagined/dreamed all this? Whoever these people are (sorry, I never heard of them) in the original post of this thread - are they JOKING? Pretending? Lying? I don't know - just asking. Just wanted to straighten out the record a bit. Amazing to me. Anyway... Harry Lorayne
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Postby Harry Lorayne » 01/08/12 01:39 PM

Oops - when I wrote "up to 17 appearances" etc. - I meant in EACH city.
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Postby Harry Lorayne » 01/08/12 01:43 PM

Oh, and another "oops: I just love this: One of the lines on that site, advertising this "new" thing, is: "Yet little has been written about it till now - and some of what has been is fairly hard to find." End quote. My response - WHHAAATTT?! Just read my posts above. And re: "hard to find" - ANY book store, buddy. Or go to my magic website - harryloraynemagic.com - and click on "Memory Books." Yeah, that's gotta be a joke! HL.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 01/08/12 01:46 PM

Everything old is new again.

Goat: I'm an ee cummings fan, too!
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Postby Harry Lorayne » 01/08/12 02:28 PM

Ageless Memory is not "old" - in bookstores now (or available from me) along with a few other books of mine that teach how to memorize a magazine. So, "current" may be a better word. I may be "reading" it incorrectly, but I don't think certain things should be "excused." (I don't get the ee cummings thing. Sorry. HL.
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Postby Harry Lorayne » 01/08/12 03:13 PM

Oh, just went back and saw the ee cummings thing. Sorry.
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Postby Timothy Hyde » 01/08/12 05:36 PM

Hi Harry

Nice to have you onboard.
I wondered why interest in the book spiked overnight.

Thanks for clarifying which of your books contain material on the effect.

I still believe when I published mine it was the first to focus just on the one effect.

For reference, Bill Larsen Sr published his routine in Genii June 1940, so I guess he was doing it for quite some time before most of us.

Genii subscribers can also look up Bill Jrs routines in July '63, Sept '96

If you don't want anything to do with my book, I'm happy to remove my reference to your books, in particular a recomendation to purchase The Memory Book from the Resources section contained in the book.

Timothy


Full details and reviews available here
http://www.magiccoach.com/NBV2.htm
or
http://www.lybrary.com/magic-memory-mne ... 21_33.html
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Postby Harry Lorayne » 01/08/12 06:35 PM

No problem, didn't know you were mentioning a book of mine. Fine. I'd prefer you mention my site (harrylorayne.com), but again, no problem. Interesting that I never knew ANYTHING about the Larsen's on the subject. Best - Harry L.
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Postby Harry Lorayne » 01/08/12 06:37 PM

No problem, didn't know you were mentioning a book of mine. Fine. I'd prefer you mention my site (harrylorayne.com), but again, no problem. Interesting that I never knew ANYTHING about the Larsen's on the subject. Best - Harry L. (But - "Little has been written about it"???!)
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Postby Richard Hatch » 01/08/12 07:06 PM

Timothy Hyde wrote:I still believe when I published mine it was the first to focus just on the one effect.

For reference, Bill Larsen Sr published his routine in Genii June 1940, so I guess he was doing it for quite some time before most of us.

Bernard Zufall's MEMORY TRIX NO.1: MAGAZINE MEMORIZING is likely the first stand alone publication in English on this feat. It was reviewed by John Braun in the April 1940 issue of LINKING RING (p. 149), so predates the Bill Larsen Sr. article by a few months. It was probably "hot off the presses" at that time, as it uses the January 27, 1940 issue of Saturday Evening Post as an example. Of course, both performers would have been performing the feat for some time before that (A later reference to this booklet in that same issue - p. 192 - mentions Zufall's performance of the feat at several early IBM conventions). Zufall's monograph is still pretty easy to find and is available in a digital edition with his other 5 booklets on memory feats. The Memory one was also reprinted in LINKING RING in the April 1951 parade.

Incidentally, I am a satisfied purchaser of Timothy Hyde's fine monograph on the subject, even though I had other published material on the topic already. He includes many performance details obviously the result of his performing experience that help make the feat entertaining.
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Postby Joe Pecore » 01/08/12 07:50 PM

Another early routine in Genii was "My Genuine Magazine Test" by Orville W. Meyer in Genii, Vol. 3, No. 7, March 1938.
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Postby Richard Hatch » 01/08/12 07:52 PM

I just checked the June 1940 issue of GENII for the Larsen routine (Cosmopolitan Magazine Test by William and Geraldine Larsen, p. 116) and found that it is really a "pseudo-magazine" memory effect, more in the nature of a book test. One of three magazines is selected (equivoque) and then one of the pages listed in the table of contents (i.e., not any page in the magazine. This is much more restrictive) is called out, turned to, the digits of the page added together to determine a line on that page which the performer then recites. Larsen does advise using a mnemonic system to learn the two or three dozen lines involved in this version. In the April 1940 GENII Larsen thanks Zufall for sending his TRIX NO. 1 on magazine memorizing and praises it in his GENII SPEAKS column (p. 242). The Zufall booklet is advertised by both Zufall and Leo Rullman in the March 1940 SPHINX, so was presumably in print by then.
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Postby Harry Lorayne » 01/08/12 08:11 PM

Interesting - when I was very young, just a boy, and before I had any idea that memory work would be my career, I was memorizing a magazine and then doing a mindreading thing with it. (Had the person riffle the pages, stop wherever he liked, bend back one side so that he/she could really "concentrate". I saw that page, of course - and knew what he was "concentrating" on.) HL.
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Postby Timothy Hyde » 01/08/12 11:42 PM

Harry Lorayne wrote: No problem, didn't know you were mentioning a book of mine. Fine. I'd prefer you mention my site (harrylorayne.com), but again, no problem. Interesting that I never knew ANYTHING about the Larsen's on the subject. Best - Harry L.


Harry, I'll update the resource section of my book by adding a link through to your website. No problems. I'll also have another look at the sales page. Cheers Timothy
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Postby Timothy Hyde » 01/08/12 11:47 PM

Joe Pecore wrote:Another early routine in Genii was "My Genuine Magazine Test" by Orville W. Meyer in Genii, Vol. 3, No. 7, March 1938.



Joe, THANKS!

I had the Meyer routine listed in my section
but didn't have the Vol & Issue number

Timothy
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Postby Timothy Hyde » 01/08/12 11:56 PM

Richard Hatch wrote:
Incidentally, I am a satisfied purchaser of Timothy Hyde's fine monograph on the subject, even though I had other published material on the topic already. He includes many performance details obviously the result of his performing experience that help make the feat entertaining.


Richard, thanks for the comments, I really appreciate them.

The routine is still in most corporate shows I do.

Incidentally, there will be another supplement coming out soon.

I've only just managed to get hold of the Zufall Booklet in hardcopy. It too is in my Recommended Resources list that was adapted (with permission) from Scott Crams excellent list, of which I'm sure you are aware.

Timothy
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Postby Jinx5269 » 01/15/12 02:17 AM

Here is a bit more info on both the products mentioned in this thread, by someone who has actually read them both!

Selling the Show is not really a "marketing" book, it's a book on what to do once the phone rings. How to win the gig and how to up-sell your show to get better fees. The information is rock solid and will definitely help you. I run a national sales team in my "day job" and I can tell you, the information is based on sales methodology that works. Sean has been in the magic business for 15 years, and has taken those sales principles and applied them to the magic. If you get this book, absorb it and apply it, you will improved your bottom line. I recommend it.

I also recommend Timothy's manuscript on Magazine Memory, it sits on my bookshelf with all my memory books - including Harry's - and each adds valuable insight. I perform Magazine Memory all the time, and I use many of the insights contained in Timothy's manuscript.

I compete in the same market as both Sean and Timothy and I can tell you - they are tough competition. They are both extremely skilled mentalists and marketers, and when someone with their track record shares information, it is definitely worth reading.

All the best.

Nick
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Postby Anthony Vinson » 01/18/12 11:42 AM

Jeffrey Gitomer's Little Red Book of Selling and Little Red Book of Sales Answers are worth the cost of admission. I agree that most, if not all, sales method marketers are at least partially (mostly?) full of it, and Gitomer is no exception. I did some freelance work for the guy a few years back and recommend the two books mentioned above because the are filled will common sense advice, workable ideas and the occasional, often needed, Kick in the Seat of the Pants (intentional Roger Von Oech reference provided at no additional cost). The rest of Jeffrey's books are, in my opinion, of questionable value and exist mostly to pad his pockets.
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