Need help with gimmick production/design but trust no one.

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.
Xabi
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Need help with gimmick production/design but trust no one.

Postby Xabi » November 30th, 2011, 8:17 am

Hey,

I have come up with a way (in theory) to achieve an effect that as far as I know, has never been marketed, released or even performed.

One part of the routine has me quite stumped when it comes to putting theory into practice though.

Cutting massive parts of the routine / effect out, in short I need a way of rolling a playing card up as tightly as possible into a tube (width ways)to 5 mm in diameter.

Did I mention that this needs to be done in secret in about 20 - 30 seconds

If possible I need some kind of 'gizmo' that does all the rolling for me

I appreciate I am probably clutching at straws here but any ideas at all would be massively appreciated

Jonathan Townsend
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Re: Need help with gimmick production/design but trust no one.

Postby Jonathan Townsend » November 30th, 2011, 10:06 am

you could ask the craftsman about how to get a card into a cigarette. That problem, the roller and winder has been around for a century and may have some affordable solutions.
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

Bill Evans
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Re: Need help with gimmick production/design but trust no one.

Postby Bill Evans » November 30th, 2011, 11:31 am

Scotty York used to do a signed card into a borrowed cigarette but I don't think it was ever published. It was wonderful.

Xabi
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Re: Need help with gimmick production/design but trust no one.

Postby Xabi » November 30th, 2011, 1:12 pm

Jonathan Townsend wrote:you could ask the craftsman about how to get a card into a cigarette. That problem, the roller and winder has been around for a century and may have some affordable solutions.


thanks

when you say 'the craftsman' is that his Genii username?

'the roller and winder'? are these existing tools?

any refs or links would be really helpful

Xabi
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Re: Need help with gimmick production/design but trust no one.

Postby Xabi » November 30th, 2011, 1:16 pm

Bill Evans wrote:Scotty York used to do a signed card into a borrowed cigarette but I don't think it was ever published. It was wonderful.


was that not a bill to cigarette?

wonderful nonetheless

Bill Evans
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Re: Need help with gimmick production/design but trust no one.

Postby Bill Evans » November 30th, 2011, 2:59 pm

Xabi wrote:
Bill Evans wrote:Scotty York used to do a signed card into a borrowed cigarette but I don't think it was ever published. It was wonderful.


was that not a bill to cigarette?

wonderful nonetheless


Nope...card to cigarette...I saw him perform it many years ago at the bar he worked in Washington DC. Never have seen anything like it since.

Bill Evans
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Re: Need help with gimmick production/design but trust no one.

Postby Bill Evans » November 30th, 2011, 10:58 pm

I think it was probably a variation on Invisible Card To Cigarette, Collected Works Of Alex Emsley, Vol. 1, p. 274, L & L Publishing (1991), but it was 30 years ago and I've slept since then.

Philippe Billot
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Re: Need help with gimmick production/design but trust no one.

Postby Philippe Billot » December 1st, 2011, 3:35 am

See in Fred Kaps by Freddie Jelsma (1988).

Xabi
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Re: Need help with gimmick production/design but trust no one.

Postby Xabi » December 1st, 2011, 3:52 pm

Bill Evans wrote:I think it was probably a variation on Invisible Card To Cigarette, Collected Works Of Alex Emsley, Vol. 1, p. 274, L & L Publishing (1991), but it was 30 years ago and I've slept since then.


Many thanks

I only say that because a bill variation by Scotty was published.

Card to cigarette sounds great, signed even better, that's not necessarily what I am trying to achieve but seeing it would be very helpful for my ... research? (and I would just love to see it as a spectator)

Sadly I wasn't even born 30 years ago and have not seen anything like it in my lifetime.

Could I trouble you to describe the effect or atleast the revelation of the signed card?

I only ask because as I said before the particular effect I am working on actually requires the specs signed card to be rolled up.

I have seen signed card to cigarette effects that involve a puff of smoke here, a misdirecting flash there, some clever sleight of hand and a 'move' but no actual removing of a signed card from a perfectly formed cigarette (tailor made i.e not hand rolled).

Cheers Jamie

Xabi
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Re: Need help with gimmick production/design but trust no one.

Postby Xabi » December 1st, 2011, 3:53 pm

Philippe Billot wrote:See in Fred Kaps by Freddie Jelsma (1988).


Will check this out if I can find

thank you

Xabi
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Re: Need help with gimmick production/design but trust no one.

Postby Xabi » December 1st, 2011, 5:13 pm

Alex Emsley, Collected Works Vol. 1
Fred Caps, compiled by Jelsma

both are proving hard to find

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John M. Dale
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Re: Need help with gimmick production/design but trust no one.

Postby John M. Dale » December 1st, 2011, 11:37 pm

The Kaps book is listed as in stock here for $17.95.

Theres a copy of the Elmsley book on eBay here for the next 22 hours, at the time of this writing, (no bidders yet starting at $75) but it doesn't look as if they ship anywhere except here in the States (Since there are no bids so far, perhaps an inquiry offering to cover appropriate shipping costs might sway them.)

Good luck.

JMD
Last edited by John M. Dale on December 1st, 2011, 11:39 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason: Typing faster than my brain thinks

Xabi
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Re: Need help with gimmick production/design but trust no one.

Postby Xabi » December 2nd, 2011, 9:59 am

thanks JMD

have found a cheaper copy (incl shipping) of Fred Kaps at HankLee

thank you for the heads up on the Elmsley's book, such a shame this has become such a rarity

i'm hoping of course that either (hopefully both) of these versions will help me in my research

Xabi
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Re: Need help with gimmick production/design but trust no one.

Postby Xabi » December 12th, 2011, 2:05 pm

have performed 'selected card to sealed cigarette packet (inside cigarette)' quite a few times since posting which is going down very well

'signed card to sealed cigarette packet (folded)' also gets great reactions but still have not achieved my initially desired effect of 'freely selected signed card to sealed cigarette packet (inside cigarette)' has a ring to it...

The Fred Kaps book is as good as on it's way to me anyway, but still can't help but wonder if his effect actually involves removing the card from an actual cigarette and I suppose the same goes for Alex Elmsley's version.

Can anyone describe either effect to me specifically regarding the revelation?

Obviously I'm not asking for the method just the effect as seen by participant.

any help would be greatly appreciated

Philippe Billot
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Re: Need help with gimmick production/design but trust no one.

Postby Philippe Billot » December 13th, 2011, 6:42 am

Briefly, a spectator thinks of a card, names it then put this "invisible card" in an envelope. The magus begs a cigarette and lights it, then he hands his lighter to the spectator to burn the envelope "to vanish" the card. Then he breaks his cigarette to reveal a rolled card which is the one the spectator named at the start.

Xabi
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Re: Need help with gimmick production/design but trust no one.

Postby Xabi » December 13th, 2011, 5:55 pm

Many Thanks

Are Kaps' and Elmsley's the same effect/presentation?

I'm sure I've seen Derren Brown do something similar on Stephen Fry, only I think the thought of card was just rolled up, briefly lit, smoked, choked on and it is then realised that it is not actually a cigarette but the thought of card.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wr_OYd9CyK4

A1exM
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Re: Need help with gimmick production/design but trust no one.

Postby A1exM » December 14th, 2011, 1:30 pm

Xabi, you are very welcome to visit me in Somerset should you wish to read the Elmsley effect. 10 mins. M5 Jct. 25. I don't have the Kaps routine but have Derren's 'Smoke' which is published in 'Pure Effect'.
Hope this helps.
Regards Alex

Xabi
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Re: Need help with gimmick production/design but trust no one.

Postby Xabi » December 15th, 2011, 4:49 pm

A1exM wrote:Xabi, you are very welcome to visit me in Somerset should you wish to read the Elmsley effect. 10 mins. M5 Jct. 25. I don't have the Kaps routine but have Derren's 'Smoke' which is published in 'Pure Effect'.
Hope this helps.
Regards Alex


That is a very kind offer, it's not quite just down the road for me though to be honest.

Although if I had my own car at the moment I would probably succumbe.

All I really want to know is how the card is revealed (not the method) i.e from an actual cigarette or just rolled up in the same shape a la Derren Brown.

I haven't read Derren's Pure Effect seeing the performance find his participant's card selection/force more astounding than the revelation itself.

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Pete Biro
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Re: Need help with gimmick production/design but trust no one.

Postby Pete Biro » December 19th, 2011, 3:04 pm

Forget the signature...use Gaetan Bloom's INTERCESSOR. Force the card.

KEEP IT SIMPLE

Kaps always used the simplest methods.

CONCENTRATE ON THE PRESENTATION.
Stay tooned.

Brad Henderson
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Re: Need help with gimmick production/design but trust no one.

Postby Brad Henderson » December 19th, 2011, 3:18 pm

I have one of scotty's gimmicks I would sell at the right price. Larry Jones used to perform an amazing bill to cigarette routine, based in large measure on Tom mullica's.

As to signing v corner tearing - I think corner tearing is a weird way to mark something. Lay people accept it, but it's not the logical path one would take if their goal was to positively identify an object. Signing/marking is always a better choice when possible

I published a marked, serial number identified bill to block of ice years ago. When teller saw a performance of the piece be remarked that it fooled him and called it a thing of beauty, or something like that. (would have to find the email).

Its written up in the theory into practice notes.

Dale Shrimpton
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Re: Need help with gimmick production/design but trust no one.

Postby Dale Shrimpton » December 21st, 2011, 12:27 pm

I saw an advert for a device that rolls cards in the last week or so.
Cant remember where. you could always try a long split cotter pin.
shove the card in the split, and turn.

I would use thinner cards too.Manipulation cards , for example dont have teh thick core, and will roll up easy.

Xabi
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Re: Need help with gimmick production/design but trust no one.

Postby Xabi » December 23rd, 2011, 5:58 am

Brad Henderson wrote:I have one of scotty's gimmicks I would sell at the right price.


Would this be similar to the gimmick Dale Shrimpton can't remember?

Any more info would be appreciated.

I agree about the signing of the card as a convincer, I am comfortable forcing a duped card enabling me to produce a selected card from pretty much anywhere but much prefer the card to be freely selected and signed.

Xabi
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Re: Need help with gimmick production/design but trust no one.

Postby Xabi » January 12th, 2012, 11:53 am

Card rolling device?

Pete McCabe
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Re: Need help with gimmick production/design but trust no one.

Postby Pete McCabe » January 13th, 2012, 1:09 pm

If you can design the gimmick you can make it yourself with a Makerbot 3D printer.


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