Kaps Palm Change

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.

Postby Philippe Noël » 12/16/01 02:18 PM

In Expert Coin Magic, Richard explains that "David's technique(Palm Change) differs from both the method published in COINMAGIC and that used by the late Fred Kaps". What was the method used by Kaps? Where is it possible to find a description of this method?

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Postby Guest » 12/16/01 08:04 PM

Philippe,

The method similar to Fred Kaps' method was published by Richard in COINMAGIC.

The differences are mostly coin positioning. I tend to use a slightly modified version of the one in EXPERT COIN MAGIC.

Dan
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 12/16/01 08:12 PM

There seems to be a question as to who invented the Palm Change with coins and when. It is an old hustler's dice move (and an extremely difficult one).
The first person ANY of us saw do it was Earl Johnson, better known to New Yorkers as "Presto." This is where David Roth learned the sleight. Kaps was in New York on many occasions and had the opportunity to see Presto numerous times.
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Postby Guest » 12/16/01 08:17 PM

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
There seems to be a question as to who invented the Palm Change with coins and when. It is an old hustler's dice move (and an extremely difficult one).
The first person ANY of us saw do it was Earl Johnson, better known to New Yorkers as "Presto." This is where David Roth learned the sleight. Kaps was in New York on many occasions and had the opportunity to see Presto numerous times.


Richard you wrote in EXPERT COIN MAGIC that the move with coins is based on Earl Johnson's dice switch. Are you saying it is unclear who adapted it to coins first: Roth or Kaps?

Dan
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 12/16/01 08:27 PM

I'm sorry but I can't remember what the heck I wrote in Expert Coin Magic since it was 20 years ago, however, the dice switch is an old hustler's move, and the first person any of us saw who adapted the sleight to use with coins was Presto--Earl Johnson.
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Postby Jamy Ian Swiss » 12/17/01 12:21 AM

Earl "Presto" Johnson invented the Palm-to-Palm Change, which he called the one-handed palm switch. (It was eventually described under his name in the now defunct Hocus Pocus magazine.) It is adapted from the dice switch, but this should not in any way detract from the credit and originality of the move with coins, which is re-engineered for the purpose.

It is unlikely Kaps saw Presto. However, Scotty York learned the move from Presto during a chance encounter in Wash. D.C. (in Al's Magic, I believe), and it is quite possible that Scotty eventually showed it to Kaps. I believe that in the Presto handling the classic palmed coin flips over within the hand, while Kaps slid the coin without it turning over.
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Postby Guest » 12/18/01 07:47 AM

A few months ago I was on the verge of posting here with a query about the palm change.

I had been reading 'Coin Magic' and was practicing the palm change - however, I found it much more natural to let the coin drop without flipping. I think I was also re-watching David Stone's tape at the time too - and he used the 'coin magic' palm change too.

Then I opened up 'Expert Coin Magic' and felt a warm glow when I read Roth's description of the palm change, which was what I was doing.

The feeling was tinged with a little disapointment though, as for a little time I thought I'd 'discovered' a new move.

:D

Cheers,
Shafique
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Postby Guest » 12/18/01 08:16 AM

Shafique,

Like you I made a slightly different handling to overcome one slight problem I had with the printed methods. I don't know if my modification constitutes a new version or not, I would tend not to think so.

I don't like the COINMAGIC version's coin positioning, but prefer the EXPERT COIN MAGIC version for the coin positions.

The one thing that always gave me a problem with Roth's handling in EXPERT COIN MAGIC was the balancing of the coin on the ring fingertip before dropping the palmed coin into the fingers. In my hand, the palmed coin never falls far enough into my fingers. After the coin falls, I need to slightly drop my fingers to let the coin slide into a higher fingerpalm position. David Roth does this minor adjustment as well. I asked him about it at a workshop and I watched him do it in slow motion a few inches away from my face.

After some work I was able to do Roth's method, but because I have dry hands and dry fingertips, many times the adjustment to let the palmed coin slide higher into the fingers would cause the coin I was balancing on my fingertip to slide off.

My solution was this.....

I initially start with the coin held between the pointer and thumb fingertips in display. The coin is then slid back onto the ring fingertip. Instead of letting go with the thumb at this point, I let the palmed coin drop, and slide into high fingerpalm position. THEN I let go of the coin on the ring fingertip, and close the hand to palm and switch the coins.

I have never dropped the fingertip coin with this method, and it has worked very well for me.

Dan
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Postby Guest » 12/18/01 08:34 AM

Interesting - the way I've been doing the palm switch is slightly different too..

Whilst the coin does drop straight down, reading Dan's description above made me realise that I might not be doing it as described by Roth.

I display the coin between thumb and index finger.

Turn the wrist down and drop the coin straight onto pinky and third finger, almost at a finger tip rest position, not quite a high finger palm.

(At this point I have two coins at the fingertips, not touching)

As I make a fist the coin I actually use the middle (second) finger to push the first coin into classic palm.

Then I rotate the wrist to a vertical position, pushing up the switched coin with my thumb to the starting position.

From the spec's point of view, coin is visible at finger tips, the coin moves down, in an arc, then into a fist and then reappears in at the fingertips when the fist is opened.

Anyway - it is what works for me.

[ Not used to describing sleights, so apologies if anything is unclear, and happy to clarify any descriptions]

Cheers,
Shafique
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Postby Guest » 12/18/01 08:44 AM

Shafique,

What you describe is closer to the COINMAGIC version where the coins are almost side by side before you close into a fist.

Roth's version in EXPERT COIN MAGIC has the coins not side by side, but rather laying in line with each other on the fingers. (One coin laying on ring and middle finger, one coin laying on ring fingertip).

I am more comfortable with the Roth method, with the change I noted in my previous post.

Dan
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Postby Guest » 12/18/01 08:59 AM

Thanks for clarifying that Dan - I now have a convenient short-hand for describing what I do.

Therefore, I have just modified the Coin Magic version so that the coin falls straight down.

Cheers,
Shafique
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Postby Pete Biro » 12/26/01 11:21 PM

Note: Fred Kaps had 'H U G E' hands... he was able to do many moves his own way.

I used to kid him saying, "Fred, when you palm a card you have a finger left over."
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