Card in Box

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.

Postby Shawn Preston » 10/24/02 09:52 AM

I am looking for references to the card in box effect ala Fred Kaps. I recently saw Jamy Swiss perform his "kiss of the big apple" routine which is a beautiful piece of theater. I am inspired to develop my own but I would like to find some examples in print. Obviously I could simply fold a card and shuttle pass out of an altoids tin or similar, but I want motivation. How of others solved the plot. I know of routines by Tommy Wonder, Paul Gertner and John Bannon... does anyone out there know of others I may have missed?

thanks in advance
Shawn
The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. - Einstein
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Postby Remco » 10/24/02 10:06 AM

Michael close has also a version of the card in box. It is called "The Big surprise". It is on his tape (vol.4) "Too Close - the stand up magic of Michael Close"
It is also in his one of his books "Workers", but I don't know which one.
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Postby Shawn Preston » 10/24/02 10:12 AM

That's right! had forgotton about that one. thanks!
Shawn
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Postby Pete McCabe » 10/24/02 10:33 AM

I've said it before, but for my money the best handling of this effect is Richard Sanders "Castle Card in Coin Purse." It's on a video somewhere.

A small coin purse sits on the table. Card is selected, signed, etc. Magi takes the card purse and a small pair of tweezers. The purse is opened revealing a folded playing card.

The spectator removes the card from the purse with the tweezers.

Everything can be examined.

However if you're interested in different ideas for presentation, you might want to check out the Scotty York version where the card changes places with the inner workings of a pocket watch. Can't remember the reference but I think it's mentioned in Smoke and Mirrors.

Mike Close's version is also a good study in presentation. For starters, it's not a card trick at all.
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Postby Shawn Preston » 10/24/02 10:55 AM

Thanks Pete. I'm very intrigued by the Sanders effect. Can you give me any more info on which video it may be on. I'm only familiar with his Close Up Assassin video. Perhaps in a book or notes as well. Thanks in advance.

Shawn
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Postby Robert McDaniel » 10/24/02 11:12 AM

I believe it's on the Road Killers Video, isn't it?

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Postby Matthew Field » 10/24/02 01:08 PM

Originally posted by Robert M:
I believe it's on the Road Killers Video, isn't it?

Robert M
Yes, it is on "Roadkillers" and is worth the price of the video.

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Postby Shawn Preston » 10/24/02 03:01 PM

Thanks guys! I will check it out tonight. I started watching the Roadkillers video but never finished... (got caught up watching Bill Malone DVD's) I just read Bannon's version from Impossibilia where he combines Carlyle's homing card with the card to can. Sounds like a good routine. In the prologue to the aforementioned routine, Bannon mentions that once the performer brings out the can (or wallet for that matter) "the finale becomes quite apparent". In Jamy Swiss' routine he uses a candy jar that holds hershy's kiss's, and everything ties together nicely. I'm struggling with routining something together so as to NOT telegraph the ending...

the search continues...

in the faith
Shawn
The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. - Einstein
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Postby Guest » 10/24/02 03:33 PM

Kennedy Card Box
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Postby Shawn Preston » 10/24/02 03:53 PM

I think the Kennedy card box is an interesting prop, however I agree with the idea that something should be in the box with the card and the card should be able to move around. I believe Scotty York was the first to attache the gaff to the bottom of the box (or can or whatever) using a small piece of thread which allowed it to move around, but did not allow it to fall out. Jamy Swiss added the idea of putting something in the box that will fall out when the box is turned over, greatly adding to the illusion that the card was indeed in the box.

Still I press on...

Regards
Shawn
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Postby Guest » 10/24/02 05:01 PM

Both Albert Goshman and Frank Garcia had excellent versions of the card in change purse.

Mike
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Postby Jon Allen » 10/24/02 05:20 PM

I first got interested in the 'Card in Box' after seeing Jami's 'Kiss of the Big Apple' which is a fantastic routine. Mike Close's 'Surprise Box' is a wonderful variation of 'Card in Box' and addresses several problems associated with the effect.

I have only just recently released my 'Destination Box' which is the single most powerful piece of magic I do. It starts and finishes every close up set I do. To quote Mike Close, "The Destination Box IS new and provides the creative performer with some interesting pathways."

It allows for a locked wooden box to sit on the table until the finale. You open the box to reveal another box. Inside this one is a folded card. The person who signed the card removes it to reveal it is their card. The box is 100% examinable as well.

You are not just limited to using cards, but because the box is so far removed from the card trick, the revelation is a total surprise. It also solves several problems that are associated with the Card in Box routine.

Full details of it can be found at:
www.close-upmagician.com/destinationbox
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Postby Shawn Preston » 10/24/02 05:20 PM

OOOOHHH yeah! Another I had forgotton about (Goshman's) but do you know a reference for the Garcia version?

BTW thanks for all the help guys. I truly appreciate it.

Regards
Shawn
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Postby Guest » 10/24/02 07:45 PM

The destination box looks great.

Without revealing too much, am I right in assuming their is a clever loading method used when unlocking the box?
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Postby Guest » 10/25/02 12:09 AM

Chris Power from England has a great version, I saw Gary Kurtz doing it at a lecture in 1995 in Washington DC and a version from T. Wenk is in BEST OF FRIENDS. What I miss in all versions is the reason or the motivation why the spectator can not take the card out of the box by himself. This is not logical. Also I miss in the most routines the reason why the card is found there.
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Postby Jon Allen » 10/25/02 05:34 AM

Nicholas, I'm afraid to say there is no clever loading method as you unlock the box. There are no flaps or secret openings and it can be held by someone until required. If they want to examine it, they can do so.

Frank, the Destination Box *does* allow the person to be the one who removes the card. There is no dumping of the card or any moves once all the heat is on the card. This is an issue that gets brought up with the effect. Once the card is visible, you have to switch it but this is when all the attention is on the card.

The big advantage is that once the card is visible, I pause and let the audience figure out that this is going to be the signed card. I can then very slowly pass it over to be removed. It makes the ending so much stronger.
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Postby Richard Morrell » 10/25/02 07:00 AM

I spotted this on Murphy's this week which looks interesting, anyone seen this yet?

http://www.murphysmagicsupplies.com/cat ... tobox.html
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Postby Shawn Preston » 10/25/02 09:44 AM

Jon,
Thanks for the info. I saw your destination box on your video and it completely fooled me. A really great idea! At some point I really want to get one of those from you..

FrankW
Thanks for the info. Can you give me more info on the version you're speaking of from Kurtz? Is it his folded card in card box? Do you know which volume of Best of Friends contains the other version you mentioned?

Thanks guys!! I appreciate the info
in the faith
Shawn
The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. - Einstein
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Postby Pete McCabe » 10/25/02 10:00 AM

Gary Ouellet's handling of the Goshman Card to Purse is in Close-Up Illusions. I'm not familiar enough with Goshman's original to know how Gary's version differs. I can tell you that it requires lapping, but that the spectator can remove the card from the purse, which can be examined.

In many ways Richard Sanders' version is a stand-up handling of Gary's version.

A couple of weeks ago I had an idea for a new handling of this trick. It is doable and seems to me to have some promise, but to determine if it is really deceptive would require some work in front of real audiences. Since I'm an amateur I just don't perform enough to stress-test this idea. So here it is -- anybody who wants to try it out is welcome to.

You start by showing what looks like a cups and balls cup, with a cover over the open end. You remove the cover and take out a shot glass.

The shot glass is placed on the table and the cup is inverted over it.

After the card is signed, etc., you remove the cup, revealing a folded card in the shot glass. This is handed to the spectator who unfolds it to reveal their signed selection.

The method is very simple. A folded duplicate card is in the cup. It stays in the cup when the shot glass is removed. When the cup is inverted over the shot glass the duplicate falls into the glass.

With the folded selection palmed in the left hand, the right hand lifts the cup to reveal that there's a card in the shot glass., and you put the cup down mouth up just behind the glass.

Now when you do the standard shuttle-pass action, you dump the duplicate past your left hand and it disappears into the mouth-up cup. (Obviously the cup needs felt or similar inside to kill the sound). You can now put the shot glass down on the table and hand the card out for unfolding, etc.

In the mirror this works pretty well, but that doesn't mean too much in the real world. But there's a very pleasing simplicity to it all. Plus after the trick, you put the shot glass back into the cup, put on the cover, and you are reset. Finally the cover cup acts as a carrying case, protecting the glass.

Anybody wants to try this out, I'd love to hear how it works.
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Postby Shawn Preston » 10/25/02 10:05 AM

Pete,
I love your idea, thanks. NOW I have something to do this weekend. I really take perverse pleasure in going on "scavenger hunts" looking for props for a particular idea. Again thank you.

all the best
Shawn
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Postby Guest » 10/25/02 11:18 AM

Hello magicdude, all versions I wrote about are working with folded cards.
G. Kurtz routine is in "Notes from the summit" June 1995,
T.Wenk's routine can be found in Volume 1 page 274
and another version without a folded card can be found in Apocalypse Vol.8 No.3. It is Robert Bengel's Point in Case and is a version from Paul Gertner, also published before in Apocalypse or in his book with great other presentation ideas for card in box.
If the card box is not a must for you, than is Jon Allen's Destination Box the best thing I can recommanded.
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Postby Guest » 10/28/02 02:50 AM

I remember Pepe Carroll, mundial champion in cardmagic, years ago doing a routine where calculator gave the hints to the location of card; by numbers, and letters. If you turn upside down a calculator you could read several letters and words like:SHOE..... The ending was the card apearing inside batteries comparment. Was a very pretty idea of giving meaning to the overall routine. It was included in his books "52 lovers".
Many, many years ago. Fu Manch's friend "Roden" did a cards to pocket routine, the climax was that after emptying the pockets on the table ( keys, clips, silks, matchbox..)and doing the cards to pockets effects inside the matchbox that was on the table was the last card.
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Postby Shawn Preston » 10/28/02 12:22 PM

I did look at Jos Carrols version from his book and have played around with it a bit. Does anyone know if David Regal has explored this plot? His material always seems very well thought out and perfectly motivated. thanks in advance.

all the best
Shawn

Ps
I also have found a rather interesting version i "The Book" by the flicking fingers. The spectators card ends up in a container folded and wrapped by a rubber band. Check it out
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Postby Guest » 11/06/02 01:26 PM

The Simplex Card To Box is a normal box that that uses an old principle in coin magic. no gimmicks, just a routine. It is OK but nothing special.
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Postby Guest » 11/06/02 01:59 PM

There are a couple of clever versions on the "Card To Box" theme in The Greater Artful Dodges of Eddie Fields. There is the Fields' routine and two Marlo variations. Very clever!

Regards,
Todd Ziegler
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 11/06/02 05:35 PM

Tony Giorgio had a very fine handling of the Card to Matchbox in Genii years ago.
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine
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Postby Shawn Preston » 11/06/02 05:57 PM

Todd,
Fortunately I just bought the great artful dodges book. Thanks I'll take a look.

Richard, thanks for the reference. I remember reading it quite awhile back. Do you know which issue?

regards
Shawn
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Postby Guest » 11/06/02 06:08 PM

Magicdude:
You are really going to enjoy The Greater Artful Dodges of Eddie Fields. There are some really great tricks in that book. I especially like the stories about Fields and Marlo. Here are some other things to check out in this book:
Unlimited Card To Case (Marlo), Bux Stop (I do this all the time), The Invisible Pen Mystery (A GREAT application idea), Silent Transmission Telephone Mystery, Cool Spel (Cool Card Control), No Further Than This, Quintile (Try this with marked cards-wow!), the next 11 tricks (pages 105-133) are really nice too.

I do recommend reading through the WHOLE book, though. It is really an excellent read.

Regards,
Todd Ziegler
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Postby Guest » 11/07/02 04:03 AM

Hi folks
Do we need a gimmicked box to do this routine?
No,regards on the "simplex card to box" routine.
I had 3 goals when I came up with this routine.
No duplicate card, no suttle pass, and the card can be remouved by the spectator.
And I did it.
Coming with the card to box routine, there is also a lot of ideas using this box.
Hope this help you
see ya
arthur
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Postby Jon Allen » 11/07/02 07:27 AM

(Arthur, it was a pleasure t meet you at the French convention last w/e.)

Arthur Tivoli's Simplex Card to Box is a very simple idea but effective. His 3 part criteria for Card to Box (no duplicate card, no shuttle pass with it, and the card being removed by the person who signed it) is something few versions can claim.

I'm wondering how important it is for people that the card is removed form the box by the person who signed the card, rather than the magician? For me, it allows a much more dramatic finale. It enables me to pause with the card inside the box, rather than dumping it out, then pausing for effect with the card in my hand. Personally, the image of the card inside the box it sits in is very important.

Arthur's version and my Destination Box, while both fulfilling the same criteria, come from totally different angles (not to mention style of box!) and, after reading the description, it was interesting to see his method.
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Postby Guest » 11/07/02 08:55 AM

Hi Folks

I've just seen during the french magic congres the card to box routine from my friend John Allen( I'm sure I can say that,isn't it?)is also a wonderfull version.
I mean if I didn't come up with my version I would be very jalous from the john's box.
he made a wonderfull box in wood.....
great job.
see ya
arthur
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Postby Pete Biro » 11/07/02 09:03 AM

Years ago Sam Berland marketed "Card in Purse."
Goshman did the same effect.
Tony Georgio did it with a matchbox.
Persi Diaconis invented the idea of a rattling card on thread inside card box, which became a hit in the hands of Fred Kaps.
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Postby Jon Allen » 11/07/02 09:08 AM

Originally posted by Pete Biro:

Persi Diaconis invented the idea of a rattling card on thread inside card box, which became a hit in the hands of Fred Kaps.
I thought Scotty York had the idea of the thread attached to the card.
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Postby Guest » 11/07/02 09:13 AM

HI folks
I think that Peter is right...
In the kaps'hands it was a miracle.
see ya
arthur
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Postby Shawn Preston » 11/07/02 10:04 AM

I just picked up mr Tivoli's card in box and I think its a wonderful idea. I'm surprised no on has thought of it sooner. Way to go Arthur.

I would agree that having a spectator remove the card is ultimately stronger, but with proper presentation, choreography and timing, a shuttle pass switch is just as good. Obviously getting the proper presentation, choreography and timing is the tough part. Jon's card to box fooled the #$$% out of me on his video. when I can afford it, I WILL add it to my collection.

Todd, thanks for the info, hopefully this weekend I can spend some quality time with that book and take a close look at the routines you mentioned.

in the faith
Shawn
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Postby Jon Allen » 11/07/02 10:06 AM

Shawn,

I'll keep one out the back for you!

Jon
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Postby Shawn Preston » 11/07/02 10:34 AM

Jon,

You rock! thanks

Regards
Shawn
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Postby Pete McCabe » 11/07/02 10:59 AM

I think Jon Allen makes a great point. For some performers, the moment where you show the card, then stand there for a second, then remove the card slowly, etc. is paramount.

For other performers this may not be so. I saw Steve Valentine do his card to Altoids tin at the Castle. This was the climax of a long routine where the card goes into his wallet three times. At the end he opens the Altoids tin, which the spectator has been holding, and shows the card. His method uses a shuttle pass, although he has cleverly gaffed the tin so that he can show it empty when he sets it down (which I think mitigates the switch a little).

In Steve's very high energy style, the shuttle pass is no big deal. For other performers this may be the case. Once again, the performer's character drives everything.

I'd be interested to see Arthur's Simplex Card to Box. Is there a video demo anywhere? The only other version I know that meets his three conditions is the Richard Sanders trick previously mentioned.
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Postby Pete Biro » 11/07/02 11:47 PM

fUNNY.... was just going over some old videos and found one with Kaps doing the card in box with Bro. John Hamman as the spectator.

Hamman seemed to be "blown away" by Fred's handling. :cool:
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Postby Guest » 11/08/02 05:08 AM

Dear Peter
Unfortunatly,you can't see it , cause I didn't shoot a tape for that trick.
BTW the big interest in that box is that you can do a lot of different tricks, that means that the box is quite versatil.
see ya
arthur
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