Best rising card gimmick?

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Xabi
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Best rising card gimmick?

Postby Xabi » October 10th, 2011, 4:10 pm

Hi People

was considering buying Kundalini rising but i'm having doubts

any suggestions?

and links to perfrmances would be gr8

many thanks in advance

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erdnasephile
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Re: Best rising card gimmick?

Postby erdnasephile » October 10th, 2011, 4:30 pm

Here you go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlYC0o52 ... re=related

FWIW, I think there are better seemingly impromptu gimmicked card rises--Gary Plant's comes to mind.

If you want something that's somewhat similar to Kundalini rising, but much more versatile, try this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlYC0o52 ... re=related (at 1:39)

(You can find it--along with a whole bunch of other good stuff in Tarbell 7)

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John M. Dale
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Re: Best rising card gimmick?

Postby John M. Dale » October 10th, 2011, 8:25 pm

erdnasephile wrote:Here you go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlYC0o52 ... re=related

FWIW, I think there are better seemingly impromptu gimmicked card rises--Gary Plant's comes to mind.

If you want something that's somewhat similar to Kundalini rising, but much more versatile, try this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlYC0o52 ... re=related (at 1:39)

(You can find it--along with a whole bunch of other good stuff in Tarbell 7)


Your second link is the same as the first one.

JMD

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erdnasephile
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Re: Best rising card gimmick?

Postby erdnasephile » October 10th, 2011, 8:27 pm

Thanks for pointing that out, John. My bad.

Here is the correct second link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQrNm1I1x_I

(Rising card starts around 1:39)

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erdnasephile
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Re: Best rising card gimmick?

Postby erdnasephile » October 10th, 2011, 8:29 pm

The other close-up card rise I really like is MOFO, which can just slay people. Very clever thinking.

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Re: Best rising card gimmick?

Postby El Mystico » October 11th, 2011, 2:46 am

Is there a source for getting a Devano deck with a pin rather than a sticky pad?

Thanks

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mrgoat
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Re: Best rising card gimmick?

Postby mrgoat » October 11th, 2011, 3:49 am

I have a feeling davenports do them with a pin, they certainly used to.

I'm near there today, I can pop it for you.

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Re: Best rising card gimmick?

Postby SteveP » October 11th, 2011, 5:01 am

Kundalini Rising is a great effect. I've been using this effect since the late 80's when McBride first put it out.

Like Dual Control you can use it on any deck and the deck can be handed out before and after. Unlike Dual Control, you don't need to wear a jacket, however there is a lot more you can do with Dual Control. Certainly a tool worth mastering.

Devano Decks with a pin - George Richbark sells them:

http://www.richbark.com/m_closeup.html

Personally I've always found the sticky pad more reliable. The cards slip very easily from the pin. Don Alan even had problems with the pin gimmick. On the DVD he did for Stevens Magic he had to go back and reset the gaff in the middle of the routine because the card slipped off.

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Best rising card gimmick?

Postby Richard Kaufman » October 11th, 2011, 10:12 am

David Britland's "Angel Card Rise" predates "Kundalini Rising" and I've been told that the method is quite similar.
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Steve Bryant
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Re: Best rising card gimmick?

Postby Steve Bryant » October 11th, 2011, 10:25 am

This certainly depends on your definition of quite similar. You can do the Kundalini version with anyone's deck, any time, so long as you carry the something extra (and that itself is extremely easy to do; you could do so in the nude, in fact). (Pardon the image!)

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erdnasephile
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Re: Best rising card gimmick?

Postby erdnasephile » October 11th, 2011, 11:00 am

IMHO, one of the issues with the basic M.O. employed by Kundalini, Cardini's Card Rise, Dual Control, etc, occurs at the very end of the rise.

If one is not careful to "put the brakes on" at the end, the resultant jump of the card gives up the game.

Also, if you're going to do a rising card, I think one should give some thought as to what they will do with the other hand during the rise. (It's rare to see anyone do something that doesn't look lame when the card rises.)

Finally, that famous line in Greater Magic declares how much the public loves the rising card, but in this day and age of tiny electronic marvels, I wonder if that appeal persists--especially in methods where the deck is not borrowed/examinable.

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Re: Best rising card gimmick?

Postby Doomo » October 11th, 2011, 11:58 am

I don't often jump in on this kind of thing... BUT... I kind of like my own card rise best... Go figure...

Borrowed deck
No threads
No wires
No weights
No magnets
No forces

And inside a sealed ziplock bag...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plHWDiYBuwI

I have tried them all... So I came up with my own..

I seldom promote my own stuff on here... I am very proud of MoFo...
RFA Productions yeah... It is cool stuff.

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Re: Best rising card gimmick?

Postby Jonathan Townsend » October 11th, 2011, 12:13 pm

? folks seem averse to the NEMO approach. A larger glass, an envelope and as long as the cards have some finish you are pretty much set to go.

Something about the longer line that has folks risk averse?
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

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Re: Best rising card gimmick?

Postby SteveP » October 11th, 2011, 3:00 pm

I guess the Nemo rise could be used close-up, but it seems to be a more restrictive setup. The other effects allow for free selections, whereas the Nemo requires 3 forces.

Also I'm not sure three cards rising are better than one. After that first card rises, the audience gets it and there has to be something unique about the other two. The envelope ending on the Nemo rise never made sense to me. Why is there an envelope in the deck?

At least with the Devano, you can make each rise seem more impossible - start with the cards in a glass covered with a silk, then spread against the glass for the second rise and finally in the card box in the spectator's hand.

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Re: Best rising card gimmick?

Postby Jonathan Townsend » October 11th, 2011, 3:14 pm

There are no forces in the Nemo rise. They take cards, one goes into an envelope and two are pushed into the pack.
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

BrianB2
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Re: Best rising card gimmick?

Postby BrianB2 » October 11th, 2011, 3:22 pm


SteveP
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Re: Best rising card gimmick?

Postby SteveP » October 11th, 2011, 4:06 pm

Jonathan Townsend wrote:There are no forces in the Nemo rise. They take cards, one goes into an envelope and two are pushed into the pack.


I was just going from the Paul Daniels clip that Stevens Magic is using for the demo and he does force three cards from a regular size deck and does the rising cards with a jumbo deck.

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erdnasephile
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Re: Best rising card gimmick?

Postby erdnasephile » October 11th, 2011, 4:43 pm

There is no force described in the original Ken Brooke instructions.

That said, I think the envelope is an ending that doesn't make the best sense (to me personally), but at least it is an ending.

A lot of sequential rising card routines really could use logical endings.

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Re: Best rising card gimmick?

Postby Jonathan Townsend » October 11th, 2011, 6:00 pm

There's a stage/parlor item where a card rises with its back to the audience and then flips around. Not directly examinable but it's cute.
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Xabi
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Re: Best rising card gimmick?

Postby Xabi » October 11th, 2011, 6:00 pm

erdnasephile wrote:Finally, that famous line in Greater Magic declares how much the public loves the rising card, but in this day and age of tiny electronic marvels, I wonder if that appeal persists--especially in methods where the deck is not borrowed/examinable.


Never really been interested myself but everyone asks me to do it and I can't really be bothered to attempt to make my own.

Many thanks for all the suggestions.

I kinda know most methods but was interested in what other mags prefer to use.

I want to avoid 'line' work if ya get me.

I always understood that it's advisable to hold the Kundalini up higher to avoid 'dying', but can you not replace all the cards back in the box for the magic to happen?

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Re: Best rising card gimmick?

Postby SteveP » October 11th, 2011, 6:11 pm

Jonathan Townsend wrote:There's a stage/parlor item where a card rises with its back to the audience and then flips around. Not directly examinable but it's cute.


That's Levent's effect, the Roto-Riser Deck.

erdnasephile wrote:
A lot of sequential rising card routines really could use logical endings.


The late David Alexander talked about this issue with the effect. He used to use a Martin Card Rise and Frakson's routine. He often used the phrase "turning novelty into surprise". The challenge is making the second and third card interesting because after the first card, the audience gets it. The first card rises and the novelty is over.

David also wasn't a fan of the Nemo card rise and hated the envelope ending. David ended his card rise with a moving pip card. I don't know if it's a logical ending, but getting the card wrong (surprise) and magically correcting it is stronger than the illogical ending of an envelope in a deck of cards.

Martin Lewis uses Cardiographic as an ending for the Hathaway Houlette and that is a better, more logical ending for the effect.

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Re: Best rising card gimmick?

Postby Pete Biro » October 11th, 2011, 6:17 pm

You need to dig and find the Paul Fox Rising Cards. Normal deck no gimmicks in deck. Nice houlette, simple handling.
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Re: Best rising card gimmick?

Postby Jeff Haas » October 11th, 2011, 7:57 pm

Steve, are you sure that he's referring to the Levent gag? I distinctly remember Mark Wilson (or maybe it was Bill Bixby) doing that type of gag, but it looked different than the Levent one. Probably a flap.

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luigimar
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Re: Best rising card gimmick?

Postby luigimar » October 11th, 2011, 8:48 pm

How about a rising cards with no gimmicks? I seem to remember Derek Dingle and/or John Cornelius doing a rising card with nothing but their fingers but it looked as if the card was just rising. Of course they were doing something with their fingers but you couldn't see it. All fingers and thumb were visible at all times.
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erdnasephile
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Re: Best rising card gimmick?

Postby erdnasephile » October 11th, 2011, 9:25 pm

The Dingle Card rise indeed uses a gimmick (and a "super" one at that).

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erdnasephile
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Re: Best rising card gimmick?

Postby erdnasephile » October 11th, 2011, 9:26 pm

Steve Pellegrino wrote:
Jonathan Townsend wrote:There's a stage/parlor item where a card rises with its back to the audience and then flips around. Not directly examinable but it's cute.


That's Levent's effect, the Roto-Riser Deck.

erdnasephile wrote:
A lot of sequential rising card routines really could use logical endings.


The late David Alexander talked about this issue with the effect. He used to use a Martin Card Rise and Frakson's routine. He often used the phrase "turning novelty into surprise". The challenge is making the second and third card interesting because after the first card, the audience gets it. The first card rises and the novelty is over.

David also wasn't a fan of the Nemo card rise and hated the envelope ending. David ended his card rise with a moving pip card. I don't know if it's a logical ending, but getting the card wrong (surprise) and magically correcting it is stronger than the illogical ending of an envelope in a deck of cards.

Martin Lewis uses Cardiographic as an ending for the Hathaway Houlette and that is a better, more logical ending for the effect.


Hi, Steve: I've not seen Martin's combination routine. Has he published it somewhere?

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Re: Best rising card gimmick?

Postby El Harvey Oswald » October 11th, 2011, 10:10 pm

i always found some satisfaction in knowing what a "houlette" was as a 12 year old

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Re: Best rising card gimmick?

Postby SteveP » October 11th, 2011, 10:45 pm

Jeff Haas wrote:Steve, are you sure that he's referring to the Levent gag? I distinctly remember Mark Wilson (or maybe it was Bill Bixby) doing that type of gag, but it looked different than the Levent one. Probably a flap.


Levent's is the only one I'm familiar with. I had never seen that effect/gag prior to Levent. I wouldn't doubt something came before it.

erdnasephile wrote:Hi, Steve: I've not seen Martin's combination routine. Has he published it somewhere?


Martin includes the routine on DVD with the Hathaway Houlette that he sells. I used to own it which is where I saw it. I was surprised because I was so used to seeing Cardiographic as a stand-alone effect and here he was using it as the finale of a larger routine. It was very clever and it made sense.

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Re: Best rising card gimmick?

Postby erdnasephile » October 12th, 2011, 9:36 am

Thx, Steve, it was right under my nose the whole time...

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Re: Best rising card gimmick?

Postby mrgoat » October 12th, 2011, 9:44 am

Steve Pellegrino wrote:
erdnasephile wrote:
A lot of sequential rising card routines really could use logical endings.


The late David Alexander talked about this issue with the effect. He used to use a Martin Card Rise and Frakson's routine. He often used the phrase "turning novelty into surprise". The challenge is making the second and third card interesting because after the first card, the audience gets it. The first card rises and the novelty is over.

David also wasn't a fan of the Nemo card rise and hated the envelope ending. David ended his card rise with a moving pip card. I don't know if it's a logical ending, but getting the card wrong (surprise) and magically correcting it is stronger than the illogical ending of an envelope in a deck of cards.

Martin Lewis uses Cardiographic as an ending for the Hathaway Houlette and that is a better, more logical ending for the effect.


I like Steve Cohen's approach of making each rise more impossible, ending with the cards in a pair of inverted glasses, isolated by a bell jar.

Each rise is made more impossible.

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Re: Best rising card gimmick?

Postby Jonathan Townsend » October 12th, 2011, 9:50 am

El Harvey Oswald wrote:i always found some satisfaction in knowing what a "houlette" was as a 12 year old


A trowel? a baton? Talk about calling a gardening impliment out of its name ;)

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erdnasephile
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Re: Best rising card gimmick?

Postby erdnasephile » October 12th, 2011, 11:19 am

Martin Lewis has a very clever close-up card rise under glass in his book.

Speaking of what to do with your hands when the card rises, here's David Regal's approach: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xxa6UvsPVl4 (Kind of reminds me of Soul Train :grin:).

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Re: Best rising card gimmick?

Postby Xakary » November 24th, 2011, 5:32 am

Kundalini rising, hands down (well, actually, hand up for those who know the routine). There is nothing like the magic happening in the audience member's hands, with the magician standing nowhere near. Extra points for the ability to use a borrowed deck, but not critical. More extra points for allowing the deck to be returned or examined after the routine, and you're clean. It takes good audience control and some guts, but it works well.
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Xabi
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Re: Best rising card gimmick?

Postby Xabi » November 30th, 2011, 7:46 am

I did go for the Kundalini version

it's great but I feel stupid because I already had it (or at least everything needed to make my own

what do you expect when you buy commercial tricks?

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Re: Best rising card gimmick?

Postby Xakary » December 12th, 2011, 11:50 pm

Don't feel stupid. In addition to the "parts" for the trick, you're also getting insight into the performance of it, and supporting the magician who created it. Plus, this one isn't very expensive anyway. Good luck with it!
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Xabi
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Re: Best rising card gimmick?

Postby Xabi » December 13th, 2011, 5:46 pm

True, you are provided with very helpful and somewhat inspirational material here, McBride's Kundalini story / script is wonderful.

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Re: Best rising card gimmick?

Postby El Harvey Oswald » December 13th, 2011, 10:02 pm

Please make obligatory trip to Magic Cafe for pedantic "there is no such thing as 'best'" assault.


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