Zarrow shuffle

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.

Postby Guest » 06/19/07 05:40 PM

What is the preferred, authorized, resource for learning the Zarrow Shuffle?
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Postby Jim Maloney_dup1 » 06/19/07 05:47 PM

David Ben (who's working on a book with Herb Zarrow), had this to say back in February:

The best description of the shuffle so far is perhaps the first description of it in The New Phoenix, No. 346, although the illustration is, if not wrong, misleading. The description in Epilogue is not too bad, but still misses some fine points. The way that I learned the shuffle, before running it by Herb for his comments and corrections, was to listen to the DVD, Zarrow on the Zarrow. The reason I say, "listen" to the DVD is because at the very beginning of the DVD, Herb states that although he can no longer really do the shuffle, he knows what needs to be done, and can teach it. So, I decided then and there to learn it from his words, rather than from the visual representation. It made a huge difference. The good news is that we are nearing completion of Herb's book and it will have a very detailed description of the shuffle, its nuances and variations.
( Full thread here )

-Jim
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Postby Guest » 06/19/07 05:58 PM

Thank you Jim.

I guess since I have waited THIS long to learn it, I will wait a bit more for the publication of Mr. Ben's book.
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Postby Guest » 06/19/07 06:07 PM

I would assume that the description in Card College would be good. I would be surprised if it wasn't.

You should check it out.
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Postby George Olson » 06/19/07 07:25 PM

Don't forget Gary Plants work in his Monograph on the subject.

GO
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Postby Guest » 06/19/07 08:56 PM

Ay carumba, Senor Maloney--That was an hell of an interesting thread! I am chagrinned I missed it as it was unfolding...

1st, Mr. Ben is acknowledged as being THE Man, thus I can't wait for the Zarrow book, to learn the Word.

Next, hear hear, Pierrdedan!
I never knew Marlo was such a shyster! An article about Marlo through The Head Genii's eyes would be genius. Add Mr. Racherbaumer's insights, and WHOA Nelly, would THAT be a barn-burner!

Next, I agree Mr. Reynolds got a bit wound-up, but it happens, and I like his stick-to-it-iveness.

Finally, Edinburgh Ian, I was glad to add your name to the list I've been compiling over the years of people to whom "Tilt" occured independantly, but were born too late to be credited.
When I first started in magic, around 1976 or 77--I was of course, every-bit as clueless as many junior-high-aged magic-types...
Never-the-less, as a blind hen occasionally stumbles upon a kernel of corn (I hear they say) one day I was playing with a deck of cards (noodling, diddling, fiddling--as we do), and when I stuck a card into the deck, "The Vernon Depth Illusion" just kind of happened for me. I thought--"Huh. That makes it look like you're sticking the card in the middle of the deck. Huh."
Then I (magi-moron that I have proven to be) filed that a-WAY back in my mind until a few years later when I officially learned Dai Vernon had amazingly predicted the move I would come up with years later...(Paul Harris' line...)

Viva Vernon!!
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Postby Guest » 06/25/07 04:12 PM

Well, I learned it from a friend of mine when we were going back and forth playing with Triumph. I didn't learn all the little mechanics but I learned the basics of the move and from there I conpared it to a dovetail shuffle and modified it little by little till I was satisfied they appeared the same.
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Postby Guest » 06/26/07 04:56 AM

It's described and demonstrated on Michael Ammar's ETMCM 7, I think, in conjunction with the trick "Two Shuffles Harry"
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Postby Harry Lorayne » 06/26/07 06:57 AM

Two Shuffles Harry, of course, was taken right out of APOCALYPSE - without permission. Oh well... hl
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Postby Pete Biro » 06/26/07 08:48 AM

Uh, how about Herb's video? I men, he's THE MAN. I learned "touches" from Francis Carlysle.
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Postby Guest » 06/26/07 09:59 AM

I am really looking forward to David Ben's analysis of the Zarrow. Until then, I have been using Gary Plants excellent approach from his manuscript Gary Plants on the Zarrow Shuffle.

Regards,

Paul H
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Postby Guest » 08/03/07 11:34 PM

Originally posted by Harry Lorayne:
Two Shuffles Harry, of course, was taken right out of APOCALYPSE - without permission. Oh well... hl
Two Shuffles Harry, a Brother John Hamman effect, was published in Apocalypse, 1978, in a version requiring a full deck set up, in Richard's Almanac in 1987, in a "From Shuffled Deck In Use" version, and finally in The Secrets Of Brother John Hamman, 1989, again, requiring no setup.

I have no idea which version Ammar used, but I assume that if he wanted permission, he would have asked Brother John Hamman.
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Postby Harry Lorayne » 08/04/07 08:53 AM

Not really, James - since each issue of APOCALYPSE is copyrighted, he should have asked ME for permission. hl
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Postby Guest » 08/04/07 03:11 PM

That's not technically correct, from a legal standpoint. He would only be infringing on your copyright if he had published your precise written explanation. Neither of the subsequent written explanations was a breach, nor was the visual/verbal explanation on the Ammar tape - assuming Ammar had permission from Hamman/Kaufman.
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Postby Harry Lorayne » 08/04/07 03:44 PM

I know you're right, Joe, just needed to post my thought. I doubt if any permission, from anyone, was asked for. From what I understand, it's nothing new. Credit SHOULD HAVE BEEN GIVEN TO APOCALYPSE. Imagine if I did something like that? There's be screams all over the magic world. HL
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 08/04/07 04:43 PM

It's my understanding, because I recall asking at the time, that Brother Hamman gave Michael Ammar permission to include the routine.
And that's exactly what Brother Hamman would have done--he was generous with his material, not restrictive.
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Postby Ian Kendall » 08/05/07 01:16 AM

I remember that Ammar phoned Roy at his shop to ask if he could teach Card Warp on one of the early tapes, which would imply that he did seek permission where possible.

Take care, Ian
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Postby Guest » 08/05/07 01:41 AM

That's good, and only fair, since Roy also asked Busby for permission to publish his variation of the Busby effect that inspired Card Warp. Right?

Is that right? I mean. That must be right. Right?
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 08/05/07 08:28 AM

Pike, you do like to cause trouble.

No, it's not the same and no, Roy probably did not ask permission--nor should he have had to.

Busby's "Into the 4th Dimension" was a torn and restored card routine which included an insignificant phase where a card was passed through the hand and seemed to turn over. It was awkward and would have vanished unnoticed into history (actually it's already done that) if Roy Walton hadn't recognized that buried among the crap was a good idea. Roy turned what was a forgetable throw-away into a perfect piece of magic. In fact, it's a candidate for the best trick of the latter half of the 20th century.
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Postby Ryan Matney » 08/05/07 11:36 AM

I wonder why Joe Pike has a grudge against Roy Walton? Makes twice now he has said something about Roy...
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Postby Guest » 08/05/07 02:27 PM

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
Pike, you do like to cause trouble.

No, it's not the same and no, Roy probably did not ask permission--nor should he have had to.

Busby's "Into the 4th Dimension" was a torn and restored card routine which included an insignificant phase where a card was passed through the hand and seemed to turn over. It was awkward and would have vanished unnoticed into history (actually it's already done that) if Roy Walton hadn't recognized that buried among the crap was a good idea. Roy turned what was a forgetable throw-away into a perfect piece of magic. In fact, it's a candidate for the best trick of the latter half of the 20th century.
Actually, I think your analysis is correct. I was, as you noted, trying to generate discussion. The whole thing of who should ask permission for what is not as simple or clear cut as Harry Lorayne suggests in the Hamman example.

As to Ryan Matney statistically tracking my posts... that's just plain creepy.

Joe
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Postby Harry Lorayne » 08/05/07 03:50 PM

Honestly I'm well aware that it is not "clear cut" legally. Ethically, however, is another discussion. hl
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Postby Ryan Matney » 08/06/07 02:19 PM

Originally posted by Joe Pike: As to Ryan Matney statistically tracking my posts... that's just plain creepy.

Joe [/QB]
Creepy is you trying to start an argument about Roy every chance you get.
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Postby Guest » 08/06/07 02:34 PM

Mr. Ben, how goes the progress on your eagerly-anticipated (Zarrow and Dai Vernon) projects?

I hope and trust all is well. :)
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Postby Guest » 08/06/07 02:59 PM

Originally posted by Ryan Matney:
Originally posted by Joe Pike: As to Ryan Matney statistically tracking my posts... that's just plain creepy.

Joe
Creepy is you trying to start an argument about Roy every chance you get. [/QB]
In an earlier thread I posted that Roy Walton is similar to Ed Marlo, in that he seems to publish everything he creates, regardless of merit*. I noted that others may disagree.

That was a subjective opinion - I had no idea that it was a view that needed to be monitored by "magic policeman" like yourself. Grateful if you could email me all of your opinions, saws and biases so that in future I'll know not to contradict them.

Now, back to Zarrow: I'd also like an update on the much-anticipated books by David Ben.

Joe

*So as not to confuse those whose powers of deduction are less developed, I also believe that Walton (like Marlo) has published an astonishing amount of truly great, classic card effects - which is a different matter again.
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