Ring on Wand

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.

Postby Guest » 02/27/03 09:21 PM

I'm about to start performing this routine, mostly based on the Ross Bertram/Dai Vernon, handling (no duplicate rings)

Any advice from those who use it regularly?

Also, I am wondering if Vernon's fake move for putting the ring on the stick is convincing for an audience...it looks great, but will it fly in hindsight?
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Postby Curtis Kam » 02/27/03 09:37 PM

Chris,

The Vernon move works quite well, you will be happy with the results, provided you frame the mopment correctly. Remember, this is a "stealth" move, where nothing unusual is supposed to be happening (as opposed to other moves, where something is going on, but we are misrepresenting its nature in some way)

Experience has taught me a few things about this trick, but I'd rather you learn this one the easy way: fight the urge to break out your nicest, custom-made solid ebony wand with sterling tips for this. People are amazed by this trick. The ring is theirs. There "must" be a gimmick, and that wand looks very suspicious. If you hand it out for examination, they will eventually at least "flex" the wand, just to see if it comes apart. More than one pro has told me they have lost wands to this examination process. People will break a solid wand to see inside!

My final solution (and that of others, including new member Billy McComb) is to use a clear wand. The thing still gets flexed, but it can take it. I have made some alterations that make the effect easier, and the stick an actual wand, but that's another story. A plain clear stick is a good starter.

Good luck, and play safely.
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Postby Pete Biro » 02/28/03 12:02 AM

A friend of mine uses a wooden drumstick.
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Postby Ian Kendall » 02/28/03 02:45 AM

I've had a wand broken by a spectator. It was an El Duco, dark wood with brass ends. Both the ends were pulled off (not easy) to check for 'something inside'. And I was only doing a sodding wand spin :(

Ian
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Postby Guest » 02/28/03 04:26 AM

are you sure you weren't sticking it up your nose!

Which brings me to my next point;

has anyone ever broken your nose after blockhead?

Hope the babies are well......Look after them.

Love Dean.
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Postby Guest » 02/28/03 04:45 AM

Trust the moves Chris you'll be right.

The structures of both are very naturalistic, in the Vernon/ Bertram tradition. The audience have no reason to doubt anything because what you do and say appear to be completely honest. It simply didn't happen....Jesus those guys were good.

Any kids out there who are interested in the artistry of sleight of hand should hold off with the latest DVD for a while and just get the "Stars of magic" Or -try- To get hold of any of the Bertram stuff.

The pleasure I have had from studying Bertram's Tenkai stuff over the years on the reproduced L and L tapes is worth more than I can put a price on.

Best
DeanX
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Postby Guest » 02/28/03 06:22 AM

Thanks Dean, Thanks Curtis

I have 2, four hour events this weekend, (plenty of time to work it).
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Postby Curtis Kam » 02/28/03 12:29 PM

Hey ChrisDavid, do me a favor, and "work on it" before the big shows, okay? :p
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Postby Guest » 02/28/03 01:08 PM

Check out Ron Bauer's "The Cursed Ring," it's very good for the reason that you have a reason for using a ring to begin with.
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Postby Guest » 02/28/03 02:17 PM

Hi Curtis

I've actually been working through the routine every day for about a month...rehearsing with a fellow magician friend...The moves themselves I've been practicing off and on for about five years...

I have to field test this puppy!
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Postby Curtis Kam » 02/28/03 09:00 PM

Whew. :)

BTW, have you tried Tommy Wonder's take on this? Talk about attention to details. It makes me feel A.D.D.!
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Postby Guest » 03/01/03 06:58 AM

Tommy Wonder's sequence is one of my favorites...
So subtle!!
Unfortunately it didn't make it in my final routine...that was a very tough decision
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Postby Dave Shepherd » 03/01/03 11:07 AM

Originally posted by Pete Biro:
A friend of mine uses a wooden drumstick.
I just bought a pair at a music shop. Timbale sticks, they are: the kind of drum sticks with no bead on one end.

Decided I didn't want to have some bruiser demolishing my cocobolo wand.

Timbale sticks were $3.99 US a pair at the Guitar Center in Fairfax, Virginia.

Anybody have a source for clear plexiglass rods?
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Postby Russell Davis » 03/01/03 02:19 PM

Maybe not Plexiglass, but tough transparent plastic wands are sold as control wands for window mini-blinds. Got mine at Wal-Mart.

Also, some of them are hollow, could be filled with a (black and white?) strip of cardstock or who knows what, and are well suited for the paddle move.
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Postby Guest » 03/01/03 10:36 PM

So far...so good

I had several chances to perform the routine today. It's nice to have venues to test out moves and ideas...

With the exception of one 13 year old boy (who theorized that the ring wasn't on the stick) all were baffled, examining the wand carefully, and finding nothing...

The moves work! I need to smooth things out with another 1000 performances
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Postby Pete Biro » 03/01/03 10:39 PM

In gift shops you can find GIGANTIC yellow pencils, that are just about the size of a wand.

Also... I have (but misplaced it) a toy tiny baseball bat the size of a wand... this is great when working with Mike Rogers' baseballs.

I call the props! "LITTLE LEAGUE EQUIPMENT" :D :D
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Postby Guest » 03/02/03 09:28 AM

Just my opinion...but part of the allure of Ring on Wand is using elegant material...drumsticks, mini blinds and baseball bats, while practical, cheap and indestructable, wouldn't make me feel like a professional performer, and further, runs the risk of cheapening an otherwise classy effect.

Unless you're working for wrestlers, I can't understand all of you who've had wands broken! Maybe a little audience management would solve the problem...

I've been using John Rogers' wooden cigars steadily for two years, 1000's of times, handing them out to be examined...if there was ever a prop that evoked curiosity it's a wooden cigar emerging from a tiny purse...and if there was ever a beast yearning to reak chaos, it's a group of 13 year old Bar Mitzvah boys! I've never had a problem because I manage their desire to smash things!

just a thought
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Postby brownbeauty » 03/02/03 03:45 PM

I remember seeing Dr.Giovanni quite a few times on daytime T.V. in the early 70"s borrow a drumstick from the studio drummer and amaze the studio audience by performing "ring on drumstick". He was amazing!
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Postby amakar » 04/23/03 11:34 AM

Mr. E made a good comment regarding the Ring on Wand.

What is your reason for having a ring on a wand to begin with? Unless there is a reason for you to carry a ring and a wand with you...the presentation is kind of boring....

Andy
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 04/23/03 01:44 PM

Forget the wand! Use a long thin black stick as depicted in the Ross Bertram issue of Genii this past February.
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Postby Ian Kendall » 04/23/03 02:21 PM

Originally posted by ChrisDavid:


Unless you're working for wrestlers, I can't understand all of you who've had wands broken! Maybe a little audience management would solve the problem...

Not exactly fair. He asked to look at the wand, so I let him. Then he broke off the ends. Git.

Take care, Ian
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Postby Guest » 04/23/03 06:42 PM

I hate any sort of prop that LOOKS like a magic prop when performing for adults.

Apart from the fact that I think magic wands look silly (for me anyway), they will always look like a gimmick. I do ring on stick with a straw or borrowed pen and the reaction is even more amazing.

The props shouldn't appear magical. I should appear magicial.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 04/23/03 06:52 PM

Sol Stone has always used a pen for his handlings of this trick. Never a wand, stick, chopstick, dipstick, or any kind of stick.
What kind of gorilla/spectator would/could break off the ends of a magic wand?
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Postby Ian Kendall » 04/24/03 01:06 AM

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
What kind of gorilla/spectator would/could break off the ends of a magic wand?
If I remember, it was a rugby bar and I was doing a drinks promotion for Gordon's Gin. This guy was bigger than me (I'm 6'4") and when he took the wand he twisted the ends until the epoxy gave way and pulled the ends off.

I've not carried a wand since.

Take care, Ian
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Postby Gerald Deutsch » 04/24/03 01:43 PM

I love Sol Stone's ring off pen.

I do this close up - walk around---in a routine as follows:

1 Borrow ring and pen
2 Ring on pen
3 Ring off pen (Sol Stone)
4 Vanish ring - produce ring - return ring
5 Vanish pen - produce pen - return pen.
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Postby Randy Naviaux » 04/25/03 02:21 PM

I'm very curious about an idea I had and if anyone has done this: After the routine very slowly unscrew the wand (I have one that screws together) as everyone watches.

I think in a way this solves the too perfect theory. The only way the ring could of gotten off is if the wand did come apart ine the middle yet there is no way that could of happened.

Thoughts? Criticisms?

Sincerely,

Randy
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Postby Guest » 04/29/03 02:31 PM

Originally posted by rnaviaux:
I'm very curious about an idea I had and if anyone has done this: After the routine very slowly unscrew the wand (I have one that screws together) as everyone watches.

I think in a way this solves the too perfect theory. The only way the ring could of gotten off is if the wand did come apart ine the middle yet there is no way that could of happened.

Thoughts? Criticisms?

Sincerely,

Randy
Randy,

IMHO, by doing this you are giving the audience a (to them) feasible explanation of how the trick is done. ANY explanation in the minds of an audience is right - to them - and blows the mystery away.

Frankly, when the "Too Perfect" theory was proposed by Rick Johnsson, I quailed at the idea.

The ONLY place, IMHO, the too perfect theory should hold any water is in mentalism, where error is presupposed by the audience - notice how John Edwards and Van Praaugh (the worse of the two, IMO) always miss something.

Aren't we here to entertain and fool the daylights out of the audience? The "Too Perfect" theory flies in the face of that by subliminally offering the audience an 'out.'

Personally, I's of the "no prisoners" school of thought. I WANT my audiences to walk away wondering how the h(*l he did THAT!

But I could also be wrong. It wouldn't be a first.

Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
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Postby Glenn Farrington » 04/30/03 09:51 PM

David Ben uses an elegant plain stick for Bertrams routine. After seeing David do the routine there are no others that come close.IMHO...but whichever routine you use the stick David uses can be bought through Michael Cannick. He was arranging this as a one time buy for a group of people. If you contact him now you might be able to get in on that order. The following is the desciption and the price from an e-mail he sent to all of us at the recent workshop in NY:

The wand is about 14 inches long & made from an exotic & rare wood, cocobolo. It is then turned and finished by hand. There are no tips.I have arranged a distribution agreement with the craftsman to fill orders on a one-time basis. The wands will be fabricated to meet all of David's specifications and will take about 3-4 weeks to arrive. The price is a very reasonable $40 + P&H. If you'd like a wand, please contact me NOW
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Postby Lisa Cousins » 05/01/03 09:39 AM

I agree with Lee Darrow. It would be a mistake to let people know that the wand can come apart. They're bound to assume that the opening was somehow involved, and conclude that the secret is the break in the wand, combined with magicianly shenanigans that they just didn't happen to catch.

I also agree with Glenn Farrington. One thing I learned at the workshop is that conviction is the key to carrying the ring-on-wand or any of the other "classics" of magic.

Not conviction that THIS REALLY HAPPENED (the ring went through the wand, the egg appeared in an empty bag, the red card turned into a black card, and so on). Conviction that THIS IS MAGIC.
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Postby Pete McCabe » 05/01/03 02:09 PM

Randy,

I personally think the TPT is horrible, but in any event I think there is a flaw in your reasoning:

I think in a way this solves the too perfect theory. The only way the ring could of gotten off is if the wand did come apart ine the middle yet there is no way that could of happened.
If you do this trick for an audience who thinks that the only explanation is that the wand comes apart in the middle, and they see you unscrew the wand, they will not think "there is no way that could have happened". They will think, oh -- the wand comes apart. Just like I thought.
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Postby Guest » 05/01/03 03:25 PM

It makes me so happy when people put down TPT.
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Postby Pete McCabe » 05/01/03 03:45 PM

Nicholas:

Anytime. If only Richard had included me in the grand issue on the subject a few months back, I'd have nothing further to say. To think how much forum bandwidth would have been saved!
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Postby Guest » 05/06/03 08:02 PM

We don't think of clowns as being good magicians, but if you want the greatest 3 phase Ring on Stick around (and easy) see Bev Bergeron's VCR. Yes, it uses Vernon's end of stick move ("stealth") but absolutely convincing. why, Strangely becasue Bev is not Vernon. Not subtle and sophisticated his magic is bang, bam, loud and wonderfully convincing just becaue of this. "BE an Actor",he keeps repeating."You're supposed to be an actor; ACT". This is magic in the old Chanin, Flosso,perhaps circus way but Bev is really great. All his routines are enhanced by that same approach. Watch it, laugh and master in 10 seconds.
MartinJ
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Postby Carl Mercurio » 05/23/03 11:50 AM

You know what's a nice stick....Get a wood hanger for a man's suit, the kind that has that wood bar to keep he slacks from falling off the hanger. Remove the bar, paint it any color you want and paint the ends white like a magic wand. This is what I don't use for ring on wand, because I don't trust the move and am afraid to try it....So I do ring on string instead. I know, I'm chicken; one day I'll test it out....
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Postby Guest » 05/23/03 07:23 PM

That would make a good gag!

Take out your wand and then hang your coat on it!

(its the only thing they're good for IMHO)
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Postby Guest » 05/29/03 09:24 AM

Originally posted by Nicholas J. Johnson:
That would make a good gag!

Take out your wand and then hang your coat on it!

(its the only thing they're good for IMHO)
It IS a good gag, but as far as it being the only thing a wand is good for, well, to quote Bloom County, "Yer talkin' bull paddies, bro!"

Fl!p Stick is killer when done correctly, Marriage Ceremony (I think that's what it's called) where the two rings come together on a wand visibly and magically is another.

The wand spin vanish, as well as Williamson's Striking Vanish are both solid, visual, MAGICAL effects that use a wand, ring climbing a wand can be played to good effect, if done correctly and swallowing a wand (ala a knife from Encyclopedia of Impromptu Magic) can really knock an audience off their seats, close up.

Shall I continue? ;)

Kind regards,

Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
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Postby Guest » 05/29/03 10:36 AM

Yeah, plus the fact that holding a wand gives the impression that your hand is "busy" doing something (while you're really holding out an object, such as a coin or a ball). Reaching for the wand can be a form of misdirection. You can ditch something while reaching for your wand. The magic wand has been one of the symbols of magic for ages. It adds a little something to the performance.

Granted, if you're just a hobbysit who performs strictly for family and friends, then carrying around a wand might seem a little cheesy. But if you're a working pro there are a lot of benefits to having a wand; especially a well-made one of an exotic wood like Cocobolo.

I remember hearing how Bill Malone, when he first started working some higher paying engagements, went out and got himself a Rolex. He also has a beautiful Thomas Wayne wand that cost a pretty penny. Those little things add some class to your act. The way you talk, dress, and carry yourself overall speaks as much as your skill with a deck of cards it seems. I also like Jeff McBride's idea that successful people tend to want to associate with other successful people.

Of course, a wand doesn't fit everbody's character. But I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss something that a lot of the working pro's use on a daily basis without at least thinking about the advantages and disadvantages of the situation.
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Postby Guest » 05/29/03 03:53 PM

Been thinking of adding this to my repetoir for a while. There seems a nice handling of it in Daryls lecture notes. Picked up a chopstick from my local Chinese restaurant tonight. Will let you know how it goes.

First thought, I use Aldo Columbini's Mama Mia Rope routine, the walkabout version, whilst Table hopping, That adds in a "Medium size" rope part way through. Medium Size rope perfect for Ring off rope on Stick (Chop)

Cheers

Andy
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