Original Card Control to the Top

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.

Postby Sworn Lip(s) » 07/24/11 01:59 PM

Hello all, I believe I have discovered an original card control that is direct,natural, elegant(not flashy), and instant...meaning that the work is done before you begun. I haven't seen anything out there like it....but maybe you have. My problem is that for how ingenious the control is, the applications, and the ease(It does take work for the pressure feel point)...that the control isn't known to any degree. Im not a professional, but my real world workings of it has proven to be second to none...in fact, your head can be even turned away. I hope Im on to something here, but would like any feedback. Robert from New Orleans - Enjoy You can watch it at http://youtu.be/LQ7ln1B69Ps just copy and paste in browser...and I hope this is the right forum.
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 07/24/11 02:05 PM

How would you compare you control with the Ovette Master Move (also called Kelly Bottom Placement) when done off the top rather than the bottom of the pack?
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Postby Sworn Lip(s) » 07/24/11 02:32 PM

Have you watched my control yet? We are talking about a control to the top with the most natural means and the spectator feeling they were in control of the placement. No question that you maneuvered their card to the top...your actions dont register a reason. If you riffle, then they thought of the card. If they placed the selection at a stop point....they put the card there them self and witnessed two halves coming together to loose their card in the deck...done! Like I said, your head can be turned the whole time. The work is done before you begun. I guess I would have to be refreshed on the Ovette Master Move to compare it.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 07/24/11 02:41 PM

What you're doing is an application of an old palm from the center of the deck into the left hand by Tenkai.

I would not have thought it could be used to bring a card to the top that smoothly or quickly, but you do it very well.
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Postby Sworn Lip(s) » 07/24/11 03:08 PM

I am humbled by your comment Mr.K . I actually call the control Second(s)To The Top. Because not only can you get the selection to the top in seconds....this control also allows you to place the selection second from the top. Ive got a few recorded takes on Youtube with variations and history should you find the time. I actually came up with the idea with a another original....or to be safe...independently discovered sleight...which I call Swivel Swap. Swivel Swap also has its place. Happy to know its somewhat original on your knowledgeable aspect.
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Postby BrianB2 » 07/24/11 03:10 PM

Looks more like an inferior variation of the Marlo-Thompson Bluff Pass to me.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 07/24/11 03:23 PM

I can see why you might think that, but there are at least two of the demonstrations where it seems clear that the top half is being placed on top of the bottom half.
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Postby BrianB2 » 07/24/11 03:43 PM

And, Richard, when done expertly, the same illusion is accomplished with the Marlo-Thompson pass.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 07/24/11 03:57 PM

Well, I don't agree with that.
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Postby Sworn Lip(s) » 07/24/11 04:07 PM

Maybe this could shed some light. I just recorded a video of how it works and will release it for about 30 minutes or until feedback before I privatize it. are you ready?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PufWW3aHeAo
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Postby BrianB2 » 07/24/11 04:07 PM

Well, I will revise my comment.

When done expertly, and I have seen Frank Thompson do his bluff pass, granted many years ago in my youth, I will state that any expertly done bluff pass is far superior to this technique.

Howie Schwarzman also has an expert bluff pass technique, complete with sound effect. (I am sure you know that.)

So, for my revision, in my opinion, a good bluff pass is superior to the technique exhibited on the video.

I stand by my original post that this is an inferior technique/method.
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 07/24/11 04:13 PM

Thanks for posting the video - Jerry Andrus might have enjoyed that very much.
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Postby Sworn Lip(s) » 07/24/11 05:03 PM

2 cents on BrianB2s comments. Your feedback is perfect for my variation on the Bluff Pass. What I am doing is controlling a selection to the top with deck in same sequence order. Unlike the Bluff Pass, the selection has to be removed to be bluffed at least 2nd from the top. With my control, there is not only no doubt that there are two equal haves separated at the placement, but there is no covert hand actions to hide the bluff. Also to note...if you are performing with multiple selections and want to quickly have cards riffled to a stop and peeked from hand....once again, all selections are on top with minimal hand motion before the trick begins.
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Postby Sworn Lip(s) » 07/24/11 05:39 PM

Richard!...Not sure how your forum monitoring works, but there is a new link I created for you on how I actually perform Second(s) To The Top. Better incite to comparing for originality.
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Postby BrianB2 » 07/24/11 06:10 PM

sworn lip(s) wrote:2 cents on BrianB2s comments. Your feedback is perfect for my variation on the Bluff Pass. What I am doing is controlling a selection to the top with deck in same sequence order. Unlike the Bluff Pass, the selection has to be removed to be bluffed at least 2nd from the top. With my control, there is not only no doubt that there are two equal haves separated at the placement, but there is no covert hand actions to hide the bluff. Also to note...if you are performing with multiple selections and want to quickly have cards riffled to a stop and peeked from hand....once again, all selections are on top with minimal hand motion before the trick begins.



Why do I care if the deck is in same sequence order?

"Unlike the Bluff Pass, the selection has to be removed to be bluffed at least 2nd from the top."

Huh?

"With my control, there is not only no doubt that there are two equal haves separated at the placement, but there is no covert hand actions to hide the bluff."

Are you familiar with the Marlo-Thompson pass that I referenced? There is no doubt that two halves are separated in that move. And, there are no covert actions.

Watch your own video and pay attention to your left thumb.
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Postby Edward » 07/24/11 07:07 PM

Very nice.
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Postby Sworn Lip(s) » 07/24/11 07:10 PM

Sorry BrianB2...I guess I should have pulled out Racherbaumers first Card Finesse book and reread up on the pass before prior commenting....my mind was on the 'Bluff Pass'. Say man, do you have the technology to record yourself performing the Marlo-Thompson and then post it on Youtube? We can do a side-by-side comparison and let forum viewers tell us the pros & cons on each.....it would be both fun and educational!Maybe even a better bluff/control can come out of it by one of the viewers....sound cool?
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 07/24/11 07:30 PM

Let's not get mixed up talking about two completely different sleights.

The Marlo-Thompson Bluff Shift is a way of secretly cutting the deck. The sleight under discussion is a single card control to the top of the deck.

Let's not blur the discussion.
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 07/24/11 07:49 PM

Richard, did you get to see Jerry Andrus demonstrate his Sidewinder? He visited NYC and made it to the Saturday gathering one weekend between the days of the Governor and Reubens Deli - I believe it was upstairs at a Dosanko.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 07/24/11 07:57 PM

Yes, I filmed Jerry Andrus doing virtually all of his material: I directed the Andrus tapes which Meir Yedid sells.

I don't recall the Sidewinder Shift being the same as the sleight discussed here. Is it?
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 07/24/11 08:09 PM

whoops - just had a look on YouTube - Panoramic shift.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6xhgXsMkMI

don't mind the extra deck rotation and card spring at the end :)
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 07/24/11 08:16 PM

I don't understand, Jon: this move is not the Panoramic Shift, either.
The card is not injogged.
The card is not moved by the right thumb.

What it is, is the action of the Lowey Palm with an instant reverse action, during which the upper half of the deck is inserted between the moving card and lower half.
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 07/24/11 08:39 PM

Oh okay, on that level of detail. Silly me I clocked it as an Ovette Master Move done off the top of the packet, but using the thumb instead of the fingers to drive the card.

Where's the Lowey sleight in print? Guess yours truly needs to learn more about who gets credit for what on this stuff.
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Postby Joe Pecore » 07/24/11 08:50 PM

There is a description of the Lowey Palm in Magicana for Genii November, 1967 (on Ask Alexander http://askalexander.org/displaypdf.cgi?pid=1722960 for those with a Genii Subscription)
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 07/24/11 09:12 PM

Jon: do you have Stars of Magic? Vernon uses the Lowey Palm in "Travellers."

Lowey Palm: Deck is held face down in the left hand, farther forward than normal dealing position. Left thumb pivots top card all the way down until it lines up with the left palm. Right hand provides the cover as it comes over to take the deck by its outer end.

Vital point is the position of the inner left corner of the deck at the start (pivot point) and the right-hand cover (which may be Vernon's).
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Postby Sworn Lip(s) » 07/24/11 10:10 PM

Anyone familiar with Roger Smith and his swivel control. My friend Jon V saw my control and mentioned his move...of course mine was "vastly superior"...Just curious to what Rogers control actually looks like.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 07/25/11 12:48 AM

Don't know the Roger Smith move.
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Postby Sworn Lip(s) » 07/25/11 09:35 PM

Well folks...whatever the verdict may be...and to those who peeked at the works or reversed engineered it....you wont be disappointed in what you find. I believe to have just scratched the surface with this control. The 'At The Table Version'...same thing....just a natural feel... apparently bringing both halves together with your elbows on the table. Those who use borderless backs can perform the control backs faced out. Thank you to those with positive feedback....and dont forget....mums the word...you have only been exposed to the secret here.
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Postby Bill McFadden » 07/25/11 10:16 PM

Howard Schwarzman and Bob White (and I think Jon R.) dig the Loewy Palm. Hard to argue such endorsements. Me, I'm partial to LH palming top or bottom.
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Postby Philippe Billot » 07/26/11 07:38 AM

Who know why Jean Hugard didn't know in 1936 that the "Hugard Palm" described in Card Manipulations no. 5 (1936) was the Loewy Palm and who know why Charlie Miller in Genii 1967 November wrote it the "Lowey Palm"?

Subsidiary question : Who was the first to discover that The Discoverie of Witchcraft was the first book in which magic tricks were explained?

Thanks in advance.
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Postby Joe Pecore » 07/26/11 08:03 AM

Philippe Billot wrote:...who know why Charlie Miller in Genii 1967 November wrote it the "Lowey Palm"?


It seem to be a common typo. Did you notice in the table of contents for that Genii it says "THE LOWLY PALM AS IT SHOULD BE DONE"
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Postby Philippe Billot » 07/26/11 08:22 AM

No, I didn't notice this. Another common typo?
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Postby Joe Pecore » 07/26/11 08:32 AM

Or rather, his last name has been spelled both ways.

It is "Loewy" in his Obit in the Linking Ring September 1933, but "Lowey" in Greater Magic.

It seems to appear more commonly as Loewy within the Sphinx in the 1920s.
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Postby Joe Pecore » 07/26/11 08:41 AM

Prof. Loewy was also a stamp collector: http://www.auspostalhistory.com/articles/399.shtml
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 07/26/11 01:05 PM

Great find, Joe! Anyone who wants to know more about Morris Loewy should definitely click on the link.
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 07/26/11 02:48 PM

SL, what advantage do you find using your thumb to move the card rather than pulling it with the left fingers?

FWIW there are some handlings of the Hofzinser type II (reverse) pass where you trump the cut as you assemble the pack by pulling/levering the entire bottom half of the pack to the vertical then replace it on top under a gentle squaring action.
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Postby Sworn Lip(s) » 07/26/11 05:20 PM

The name is Robert by the way...sworn lip(s) is an anagram for R.P. Wilson...yep my real name is Robert Paul Wilson....Im just not Scottish. Anyway, Im not sure how you would pull it with the left fingers and what that advantage would be. The advantage to using your thumb is that the deck has to be in a forward grip, thus giving the instant action and natural cover when bringing both halves together. And I guess Im addicted to the pressure point at the base of the thumb that developes. From an open hand placement of a card, you have both time and feel to get the bottom half in swivel position. Basically if you dont hit the swivel spot...the control will fail. I hope that answers the question.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 07/26/11 05:52 PM

The left hand action with the thumb is very nice. The weak spot is having to straddle the outer end of the upper half with the right fingers because the thumb gets in the way. But you'll figure out how to get around that. :)
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 07/26/11 07:19 PM

sworn lip(s) wrote:The name is Robert by the way...sworn lip(s) is an anagram for R.P. Wilson...yep my real name is Robert Paul Wilson....Im just not Scottish. Anyway, Im not sure how you would pull it with the left fingers and what that advantage would be...


Hi Robert.

Thanks, will PM about details of Joe Ovette's sleight and the old Hofzinser pass.

Please accept my kudos for both developing a control you find useful and for bringing it here to discuss. That's a path that can lead to excellence in this craft.

Jon
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Postby Sworn Lip(s) » 07/26/11 07:23 PM

Well....what about a Faced-out Stage Version....its kind of neat.... http://youtu.be/kL8gHw-4Mvs
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