Credit Re: 'Oil And Vinegar' by Derek Dingle

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Postby Guest » 08/11/07 04:05 PM

Hi Everyone...

I have a question that has been bugging me for years - So, if anyone can help me, I would be very grateful...

It concerns the effect 'Oil And Vinegar' (an 'Oil And Water' routine) by Derek Dingle - Page 167 of 'The Complete Works Of Derek Dingle'. At the start of the description, there is a quote saying that 'Oil And Vinegar' is a combination of ideas by Stewart James and Roy Walton. Well, I would love it if somebody could point me in the direction of where the Stewart James idea is published. I presume it is an 'Oil And Water' effect - yet, I have never come across an 'Oil And Water' effect by Stewart James. There is no mention of 'Oil And Water' in the Index (by Bill Goodwin) to the two massive Stewart James books. I also came across an 'Oil And Water' in Apocalypse which was said to be based on 'an idea of Stewart James'...

I wonder if perhaps Derek Dingle was mistaken and meant to say his effect was based on some of the 'Oil And Water' ideas of Stewart Judah? Stewart Judah has published at least one famous routine based on the 'Oil And Water' premise...

Well, I know the work of Derek Dingle is much appreciated on this forum, so perhaps somebody knows the answer...

Thanks!

Joe
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Postby Guest » 08/11/07 11:55 PM

I guess RK himself is the best chap to answer this one... But, I do recall the James/Judah mistake being made before in Abra. So...???

PG
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Postby Philippe Billot » 08/12/07 12:42 AM

You find a (or the) version of Stewart Judah in The Linking Ring, Vol. 44, N 2, Feb 1964, page 84.
And I think it's also in Pallbearers Review.
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Postby Guest » 08/12/07 02:07 AM

in : Apocalypse Vol 8 No 7 July 1985
check
page 1088 Slow Motion Oil and Water (Jim Swain): based on a Stewart James effect and Roy Walton's Qil and Queens

hope this helps
jacky
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Postby Guest » 08/12/07 01:38 PM

I think I've solved the issue:

See page 167 of Darwin Ortiz's Scams & Fantasies book.

He credits Dingle crediting Stewart Judah 's Oil & Water from The Chronicles ...

INTERESTING???

Paul Gordon
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Postby Philippe Billot » 08/12/07 02:20 PM

Interesting !!!

I made a mistake. Chronicles, not Pallbearers

Thanks.
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Postby Stan Willis » 08/14/07 10:16 AM

The beginning basics for Derek's Oil and Vinegar can be found in THE MAGIC WORLD OF STEWART JUDAH copyright 1966 by MAGIC, INC. pages 53 through 55. While it is not exactly the same as appears in these pages (I'm sure Derek tinkered with it a bit to suit his own taste) the roots can certainly be found here.
And of course it has been noted previously that the final phases of the Oil and Vinegar Routine can be traced to Roy Walton's Oil and Queens.
That only leaves one question for the historians and that involves the anti-oil and vinegar (water) phase that bridges the gap between the above mentioned Oil and Vinegar (water) portion and the Oil and Queens portion. Was this Derek's brillance or can the inspiration be traced elsewhere??
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 08/14/07 11:29 AM

The handling in Derek's book belongs, I believe, to Ricky Jay.
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Postby Stan Willis » 08/14/07 12:38 PM

Thanks for clarifying that, Richard. Some people in the not so distant past have criticized Ricky Jay for not sharing his thoughts and ideas with the general card population. Little did they know it's gems like this that were hidden all the time in plain sight.
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Postby Guest » 08/14/07 04:20 PM

Thanks for the help everybody. I will call off my search for the non-existent 'Oil And Water' by Stewart James......

All the best,

Joe
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Postby Guest » 08/14/07 06:28 PM

On a related note, whose idea is it to add the joker as a magic card to the packet?

And has anyone had the joker pass through the packet like a sort of Maxwell's Demon to effect the sorting?
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Postby Ryan Matney » 08/14/07 08:26 PM

Ricky Jay? That came out of nowhere! How did Ricky Jay's handling get in that book?
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 08/14/07 09:14 PM

Ricky taught it to Derek.
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Postby Ryan Matney » 08/14/07 11:51 PM

Thanks. Thats...pretty wild.
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Postby CardFan » 08/15/07 05:22 AM

It's a fun routine, too.
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