Dribble Force reference?

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Postby Tom Frame » 07/17/11 02:43 PM

Hi guys,

Can anyone tell me the first published description of the Dribble Force? Thanks in advance.

Tom
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Postby Joe Pecore » 07/17/11 03:47 PM

I'm sure there must be earlier references but doing a quick search the earliest I could find so far that actually uses the term is the "The O. G. Dribble Force and Location" (Olindo Galluccio) in MUM, April 1973.

I also found the force used, but not give a name, in "No Exchange Do As I Do by Peter Kane" in Hugard's Magic Monthly, September 1962.

Hope this helps,
J. P.
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Postby Joe Pecore » 07/17/11 03:52 PM

I see some references of people crediting it to Marlo.



I then found within "THE DRIBBLE STOP" effect in Marlo's book "Estimation" (1979) which he says had "kept to myself for many years but as it depends on a form of timing they are here included .... (See Notes of 1958, DRIBBLE STOP EFFECT, for history and other methods. )"
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Postby Tom Frame » 07/17/11 05:40 PM

Thanks Joe!
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Postby Denis Behr » 07/17/11 07:18 PM

Joe Pecore wrote:"Estimation" (1979)

The booklet first appeared in 1962.
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Postby Joe Pecore » 07/17/11 08:27 PM

Good catch! (The fourth printing was 1979)
The same reference and quotes are also in the hardbound compilation "Revolutionary Card Technique"
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Postby Philippe Billot » 07/18/11 03:19 AM

One of the first explaination of a Dribble Force, perhaps the first, is described in

Supplment la Sorcellerie ancienne et moderne explique by J.N. Ponsin, 1858.

Chapter VI : Faire prendre une carte non force, la faire mler dans le jeu, prendre ce jeu, le partager vivement sur la table en petits paquets dtachs au hasard, et faire que la carte prise et mle se trouve la premire d'un tas qui se formera au moment mme o l'on prononcera volont le mot "Halte!".

Free translation:

A card is freely chosen then lost in the pack.
The you dribble the deck on the table and when the spectator said "Stop!", his card is on top of the packet dribble on the table.


As Marlo was quoted, see review Pabular no. 2 & 3, october & november 1974, Dribble Coincidence and Dribble Concept which used practically THE SAME method as in Ponsin.
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 07/18/11 10:14 AM

Philippe, my French is not so good and I read that as taking packets off the top of the pack. Where did I miss the dribble action?
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Postby Philippe Billot » 07/18/11 11:11 AM

At Ponsin time, the notion of "dribble" was not very common and the word "cascade" was not yet used. So Ponsin wrote:

"Vous prenez le jeu par les deux cts, en pinant toujours la cl mais en maintenant des doigts les cartes qui sont dessous. Vous "laissez tomber ces dernires par petites parties" en en faisant assez vivement une range sur la table."

Ponsin didn't specify to take the deck "by the sides or the ends" nor "by above with one hand" but it's the only way "to drop little packets" quickly doing a row on the table.

The word "cl" means that you have a long or large Key Card just above the chosen card.

Have you the same text in french ?
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 07/18/11 11:46 AM

Thanks, it's been over thirty years since I had access to the Linconln center collection and the books (they had Decremps and Ponsin in the original).

I missed reference to "lassez tomber" in your earlier post.
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Postby Tom Frame » 07/18/11 01:32 PM

Philippe Billot wrote:but it's the only way "to drop little packets" quickly doing a row on the table.


Phillipe,

Thanks for the reference. Having the selected card appear at the top of a row of cards instead of atop a squared half deck is an interesting idea. The row visually emphasizes the many cards from which the participant had to choose.

Yes, I'd say that Ponsin predates Marlo - though Marlo would have certainly disagreed.
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Postby Philippe Billot » 07/18/11 02:25 PM

Tom Frame wrote:
Philippe Billot wrote:but it's the only way "to drop little packets" quickly doing a row on the table.


Phillipe,

Thanks for the reference. Having the selected card appear at the top of a row of cards instead of atop a squared half deck is an interesting idea. The row visually emphasizes the many cards from which the participant had to choose.

Yes, I'd say that Ponsin predates Marlo - though Marlo would have certainly disagreed.


Except Jean Hugard and Victor Farelli, few magicians (even french) have readen Guyot, Decremps and J.N. Ponsin. Marlo was not omniscient even if he has readen a lot of books (cf Frances Ireland Marshall in the Linking Ring) and I'm sure Marlo didn't speak or read french because I have somme letters, all in english.
When Ellis Stanyon described The Dribble Force, he didn't quote Ponsin who, in fact, is not the creator of the technique because he wrote he saw a "young man" doing this trick.
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Postby Bill Mullins » 07/18/11 02:41 PM

Philippe Billot wrote:When Ellis Stanyon described The Dribble Force, he didn't quote Ponsin who, in fact, is not the creator of the technique because he wrote he saw a "young man" doing this trick.

Where did Stanyon describe it?
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Postby Philippe Billot » 07/18/11 03:20 PM

Sorry, I made a confusion.

Stanyon described a RIFFLE FORCE with a long or large card, not a DRIBBLE FORCE.
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Postby brettsears » 08/14/11 11:54 PM

Using a long card for a dribble force is a great idea though. Got me thinking :)
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Postby Pete McCabe » 08/15/11 01:47 AM

Try a thick card for the dribble force. Very natural, dead easy, and the spectator can overhand shuffle the deck without being wise.
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Postby Philippe Billot » 08/15/11 03:18 AM

Pete McCabe wrote:Try a thick card for the dribble force. Very natural, dead easy, and the spectator can overhand shuffle the deck without being wise.


It's exactly what Marlo used. A thick card. With two decks and two keys, you can do an impressive coincidence at the "Spectator's Stop".
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Postby BrianB2 » 08/15/11 12:06 PM

Pete McCabe wrote:Try a thick card for the dribble force. Very natural, dead easy, and the spectator can overhand shuffle the deck without being wise.



See Steve Bedwell's Thick Schtick booklet, page 17 - The TC Dribble Force.
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 08/15/11 01:08 PM

BrianB2 wrote:See Steve Bedwell's Thick Schtick booklet, page 17 - The TC Dribble Force.


That's before Ponsin's book?
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Postby Philippe Billot » 08/15/11 01:41 PM

Absolutly!

Thick Schtick ! was published in 2000, long BEFORE 1858.
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Postby Pete McCabe » 08/16/11 01:25 PM

It's not the first time this has happened. In the early 90s I created "Brainweave," which was then recreated by Alex Elmsley and published sometime in the 50s. Before I was even born! The nerve of the man!
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Postby BrianB2 » 08/16/11 01:42 PM

Note that my reference was a reply to Pete McCabe's post. Not a reply to the OP!
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 08/16/11 02:14 PM

Noted BB2, Also noted the reference to the special card in Ponsin's book as well as "a young man" who may well have been Marlo. ;)
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Postby Philippe Billot » 08/16/11 04:22 PM

Jonathan Townsend wrote:Noted BB2, Also noted the reference to the special card in Ponsin's book as well as "a young man" who may well have been Marlo. ;)


Jonathan, why do you give the game ?
Now, everybody knows Marlo was a temporal traveler.
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Postby BrianB2 » 08/16/11 05:47 PM

Philippe Billot wrote:[snip]

Jonathan, why do you give the game ?
Now, everybody knows Marlo was a temporal traveler.



Ah, but now we are in the realm of the temporal paradox!


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Postby Jon Racherbaumer » 08/17/11 12:09 PM

DRIBBLE-MANIA: Magicians, specifically card guys, differently interpret the mechanics of dribbling cards than, say, poets or ordinary folks. They would likely picture cards FALLING and DROPPING in SMALL QUANTITIES (clumps of 2-5 cards) from the operators hand to somewhere else such as another hand, the table, or another portion of cards.

What activates the mechanics is another issue. Ordinary folks might suggest that simple GRAVITY is the operative force. That is, cards are RELEASED and then drop.

Cardmen usually activate the dribble by gently FLEXING the cards held in a BIDDLE GRIP or by the sides so that they are slightly concave. Then the cards, once RELEASED, fall more UNIFORMLY in a soft CASCADE or as we are wont to say, THEY DRIBBLE.

Side-bar: I once followed David Wiliamson in a close-up round in Atlantawhich is like following Willy Nelson in Austin, Texas as a jug-band player fresh from rehab. When I arrived at the table, I discovered it was a bit DAMP.

What the hell happened here? I asked.

A helpful lad in the front row explained that Williamson said at several points in his presentation of THE CARD TRICK THAT WILL NEVER BE EXPLAINED, Now you dribble onto the table Then he physically dribbled copious amounts of spittle onto the table.

It was hilarious, added the lad.

The table wasshall we say?sloppy wet.
I turned the room into a wake.
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