Magic wand with air-pressure?

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.

Postby Richard Erb » 07/12/11 03:22 AM

Dear all,

Some time back I saw a magician in a Shanghai restaurant who did a very nice trick with silks at some tables.
After considering all possibilities, I am sure that the small magic wand he used was some how releasing a little bit compressed air.
Does anybody know of a dealer who is offering small magic wands (should fit into the inside breast pocket of a normal jacket) which can be somehow loaded with a little bit of compressed air?
A little amount of air would have to be released somehow (a button?) to let the silk twitch a bit.

Regards
Richard
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 07/12/11 08:38 AM

Rather than ask us to be complicit, how about going back to the guy who impressed you and asking for what you want directly?
Mundus vult decipi
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Postby mrgoat » 07/12/11 08:50 AM

Jonathan Townsend wrote:Rather than ask us to be complicit, how about going back to the guy who impressed you and asking for what you want directly?


Maybe he thought, rather than flying to Shanghai, trying to remember the restaurant and hoping the magician was there, he would ask the hive mind here?

Seems the cheaper option?
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 07/12/11 09:05 AM

So you're cool with crowdsourcing the reverse engineering of someone else's act?

Not best practice or setting a good example IMHO.

But yes it's cheaper. Cheapens all of us indirectly.

I still feel it would be more appropriate to ask for help finding the guy and making a direct request.
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Postby mrgoat » 07/12/11 09:22 AM

Jonathan Townsend wrote:So you're cool with crowdsourcing the reverse engineering of someone else's act?


Absolutely I am.
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Postby Richard Erb » 07/12/11 03:08 PM

Very creative thinking Mr. Townsend.
You may be absolutely right and I really should ask this old Chinese man.
All the years I lived in China, I had excellent experience with Chinese magicians. Whenever I chatted with them, I saw that they where friendly, open, helpful and always curious to learn from each other.
A 9.000 km flight to Shanghai and a visit to Cloud 9 Bar in the 87th floor of the Jin Mao tower would probably be worth it, because I am sure I would receive a much more friendly and helpful response than you where able to give.
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 07/12/11 03:39 PM

Unless there's a great rush, save it for you next trip agenda. It would probably make his day to be asked about an item you saw him perform long ago. On your flight you might also learn to distinguish able from willing or chose. Also between were and where.

dolt forget to write.

What I'm objecting to is the reverse engineering of someone's act. How can folks here object to copied items being sold by companies there if we condone duplicating something seen in an act there? Oh right, magician's logic.

IMHO you are better served by some IT than actual air puffs. I have not seen many items rigged with bladders and hose to deliver airpuffs beyond what gets pinned into the jacket for smoke production.
Last edited by Jonathan Townsend on 07/12/11 03:46 PM, edited 0 times in total.
Reason: help is sometimes a stop sign.
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Postby Richard Erb » 07/12/11 04:41 PM

Dear Mr. Townsend,
As a German I do of course not try to compete with you in your native tongue, but I am sure that my English language capabilities can well compete with your German language capabilities. I promise you that I won't play the bean counter when you switch to German and make mistakes.
Even on a long flight I would not dare to try and distinguish whether you are able or willing or chose to do or not to do something when the only thing I know about you are some written sentences in a forum.
I prefer to leave it to others to jump to conclusions without knowing a person and without first asking for some more details.
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 07/12/11 05:35 PM

Dear Mr. Erb,

If only you had simply asked for the prop.

We often say more than we should when we discuss doing a thing we know we should not do. In your case you decided to figure out someone's trick rather than ask. You asserted you were in the area for a while and still did not ask. Now, far from there in time and space you ask us not to get you in touch with that magician who delighted you but for assistance to duplicate a prop you saw him use. :(

Usually happy to help,

Jon

PS We just got a story on [url=http://www.geniimagazine.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=248609#Post248609
]another thread today[/url] that Jay Marshall got an assistant drunk on alcohol for the secret of an illusion he saw, then got the dimensions and had a copy of the item made. Lots of magician's logic on here today.
Last edited by Jonathan Townsend on 07/12/11 05:40 PM, edited 0 times in total.
Reason: added a link.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 07/12/11 05:48 PM

Unless you can help Richard find the type of wand he is looking for, please avoid extraneous commentary.
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Postby Richard Erb » 07/13/11 10:56 AM

Dear Mr. Townsend,

you are jumping on conclusions without facts and that makes it difficult to have a more friendly conversation.
From my point of view I see that
1) you do not know the little trick because intentionally I did not explain details.
2) you do not know whether such a wand exists or not
3) you do knot know whether this Chinese magician did create anything by himself or just bought his trick in a magic shop.

Nevertheless, the first thing you do is crying "foul" and suggest wrongdoing.

If you buy a coin trick in a magic shop and show it to others, you probably would not expect that others should not be allowed to try and find that shop and also buy the same trick.
Same here. Probably he might have bought it somewhere and I try to find out if someone knows where.

Exaggerations are usually counter productive and someone who unnecessarily suggests too often that others are always trying to steal might not be taken serious when it comes to real stealing.
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Postby Bill Mullins » 07/13/11 12:45 PM

Mr. Erb asked for help locating a dealer who might sell a particular item. This is an entirely legitimate request to make on a magic forum.

JT described this as "crowdsourcing the reverse engineering of someone else's act".

We have no evidence:
1. That Mr. Erb wants to do the Chinese magician's act.
2. That Mr. Erb is trying to reverse engineer the whole act.
3. That the wand that Mr. Erb is inspired to seek is the proprietary property of the Chinese magician -- the nature of his question suggests that it may be a dealer item.
4. That the purposes that Mr Erb wants to use the wand for are the same as those used by the CM.

Erb saw an effect. He figured out a possible method for the effect. Having come to a tentative conclusion about the method, he finds it intriguing, and wonders if it is available commercially.

Really, I don't see the foul here.

The accusatory tone of JT's responses are not justified by the request made by Mr Erb.
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Postby Jim Riser » 07/13/11 01:01 PM

:cool:

Richard;
Over the years I have handled, owned, and made a variety of gimmicked wands. I have never run across one as you describe.

It would be possible to make such a wand to deliver a stream of air controlled by an internal custom made rotary valve. This would be a very tiny stream not a burst of air. You would not believe how small the air hole would be. We are talking fine watchmaker drill sized hole.

If I wanted such a toy, I would make it to resemble a pen. By turning the "cap" I could control the air stream. The pen itself would be an air tank with a schrader or presta valve on one end. It could be recharged with a small bicycle tire pump.

The question then becomes no longer "have you seen one of these" to "is anyone willing to make one". There would be some R&D time involved in such an item. This R&D would be more costly than the finished item.
Jim

BTW - I consider air pressure to be a very under utilized principle in magic. Much can be done with the idea of using the properties of air. I have several pages of ideas for such air powered devices in magic. Maybe someday ...
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Postby Jonathan Brown » 07/13/11 08:28 PM

I'm curious what the effect was that you saw that would lead you to believe the effect used a wand like that! I feel that would be a pretty complicated method for the desired outcome...any chances of you sharing a description?

Jonathan
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Postby Richard Erb » 07/14/11 05:01 AM

Dear Jonathan,
I have sent you a pm with an explanation why I was excited about a well known trick with a small twitch.
Regards
Richard
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Postby Richard Erb » 07/14/11 05:03 AM

Dear Jim,
maybe I am wrong and there is another method to make a piece of silk twitch while it is lying on the table. A rubber bladder and a tube under the jacket? Or something even more simple? I do not know. I just thought it would be the wand.
I sent you a pm with a more detailed description
Regards
Richard
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Postby Jim Riser » 07/14/11 12:39 PM

Richard;
pm sent.
Jim
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Postby Jim Riser » 07/14/11 02:01 PM

:)
Richard;
Email me (not pm). I think I have the solution for you. Inexpensive too!

(Another product from Reverse Engineering Unlimited)
Jim
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