Underground Change - Any good ?

Discuss products and their reviews in Genii.

Postby Guest » 09/01/02 03:09 PM

Hi,

I read the recent review by Paul Cummins of Jamie Badman's 'Underground Change' and was left somewhat confused about whether it was recommended or not! The review seemed to spend a lot of time finding fault then finished by saying it was a good move. Would appreciate it if Paul or someone here who's bought the manuscript could help clarify whether this is considered to be a worthwhile purchase or not ?

I saw the vid clip on Jamie's web site and was very impressed - but had held back on buying the manuscript until I'd read a review - then when I read the Genii one, it seemed to spend an entire page tearing it to pieces for every reason under the sun yet concluded by saying it was a 'very good move'. As a result, I felt none the wiser. I've hung on for a review in Magic magazine but nothing's been printed there yet.

So what's the scoop ? Is the move any good ? Are there good effects in the booklet ? Is the one in the clip (www.underground-collective.co.uk) explained ? If that's as good as it looks 'in real life', it's one of the best and most commercial effects I've seen for years - but Paul doesn't really go overboard about it; with good reason ? Or did he just not see the clip ?! Also, any idea if the Underground Change stuff is available on a video ? Looks the kind of thing that would be really nice to have taught in that way. One thing Paul says is the explanation is kind of fuzzy.

Richard - a suggestion - it would be really good if Genii reviews concluded by rating the product in some way. It would have saved a lot of confusion.

Anyway, please guys - the lowdown - is this thing worth $15 of my hard-earned money ?

Thanks,

David.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 09/01/02 03:46 PM

The problem with the Underground Change is that it is not a new move. I believe Allan Ackerman had published it previously.
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Postby Jamie Badman » 09/02/02 01:15 AM

Richard, after all the discussion on here regarding the heritage of the move, I'm suprised you just wrote what you did.

The Underground Change is original by me. This is not disputed by anyone (except, apparently, by yourself) to my knowledge.

Allan Ackerman has even sent me an email in which he said that although he'd thought of performing a centre deal to switch a tabled card in a 'curry-like' way, he'd never considered or thought of anything like the Underground Change. The Underground Change uses a handling unlike any centre deal you've ever seen (because it's NOT a centre deal). It's easier than a centre deal and extremely flexible.

The problem was that someone mentioned Allan's idea of the centre deal switch and others blindly misinterpreted and misunderstood without making the effort to check the facts out for themselves. Your own Matthew Field made a similar comment to yourself a short while back in here and after I spoke to him regarding the above, he not only retracted his statement from the forum but he apologised.

So hopefully, this whole 'ownership' issue is cleared up. Yes, Ackerman has credits for his idea. No, he does not claim the Underground Change as his own because (1) he never thought of doing anything like it and (2) he's never come up with a handling like the Underground Change! Pretty clear cut, I'd say - how about you ?

As to whether it's good or bad - well I'd like to leave that for others who I've sold the manuscript to - or those I've met and taught the move to - comment on - I'm sort of biased so I'll stand back and let the customers decide.

But please let's lay this credit thing to rest; there's no controversy here - just misinformation.

Regards,

Jamie.
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Postby Andi » 09/02/02 01:48 AM

As a happy purchaser of the Underground Change, I'd like to make a few comments.

Firstly, I spoke to Allan about this a while back and he was more than happy to say that it was Jamie's idea and not the Curry centre that Matt Field and others insisted it was. Surely that should have set the whole debate to rest a long time ago? I'd be happy to dig out my correspondence with Allan if need be to keep the peace.

I've seen Jamie perform this move on a number of occasions at conventions around the UK and it never fails to draw a crowd. In fact, I recently attended a convention with a few friends and one commented that seeing Jamie perform the move in person was the highlight of the convention. The effects range from fun to fooling.

Its a good purchase... I'm glad I bought one (a hard copy, not an e-book).

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Postby Guest » 09/02/02 04:07 AM

David --

I think Paul Cummins's review was eminently fair. I was satisfied purchasing the manuscript at the download price but agree with others who have said it's a little content-thin at the hard-copy price. As Jamie's video shows, the move is a thing of beauty, but as Paul Cummins points out, it's not easy. Jamie posted a poll on his discussion board asking those who now knew the move if they could do it. Five readers responded. Three could; two couldn't.

There's an enormous archived thread on this board about the move; it makes for fascinating reading.
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Postby Jamie Badman » 09/02/02 04:21 AM

Talking of the hardcopy version, I don't sell this any more; I took on board the comments about the pricing (this being my first 'venture') and as a result ceased trading on the hardcopy, cut the price in half and offered an E-version. The E-Book version is just $15. This now includes an additional 2 effects from download in the E-Group area (membership free on purchase of the manuscript). I have created several more which I'll be posting when I have time.

The move isn't easy. Nothing worthwhile ever is - we as magicians should know this more than most. If anyone purchases the manuscript from me, however, if you have any questions about it I'll do my best to help. In addition, if anyone ever asks me in person about it, forget the manuscript - I'll just teach you the move there and then. No charge (but cards are thirsty work!). The art is more important than the dollar. (But maybe not as important as a cold beer!).

Jamie.
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Postby Guest » 09/02/02 05:09 AM

If you have occasion to cross the pond, Jamie, look me up, and we'll trade sleights over a round of Brooklyn Brown Ale.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 09/02/02 08:59 AM

Sorry Jamie, I apologize for the mis-post!
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Postby Jamie Badman » 09/02/02 09:07 AM

Nothing a beer won't sort out, Richard ;-)

I just want to keep the record straight.

Ralph; you're on!

Cheers,

Jamie.
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