Dribble Pass

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.

Postby Alpen » 03/01/11 10:01 PM

Has anyone seen this?

http://vimeo.com/15472114

Really?
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Postby Leonard Hevia » 03/02/11 08:41 PM

I think he's pretending to Dribble Pass and using a duplicate ten of clubs to make it appear it went to the top. I'm willing to bet he has a slew of black tens in that deck. Phooey!
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Postby Alpen » 03/03/11 01:32 AM

There's no question about that. I find it upsetting, especially since the technique which Patrick Redford claims to be doing is published in a manuscript that he sells for $40. While there are other things in the manuscript, it is possible that someone bought or will buy the manuscript for the description of the dribble pass (which, in the video, is not a dribble pass at all, but a dribble.) I don't get it. I expect it from the kids on youtube, but from someone who makes their living by performing and selling their material? Disappointing.

Ironically, from what I saw in the video, he isn't even a good enough card guy to know how to fake a pass, if that makes any sense.
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Postby Leonard Hevia » 03/19/11 12:49 PM

Your last post makes perfect sense Alpen. The best executed Dribble Pass still has to cover that top packet going over and under the bottom packet. Blazing speed and smooth technique gets the job done. Mr. Redford (not that Redford!) executed his fake Dribble Pass too slow to make it look like a real DP. You see the dribble and the top packet stay where it is.

His DP looked like what it should register in the minds of an audience--but it wasn't real. He's nothing but a con. Redford isn't even good enough to be called a con artist. Thurston sold fake jewelery and passed it off as real during his early struggling days, but at least he was an artist.
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Postby patrick redford » 03/27/11 10:38 AM

Hey there folks - Patrick Redford here. The video posted above IS NOT faked. I'd be happy to show the pass to anyone in person who'd like to learn it. It looks just as good in person as it does on video.

Someone else wrote me saying he slowed the video down frame by frame and couldn't see the pass. Due to slow frame rate of youtube videos/vimeo videos perhaps this is the reason the video looks so great. Otherwise it looks just as good in person.

The Dan Fishman Dribble pass looks great. The video above does show multiple version of the pass including a one with a top cover cover. This version is NOT taught in square but will be released with other Dan Fishman material in the future. The last bit "the riffle variant" is NOT a pass but a side steal. I hope this clears up any confusion. It is called "the last pass" however this last bit with a side steal I thought was funny more than anything else and posted it up on another forum.

Thanks for your interest in my work and for being so fooled by dribble pass.
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Postby Steve Bryant » 03/27/11 12:38 PM

Patrick, which of your manuscripts contains this pass?
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Postby Harry Lorayne » 03/27/11 01:11 PM

Would have made sense to use a different card each time, and to make sure not camera pauses existed. If you check out my Lorayne's Invisible Pass routine - somewhere on YouTube; I'm a lousy computer person, so can't tell you how to find it - you'll see what I mean. It's so obvious that "duplicate cards" would come to mind - so I "touch" on that immediately. Just an obvious thought. HL.
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 03/27/11 02:26 PM

Harry, not memorizing the YouTube ID codes for your videos?

I believe you can do it. Someone posts a question or names one of your items and you immediately respond with the YouTube key for that video - be impressive :)

Here's one for your Magic Square: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeaTzZO8jTU

The key part is the oeaTzZO8jTU

-J
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Postby M Petersen » 03/27/11 04:46 PM

Steve,

I believe Dan Fishman's dribble pass is taught on Patrick Redford's newest DVD HANDS OFF Any Card at Any Number. The pass looks pretty good on the DVD as well.

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Postby Alpen » 03/27/11 06:34 PM

Patrick,
So you're saying that one of the 'shifts' in the video was a top and bottom retention dribble block pass?
You turned the top card face up at one point (which doesn't prove anything) why not just put a card face up in the middle and have it come straight to the top?
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Postby Mark Tams » 03/28/11 01:43 PM

Alpen wrote:Patrick,
why not just put a card face up in the middle and have it come straight to the top?


and then re-post the video
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Postby skmayhew » 03/29/11 03:14 PM

You can see that it's fake by comparing the :08 mark to the :16 mark. The card is inserted too close to the bottom of the deck at :08 to account for all the cards that have been dribbled at :16.

It's a very smooth passless dribble, though, so at least he's got that going for him.
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Postby Alpen » 03/29/11 04:02 PM

Great point, Steve. Like I said in my second post, ironically he's not even a good enough card guy to know HOW to fake a pass. Or a side steal for that matter, as he claims to be doing on the last one.


patrick redford wrote:Thanks for your interest in my work and for being so fooled by dribble pass.


Patrick, the only real interest here is in calling you out, and the only fooling aspect is that some actually thought you were doing what you claimed to be doing.
To come onto a board (run by someone who is considered to be an expert on the shift and frequented by many others who are in the same category) and insist that you weren't faking it, is insulting. You're only digging yourself deeper.
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Postby Leonard Hevia » 03/29/11 07:15 PM

Skmayhew--
Alpen and I have already exposed Patrick's hoax, yet he continues to make a farce out of these proceedings. I submit that he is little more than a high school senior who is utilizing his Internet skills to con his freshmen compatriots out of their after school activity and lunch money. It's all easy graft for him.

But it's still not too late for Patrick. He can redeem himself by using the money he (earned?) from his Dribble Pass video and purchase a good lawnmower. Now that Spring is upon us, Patrick can spend his weekends mowing lawns so that he can understand the value of earning money through a hard day's work. After Patrick cleans the lawnmower and locks it in his father's toolshed at the end of the day, he can begin compiling data on a five page, double-spaced dissertation on the history and evolution of the Pass.

The Pass is a move that was popular in the early 20th century, then it fell out of favor roughly thirty years later. In the last 30 to 40 years, it has regained popularity thanks to a number of highly skilled East Coast cardmen, and the published works of Richard Kaufman. Patrick's dissertation should include a number of salient points on the underlying reasons for this phenomenon. He should also include a Works Cited page along with his paper. If the Works Cited page is filled with nothing but Internet websites as references, his entire paper will be disqualified. A Works Cited page should consist primarily of textual and periodical listings. Points will be taken off for bad grammar and punctuation.

Mowing lawns (yes, his hands will blister) from now until August, and a scholarly study of the Pass will nourish Patrick's mind, body , and soul. Who knows? It might also benefit magic...

...Or

Patrick can repose on his sofa like he does on that Dribble Pass video and continue to fantasize that he is the heir to Dr. Elliott's throne as the "World Champion Card Manipulator." Patrick? Patrick! Oh dear. He fell asleep on the couch and he left the T.V. on. It's flickering a cable rerun of Beavis and Butthead. The deck he was noodling with has slipped out of his
hand and the cards have scattered on the floor. Some of them are face up, and some are face down. I see a Jack of Hearts, and a Three of Spades. Oh look, there's the Professor's favorite card, the Ace of Clubs. You can almost do a Triumph routine right there on the floor.

A small dog has just walked into the room. It's a cute beagle. Oh, oh, it's sniffing the cards. Now it's licking them. The animal has detected remnants of that peanut butter and jelly sandwich Patrick had for lunch at school today. When he wakes up, all Hell will break loose...
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Postby patrick redford » 03/30/11 05:06 PM

For your enjoyment I took my some of my valuable time to re-shoot a video of the Dan Fishman Dribble Pass. You may view it at www.qik.com/patrickredford.

Thanks for your respectable comments and your kind interest in my videos.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 03/30/11 05:19 PM

I clicked on the link posted and can find no pass video of any kind.
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Postby David Ben » 03/30/11 05:47 PM

I haven't seen the second video but, after screening the initial video, it could very well be a pass. My guess is that he is "passing" one card. The tell for me is the angle at which the video was shot.

If you insert the single card into pack so that the left inner corner of the selection comes out the other end of the deck, much as in the Diagonal Palm Shift, and the right thumb is used as the fulcrum, the card extends outside the right side of the pack, almost in the same plane as the pack. When you dribble the cards, the selected card pivots out the right side as a single card (not the block as in the traditional pass), the left fingers acting as a hinge as in a traditional pass, and the card can be positioned on top, underneath a card, etc, without disturbing the bottom, or the order of any other card. So, it is - in essence - a pass, but of a single card, and not done as a traditional Sidesteal. Of course, I could be completely off base in which case, I'll claim the move.
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Postby David Ben » 03/30/11 06:00 PM

I just looked at the video again, and then played with the move. A very slight action to get the card out the right side so that the left fingers can be the hinge is all that is required. Again, I may be completely off base on the technique, but it does it work and would qualify, I believe, as a pass.
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Postby Alpen » 03/30/11 06:17 PM

That's really nice David!
The dribble pass that's being claimed to be done in the video (the Fishman Dribble Pass) is a block pass, similar to the Shields Dribble Block Pass, and, in my opinion, an inferior version of the unpublished Conover pass that I showed you last time I saw you.
So that's one nice thing to come out of this, a new great move. Thanks for sharing it.
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Postby David Ben » 03/30/11 07:35 PM

Well, okay. Not sure it's particularly great, but thanks. As for the "dribble block pass", it's funny how many of us stumble onto the same things. I have a "dribble block pass" (although I can't recall if I showed it to you), only I have never bothered to name it as such. Someone once mentioned to me that Tim and I had a similar approach on this sort of thing. Although I met Tim some twenty-five years ago, our paths did not cross - at least in person - again. Hopefully Tim's unpublished work will see the light of day.
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Postby Alpen » 03/30/11 08:24 PM

Yes you did show it to me, I thought it was great, especially the context you used it in, and I remember you mentioning that someone said that the two were similar, but I thought there were some important differences in the handlings.
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Postby patrick redford » 03/30/11 09:25 PM

http://qik.com/m/video/38814475

Yees that riffle variant is done much that way. Contact me off site and ill send you a how to video. Thanks for your support
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Postby patrick redford » 03/30/11 09:26 PM

And thanks again David.
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Postby Daniel Fishman » 03/30/11 10:33 PM

Well now,

Hmmmmmmmmmm......

To defend my friends honor and the move!

Firstly, it sounds like someone has some major personal issues, and feels the need to unjustly make statements and accusations that they obviously know little about...you have some very vocal opinions with absolutely NO basis. Learn the thing and then form an opinion!

Seriously, a few of you seem to be unable to admit you were fooled. Rejoice and enjoy the moment, stop the negativity for god's sake! Go learn the move!

So what! You were fooled, and therefore it must have been accomplished by duplicates cheating or whatever? Are your egos that fragile? Go learn the move!

I would be, and always am when it happens, thrilled when I am fooled by a move or effect. I would do all I could to hunt down, learn, study and add it to my existing skill set. But what do I know...I have only been a full time pro since 1989.

Insulting Georges integrity, as well as my move, is an insult to me as well. Therefore...

To set the record straight!

I am Daniel Fishman. The inventor of a Dribble Pass!

The video is real, so is the pass, and so is my dear friends ability to execute it DAMM WELL! If you don't believe him or I, well ask for more info, try a live chat, meet up face to face...why just attack? Shows how weak your point of view truly is.

Coincidently, the video you have seen was released on a private, members only board-"The Second Deal".

It was a pre-release of Georges graphic novel, my currently in the making new notes, book and 2012 lecture tour. (Maybe a few in 2011)

Its' purpose was to show how it looks to fellow "Second Dealer's". It was NOT for YOU! Sorry, you weren't included in that "loop". All those who it was meant for, enjoyed it a great deal.

FYI, everyone who has since purchased his book, has had nothing but the nicest of things to say about it, the effects, material and his book. Additionally a few of those who could not afford it at the time, but were nice enough to ask, were sent the bare bones write up of the move for free. Yes all "Second Dealers".

So before you chastise someone or as you said..."Calling someone out", you might want to learn the move. At the very least be invited to watch the move. Just a thought here, but if you need to go on the cheap, then at least talk to anyone who does the move and go see it. You could also find someone who owns the book, read it, and try it out. Or is that just to much to ask of such an "EXPERT" on the pass?

Okay I am off the soap box now. In the near future, there will be several videos, DVDs, and notes that will include this move, with all of the current variations and several other great utility moves, tricks, and routines soon enough. I hope you don't mind if I do this on my timetable and not yours.




Some additional facts for credit, history and the record keepers!


1. My dribble pass, has been around for over 20 years.
2. First taught it when I lecture at "Michigan Magic Day", I believe 1990 or 1991...I will confirm exact date, before any major release.
3. It was developed and has gone thru several slight changes variations and improvements with the aid of my friends and mentors: Bill Kalush,( The man who inspired my study of the Pass and INHO, THE master of the pass.) Bob Stencil, John Luka, and Ron Bauer.
4. It was perfected over more close up shows, than most if anyone has ever worked. During a 5 1/2 year period (1990-1995) I worked a 17 show a week life. Those gigs were 2-3 hours a piece, or approximately 800 shows a year. Really closer to 880 shows or almost 2,000 hours a year before practice and rehearsal time, but who is counting.
5. Over that period of time, it was shown and taught to dozens magicians, from beginners to the top of the top guys!
6. It was also shown to dozens of great magicians during my 1995/1996 season at "Malone's Magic Bar". Including , Williamson, Swain, and Zarro. Also in 1996 I received 2nd place at the Florida State Magic competition, for close-up. I had no act and winged it...I used the Dribble pass as my control for the competition. After the results came in, I taught it to everyone who wanted to learn it.
7. Upon my return to Michigan, I lectured and sold 70 copies of my notes and eventual sold out of the whole lot of 250 copies during the next few months. This set of notes included the second write up of the Dribble Pass and it was named the "Bottom Card Cover Gravity Dribble Pass". I know horrid name, to descriptive, but I was younger than.
8. It was shown around at the 2nd, "Second Deal" convention in Chicago. This convention was an honor to Marlo's life and all of his students were present as well as the pre-release of the big bound book itself. I showed this move and others to everyone and anyone. Friends like, Mike Powers, Paul Cummings, and Kosta to name a few. Kosta stills owes me a move in trade! I will collect someday my friend!
9. By 1998, February 2nd 1998 to be exact, I opened my own place. Called "Illusions Bar and grill", in Royal Oak MI. A small $2.5 million dollar, 186 seat magic bar and grill with non-stop magic. I think a tens of thousands of people came thru my doors monthly. Even some magicians came in and saw, learned or played with the move.
10. Since then, the concepts and ideas behind my pass have been floating around the so called "Underground". They move has been borrowed, stolen, dived up, and watered down.

I truly think a few great people, thinkers and workers have independently invented parts of it, if not all of it in one way or another.

Believe me, if you are a real worker and spend enough time thinking about these sort of things, I am sure some would eventual come to similar if not the same conclusions. It only makes sense! And those few who have...I commend and applaud your work, dedication and contributions to our art. I can't wait to share, and collaborate with you!


I hope that clears up the who, what, where, when, and whys from my point of view.

If anyone wants to learn, please feel free to contact me. Those who are idiots...please, find a real life, a different hobby, we have enough to deal with, without your attitudes, rants and tantrums. I wish you well, but stay away from me...I have more important and fun things planned.

All the best, catch you later,
Daniel
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 03/31/11 12:08 AM

I keep clicking on the link to the video and can't see it. I would LIKE to see it so I know what everyone is talking about! :)
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Postby Daniel Fishman » 03/31/11 12:30 AM

hi Richy,

Will do, I will get George to fix.

I have also talked with him about shooting me do a few angles and variations for the sake of posterity. I will send that directly to you when we get a chance. All my best!

Catch,
Daniel
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Postby Alpen » 03/31/11 12:46 AM

Dan,

Thank you for taking the time to post about this.

Firstly, I have no personal issues with Patrick. I have never met him and have nothing against him. I stand by my belief that there was no shift (or side steal) being done in the video. That is not to say that he can't do it, or that it doesn't look good when he, or you, do it. I've seen his "Hands Off" where he actually does the move, and it looks fine. I'm sure it looks fine when you do it. My previous comments, and this thread, only refer to that specific video.

Nor do I have any issues with your move, I am not insulting it at all. Saying that IN MY OPINION, another version is better, is not an insult, just an opinion. Anytime you publish something, there is the possibility of some not liking your material, or thinking other versions are superior, and if this bothers you, then you should reconsider releasing your material.

You assumption of my not having learned the move has no basis. I have the "Square" manuscript that it's taught in, so I am quite familiar with the mechanics. I like to support those who publish and release material, so it is not in my nature to go "on the cheap," nor do I need to. I learned the basic idea of a dribble block pass when it was published by Aaron Shields, and then Tim Conover taught me his handling which is (again, in my opinion) superior to both the Shields and your version. I then read the write-up of your move when "Square" was published.

In addition to the "Square" manuscript, I have seen (as I previously mentioned) Patrick's new instructional video "Hands Off" so I have therefore seen him do the move a different circumstance. Again, I stand by my original belief. It looks fine when he actually does the move, just doesn't look anything like the move done in the video in question

Being interested in the type of card work that I am, I can promise you that I'd much (MUCH) rather see someone do what they say they are doing and have it look that good. I come from a school of thought where men travelled half-way across the country just to see someone deal from the middle of a deck. The only reason I have a problem with his video is that I have spent way too much time and effort studying and practicing to not be bothered by someone faking a video of a move. Again, I'm not referring to anonymous YouTube videos of kids trying to look better then they are, I'm talking about a full-time pro posting a video in which he claims to be doing shift, but isn't.

I'm not sure who that "EXPERT" comment is directed to, I never claimed to be an expert on the shift. I am a serious student of shift work, and have had the good fortune to have teachers and friends who are some of the best in the world when it comes to shift work (and card work in general,) but again, I never claimed expertise.

Lastly, thank you for including all of the extra information about you past and performance history, however, none of it is relevant. I'm sure you have performed as much as you say you have. I'm sure your mentors (its Stencel, not Stencil) helped you and you did in fact show it to all those gentlemen (its Zarrow, not Zarro) and your friends (its Cummins, not Cummings) did like it, but again, no one ever questioned your integrity or implied that it wasn't yours, so it has nothing to do with this topic.


Best,
Alpen
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Postby patrick redford » 03/31/11 01:16 AM

Sorry the videos were locked by default on the Qik network but did cross post public to youtube as well. They are now all visible along side additional comments from those that came out to my recent lecture tour dates.

The Dribble Pass with a face up card filmed earlier today while I was out on the road driving between gigs.

http://qik.com/video/38814475

Feel free to explore the other videos of what some folks had to say along my travels.


Lastly, the write up in Square is the bare-bones of the move. So you don't have all the work on it. It (and neither does the DVD) DOES NOT include the cover card pass or the riffle variant. The two publications do not include anything more than the bare bones of the move required to accomplish the effect that the move is being taught along side. Again, the video was made as a teaser and intended for a specific viewing audience as detailed above.
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Postby DrDanny » 03/31/11 09:23 AM

patrick redford wrote:... filmed earlier today while I was out on the road driving ...


A bit dangerous, innit? Please warn us when you're in the area.
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Postby Apobes » 03/31/11 10:36 AM

so my guess from the second video is a classic pass and a regular dribble
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Postby Caleb Wiles » 03/31/11 12:07 PM

Hey guys,

I saw this topic right before Patrick came to Indianapolis to lecture. Afterward, I asked if I could shoot him doing the move and then post it to this discussion. I'm not making any claims about the authenticity of the original video, but I can verify that this video is legit. Whether or not this matches what you saw before is something that you'll have to decide for yourself.

http://vimeo.com/21747778

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Postby Richard Kaufman » 03/31/11 12:41 PM

Having watched the Shift I will now offer my two cents if anyone [censored] a give.

It looks very good, however the angle at which it is deceptive appears to be limited to the performer standing with his left side facing the audience so the entire length of the left thumb from base to tip conceals the long side the of the deck. The fact that you cannot see any of the upper half of the deck from this angle explains why you don't see the block go.

I like the fact that there doesn't appear to be any noticeable dip of the left fingers, though there is a lot of riffling and finicky finger activity taking place all the time (including before and after).

Yes, it looks good, and I don't think it's fake (though it certainly would be possible to do that if one wanted to).

I would like to see the Shift from some angle other than the camera looking solely at the left side of the left hand--that's great if you're working for one or two people, but not so great if there are more folks. Also, with the dead eye of the camera, it's very easy to control an vertical leaks--note that not only can you not see the left side of the deck's upper portion due to the left thumb, but you also never see the top of the deck at the moment the Shift takes place. Another limitation.
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Postby Steve Bryant » 03/31/11 12:54 PM

It was a kick to see Patrick perform the dribble pass at Caleb's lecture event as well as everything else Patrick performed and demonstrated in his lecture.

I was going to save this comment for Little Egypt Magic, but will mention it here as the attention is on Patrick right now. He has some great offerings, but in particular Square is one of the most exciting books on card magic that I have purchased in quite a while. The four card tricks within are dramatized in comic book format featuring many magicians you know (even the ghost of Karrell Fox), and there is some really funny stuff there. But the tricks are absolute gems, all of them, and two will immediately go into my active performing repertoire. Patrick performed only one from this book in his lecture, an enormously entertaining three-phase Mexican poker routine, so the other three were a delightful surprise.
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Postby Daniel Fishman » 03/31/11 02:02 PM

@ Richard,

Yes you are correct that there is a angle issue or 2. As you know with any pass or shift this is always the major concern once you achieve the tech, speed and timing you are attempting to achieve. As I was always taught, "Once you solve 1 problem with the shift, you create 2 new ones."

The Angle you need to be concerned about is really the direct left/back side. From your right elbow towards your hip bone. The Angle at which George demos in the last video is THE best and easiest to cover. A slight body turn during conversation easily handles this as it does with shifts having this weakness. He prefers to utilizes the top card cover grip to deal with this front and top angles. That effectively allows most watcher to burn this move. Although good entertainers, can all but ensure that the audience is rarely even looking.

I do employ this tech for a few effects, but I prefer to hide it via the deck angle and dribble action. The most efficient way to cover is to toy with this the deck angle...

So, once the shift is about to occur, the front and left edge get slightly raised for a moment as the lower packet starts the dribble action. I dribble the cards at this angle...front and left edge both slightly raised for the entire dribble to allow for this cover and to keep the dribble action smooth and almost cascade-esk. The last few cards and both of the hands slowly adjust back to a flat position or horizontal plane just as the dribbling is finishing.

So the start and end image is the same, the dribble action and control only take a second or 2 at most. It is a very carefree look and feel.

I hope that explains a few of the points you were curious about...be assured I will send you a right up in its entirety once it is finished...theres is a lot more when it comes to the overall finesse.

Catch you later,
Daniel
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Postby Daniel Fishman » 03/31/11 02:07 PM

Oh, one more thing.

Although I stated that the left side is the weakest...I have had some success with this angle being left open and viewable.

By increase the fore mentioned angle even more, the left side, if burning the deck, will see nothing but a brief hiccup at the beginning of the dribble. Almost like a slight delay in the dribble action. The duality of the situation is that the rest of the observers will see the action start at a slightly different time. At first this made me feel guilty, odd to say the least. Now I could care less as long as they enjoy the entertainment and are fooled.

Catch,
Daniel
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Postby Daniel Fishman » 03/31/11 02:12 PM

@ Apobes...no. The shift happens during the dribble.

@ DrDanny....he dose drive blind folded and hooded...how hard can filming, demo, and driving be? Hey theres a knew challenge.
George...do all the above while blindfolded. But as Dr Danny says...warn us!
Daniel
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Postby Daniel Fishman » 03/31/11 02:33 PM

@ Alpen...

Firstly thank you so much for correcting the typos. Odd that you focus on that at all. Wow!

I am so glad to hear that you have his book, but from all your prior statements, it seems that you did not own it, never seen it, read or talked with anyone who does it. In fact your and Leonard's purpose was simple an attempt to degrade, insult, put down a very good man.

I would think you prior statements would have been stated differently if you had owned or even read the material. Although it is a bare bones description in square, there is enough there to accomplish the move and have it look as it does on Georges video.

I can appreciate you "Standing by your opinion", but to call a good friend of mine a liar and cheat warrants a reply from anyone who knows different. And I do know you are wrong.

Please read and learn the thing. If you want to make a spectacle and attack someone publicly with your buddy, at least be honorable and contact him directly. Possibly verify if your opinion is even remotely correct before going to a public forum.

You may also find you get MORE and proper information. This would prevent you from looking as childish as some do when they make such blanket accusations.

Additionally if you have something "so much better", especially if it isn't yours (Tim C's), you may consider keeping your opinion to yourself...since it isn't your and you are not able to show and or discuss it for comparison.

All the best,
Daniel
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Postby skmayhew » 03/31/11 03:45 PM

patrick redford wrote:
http://qik.com/video/38814475



Yep. That's a dribble pass. Notice that the card is inserted about 1/4 from the top of the deck. Compare that to the first video where the card is inserted about 1/4 from the bottom of the deck. That's not a dribble pass.
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Postby Alpen » 03/31/11 11:31 PM

Steve,
Exactly, I agree, and that's my point. I never said he couldn't do it, or that it wasn't a good move. All I was saying was that in the original video, there wasn't a shift being done.


Dan,
I wasn't correcting your typos, I think you completely missed the meaning on that one.

Verify if my opinion is correct? Opinions are subjective, it is impossible to say whether an opinion is correct or not. Everyone is entitled to them, and entitled to express them in an appropriate way in an appropriate forum.

It's a very bold assumption to make that "it seems that you did not own it, never seen it, read or talked with anyone who does it." Unless I explicitly said that, which I didn't, there's no way that you could draw those conclusions from anything I said. Conversely, I actually made reference to their being other things in the book aside from the pass, and if you do a search for "Square," the websites that sell the booklet don't even list the dribble pass as part of the contents (at least none of the ones I saw do) so if anything, one would assume that I DO have it, but again, your assumption has no basis.

I don't know who you're referring to by "buddy." If it's Leonard your referring to, I have never met him, do not know him, and this thread was my first contact with him (in the form of a reply to a thread.) Again an erroneous assumption on your part.

See, I'm not making a blanket accusation. And that's where the main issue concerning your defensive responses is. You have extrapolated my original statement to include Patrick personally, your move, and the integrity of it (going as far as listing people and dates.... for what reason, I'm not sure.) I only made a statement about the one original video.

Granted this is a public forum, my comment about Tim Conover's shift was part of a message directed in response to someone, not a general statement. However, I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with someone saying that they know of an unpublished version and stating their opinion of it, if anything, it adds to the general knowledge bank.


Best,
Alpen
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Postby erdnasephile » 04/01/11 11:27 AM

I'll leave the discussion of the relative merits of this shift to others.

However, as someone who actually has to deal with the real-life carnage caused by distracted/pranking drivers, I am dismayed that someone would foolishly produce such a needless video just to prove a point.
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