Riffle stacking

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.

Postby tegib » 01/30/11 05:57 AM

Here are some videos where I perform gambling moves. It's mainly riffle stacking but it has some false shuffles and second deals,
Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYhiJ..._order&list=UL - Push - off second deal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUiBT..._order&list=UL - Riffle stacking
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyVlW..._order&list=UL - Push through false shuffle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwBWh..._order&list=UL - More stacking and a stock control
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cnoc..._order&list=UL - Strike second and more stacking
tegib
 
Posts: 9
Joined: 02/14/10 01:27 PM

Postby Eoin O'hare » 01/30/11 09:29 AM

All links say,"The URL contained a malformed video ID."
Designer & Maker of The Stripper Jig Card Trimmer
User avatar
Eoin O'hare
 
Posts: 124
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Ireland


Postby Kent Gunn » 01/31/11 01:30 AM

Badass.

Please, tell me you're not like . . . sixteen or something.

Great looking stuff man. Simply great.

KG
Kent Gunn
 
Posts: 578
Joined: 05/15/08 02:05 PM
Location: Florida

Postby tegib » 01/31/11 04:42 AM

Tnx. I'm actually 14
tegib
 
Posts: 9
Joined: 02/14/10 01:27 PM

Postby Jonathan Townsend » 01/31/11 08:36 AM

How well do they work when you're in card games playing for money?
Mundus vult decipi
Jonathan Townsend
 
Posts: 6591
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Westchester, NY

Postby Kent Gunn » 01/31/11 10:43 AM

Cardshark,

Ignore Jon, he doesn't really think a fourteen-year-old is sitting in card games and cheating people. If you were, you wouldn't post cheating videos on-line.

Do you do magic stuff as well, or are you focusing just on cheating sleights?

KG
Kent Gunn
 
Posts: 578
Joined: 05/15/08 02:05 PM
Location: Florida

Postby Jonathan Townsend » 01/31/11 12:34 PM

Ahem :(

@CS You don't know if a thing works till you use it in context. After you can move in a game you can use what you know for methods in magic. Till then it's figiting and can come across as unsavory. If you can use a pass to undo a cut, hop a hand, swap in a card or two, and deal a few select cards to yourself you are doing very well and have a great set of tools for entertaining (where no mention need be made of any card games). After that you can take a few liberties from parlor magic and get on to the poetry of magic. :)

What many forget is that one needs to learn when and how to 'move' - and that is what permits sleights to become invisible.


Just answer your email Kent. ;)
Jonathan Townsend
 
Posts: 6591
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Westchester, NY

Postby Ian Kendall » 01/31/11 12:43 PM

For many people, when practicing gambling related sleights, the moves are often an end unto themselves - just being able to execute them is reward enough for the work. I spend an inordinate amount of time playing with sundry moves that I would never use in a game, but they please me, and provide an effective barometer for my slightly obsessive nature. I can, however, throw in a false shuffle and cut sequence and a muck or two into a magic routine quite adroitely without having cheated at poker.

The idea that you need to have moved in a card game to understand if a push through shuffle is deceptive is [censored].

Take care, Ian
Ian Kendall
 
Posts: 2111
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Edinburgh

Postby Jonathan Townsend » 01/31/11 12:50 PM

Ian Kendall wrote:...I can, however, throw in a false shuffle and cut sequence and a muck or two into a magic routine quite adroitely ...


Okay, and do they sense you did anything fancy or possibly sneaky?
Jonathan Townsend
 
Posts: 6591
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Westchester, NY

Postby Ian Kendall » 01/31/11 01:12 PM

In the context in which I use them, not so much. But then again, one can never be sure.

The other side of the coin is that of demonstration work, where being fancy or possibly sneaky is all part of the show.

With an understanding of attention management and sufficient chops it's easy to muck out a selection as a spectator covers it with her hand, only to produce it elsewhere for a magical effect, so again I call [censored].

Take care, Ian
Ian Kendall
 
Posts: 2111
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Edinburgh

Postby Jonathan Townsend » 01/31/11 01:52 PM

uh - yeah - right- whatever you say

Has the first episode of Becoming Human aired yet?

In the mean time, if you have a card selected and ask them to keep the value of the card in mind. Openly return it to the top of the pack and then start dealing - asking them to stop you when you've dealt as many cards on top of their card as the value of their card you have a simple setup for a revelation and a way to know if your false deal is working.

Ah what the heck - here's another:
deal out the deck face up to seperate the suits and ask volunteers to sort the cards, putting the aces at the front. Retrieve the packets and thank them assembling the deck and as you explain that the order of the cards is very important for this next bit of magic. Start shuffling the pack as you mention that some people practice a perfect shuffle that works where after eight of such you get the pack back in order. But that's way too risky for a magic show so you'd rather use some magic. Stop shuffling and remove a paper bag from your pocket. Snap the bag open and drop in the deck. Shake the bag a few times and then remove the deck. Spread the deck face up on the table and watch their reactions.
Last edited by Jonathan Townsend on 01/31/11 02:01 PM, edited 0 times in total.
Reason: for those who are enjoying the show Being Human :)
Jonathan Townsend
 
Posts: 6591
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Westchester, NY

Postby Q. Kumber » 01/31/11 02:01 PM

I thought the guy in the videos was very good, even though he was demonstrating moves with no context other than sharing his skill with us and perhaps getting some feedback.

I'm reminded of last year's Blackpool convention late in the Ruskin. A group of teenage magicians came in and sat at the next tables and proceeded to do sequences of difficult card flourishes. In my innocence I asked if they were from the "Dan and Dave" school. I was given a look of complete disdain as though they could never stoop to anything so uncool. No these guys were into ECM.

What the heck is that? If you already know, then you must be out there in the thick of the underground. It stands for Extreme Card Manipulation.

As far as I could observe it is more a subset of juggling than magic.
User avatar
Q. Kumber
 
Posts: 907
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Manchester, England

Postby Jonathan Townsend » 01/31/11 02:03 PM

XCM - http://www.xtremecardmanipulation.com/

Agreed about the juggling context there. While Hofzinser did some such at the start of his performance to demonstrate that he could make the pack of cards obey his whims - what I've seen of XCM seems to put an emphasis on skill rather than enchantment.
Jonathan Townsend
 
Posts: 6591
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Westchester, NY

Postby Ian Kendall » 01/31/11 02:16 PM

uh - yeah - right- whatever you say


Hey, you started it...

Did you really have to deal seconds in a game to come up with a standard revelation using the deal? Did you have to use false shuffles under fire to come up with that bag routine (fun though it sounds)?

I don't watch TV much, isn't Being Human about vampires or something?

XCM is more about skill over surprise. Plus, it doesn't really fly in many home games...

Ian
Ian Kendall
 
Posts: 2111
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Edinburgh

Postby Jonathan Townsend » 01/31/11 02:46 PM

Ian Kendall wrote: ...Did you really have to deal seconds in a game to come up with a standard revelation using the deal? Did you have to use false shuffles under fire to come up with that bag routine (fun though it sounds)?...


Thanks Ian,

Those tricks were (off the top of my head) just exercises where one could quickly find out whether ones false deals and shuffles would fly since they are all that's used as the methods. In the false deal exercise I'd suggest doing something other than just showing the card now on top of the pack as the revelation. Perhaps something where after they have about half the pack in hand with what they think is their card in there somewhere, you get their card to the right position by more dealing as you talk, then swap packets with them - and then ask them to deal down to the right number? :D - that's pretty close to a Wes James trick, The Leaper, as I recall.
Jonathan Townsend
 
Posts: 6591
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Westchester, NY

Postby Ian Kendall » 01/31/11 03:39 PM

That's kind of my point, Jon. At the start of the page you are telling a 14 year old kid that he has to have moved in a game to be able to use the skills he has, and now you are giving examples of perfectly viable uses for the same, but without the prerequisite of a lifetime of larceny. Make up your mind.

The fact remains that your initial advice was flawed at best, which is why I called [censored]. That you seem to have taken the same stance does support the notion somewhat.

Enough. To the original poster; I enjoyed the couple of videos I watched. Well done.

Ian
Ian Kendall
 
Posts: 2111
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Edinburgh

Postby Jonathan Townsend » 01/31/11 04:08 PM

Ian Kendall wrote:...The idea that you need to have moved in a card game to understand if a push through shuffle is deceptive is [censored].


Okay Ian, how else might one know and be sure?
Jonathan Townsend
 
Posts: 6591
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Westchester, NY

Postby Jonathan Townsend » 01/31/11 04:13 PM

Okay Ian, folks, how else might one know and be sure? Magic audiences tend to be less wary than folks waiting to get dealt their next hand hoping to win.

On this side, not sure if the mechanics of the shuffles and deals need to be altered to adjust for working on ones feet as one usually does when performing compared to seated when in a card game.
Jonathan Townsend
 
Posts: 6591
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Westchester, NY

Postby Ian Kendall » 01/31/11 04:31 PM

Okay Ian, how else might one know and be sure


Seriously? The same way you work in any other sleight or handling - diligent practice and rehearsal followed by testing in a safe environment or seeking council from trusted friends.

This is the problem with the arguement, Jon. Taking it to reductio ad absurdum (and it's not that far, to be honest) one could say that you should not use a shuttle pass unless you have worked in a short change booth at the county fair. If I were to use a push through shuffle for the first time, I'd much rather it were in a magic show than in a poker game where I'd likely leave with fewer working apendages should my technique prove less than satisfactory. Surely it would be safer to work in the move for five years at a magic gig before using it to steal money at a gaming table than the other way round. Unless you like to live dangerously...

These moves are like any other sleights, be they coin vanishes, dissolving knots or a double lift - they just have a different ancestor. The process of working them, and working with them, is no different.
Ian Kendall
 
Posts: 2111
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Edinburgh

Postby Glenn Bishop » 01/31/11 04:48 PM

Ian Kendall wrote:The idea that you need to have moved in a card game to understand if a push through shuffle is deceptive is [censored].

Take care, Ian

I remember watching Jack Pyle do the push through shuffle just before he did an Out of this world kind of effect. I also had it on my web site for a time.

The way that I acid test things - push through - Steven's cull - Triumph shuffle work - Punch cull work - Second and bottom dealing etc. Is I do it for people the same way I work out any other kind of move. As Ian says very nicely below.

Ian Kendall wrote: Seriously? The same way you work in any other sleight or handling - diligent practice and rehearsal followed by testing in a safe environment or seeking council from trusted friends.

And if I may add - then doing the move at crunch time in front of different audiences for a long time. And if the move doesnt work - adapt and change to suit the performing needs and then acid test the idea again until it works.

Ian Kendall wrote:This is the problem with the arguement, Jon. Taking it to reductio ad absurdum (and it's not that far, to be honest) one could say that you should not use a shuttle pass unless you have worked in a short change booth at the county fair. If I were to use a push through shuffle for the first time, I'd much rather it were in a magic show than in a poker game where I'd likely leave with fewer working apendages should my technique prove less than satisfactory. Surely it would be safer to work in the move for five years at a magic gig before using it to steal money at a gaming table than the other way round. Unless you like to live dangerously...

These moves are like any other sleights, be they coin vanishes, dissolving knots or a double lift - they just have a different ancestor. The process of working them, and working with them, is no different.


I agree!

Just my opinion!
Glenn Bishop
 
Posts: 642
Joined: 03/14/08 10:52 AM

Postby Eoin O'hare » 01/31/11 04:53 PM

Whatever, the kid's damn good.
Designer & Maker of The Stripper Jig Card Trimmer
User avatar
Eoin O'hare
 
Posts: 124
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Ireland

Postby John Wilson » 01/31/11 05:48 PM

Excellent work.
John Wilson
 
Posts: 98
Joined: 06/23/08 07:43 PM

Postby Kent Gunn » 01/31/11 05:49 PM

Hey Cardshark,

Ignore the adults prattling on. You're doing some very difficult stuff really well. Encouragement and jealousy is all I have to offer. If you stick with it, being at this level at 14 years-of-age, you will be a sight to see in another couple of years.

Shuffle on with your bad self!

KG
Kent Gunn
 
Posts: 578
Joined: 05/15/08 02:05 PM
Location: Florida

Postby erdnasephile » 01/31/11 06:24 PM

I appreciate your enthusiasm and your skill, Cardshark. (As a practical suggestion, you might track down a used copy of the Charlie Miller/Johnny Thompson DVD or tape (from Steven's Magic) with regards to the push through shuffle--they give away some fine points on the shuffle on that DVD that you might find interesting).

Keep working and have fun!

(For the oldies here (like me): it really is amazing in the Information Age how skillful some have become at such an early age! It's actually rather inspirational to see this--gotta work harder to catch up to these young people! :) ).
User avatar
erdnasephile
 
Posts: 1967
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM

Postby Gordolini » 01/31/11 07:16 PM

FYI - Regarding the Miller/Thompson DVD - the work discussed is on the pull-out (or strip-out) shuffle and up the ladder cut.
Gordolini
 
Posts: 111
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Louisville, KY

Postby Kent Gunn » 01/31/11 07:51 PM

Cardshark,

I'm older than 14, lots older. I do like to practice false shuffles and riffle stacking. NOT that I advocate this particular trick, but . . . if you put your skills into presenting an actual magic trick it gives you material that is easier to put before an real audience.

This old fat guy can do some of the stuff . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=818flW02CME

KG
Kent Gunn
 
Posts: 578
Joined: 05/15/08 02:05 PM
Location: Florida

Postby erdnasephile » 01/31/11 08:55 PM

Gordolini wrote:FYI - Regarding the Miller/Thompson DVD - the work discussed is on the pull-out (or strip-out) shuffle and up the ladder cut.


Thank you, Sir--I stand corrected (See, I told you I was gettin' old!)
User avatar
erdnasephile
 
Posts: 1967
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM

Postby Glenn Bishop » 02/01/11 10:47 AM

Very nicely done cardshark.

I remember when I was young - I was in my room watching Ricky Jay on the Dinna show (on TV before video tape) in the early afternoon. I was working on doing the push through shuffle - and before the strip out I spread the cards on the mat - and did the turnover - after the turnover spread - I striped the cards.

There is a whole story about this for another time.

Keep up the good work.

Cheers!
Glenn Bishop
 
Posts: 642
Joined: 03/14/08 10:52 AM

Postby erdnasephile » 02/01/11 12:38 PM

On a tangential note. There is an interesting thread on strip-out, push-through, and Zarrow false shuffles in the MagicTalk archives (including some thoughts from some heavy hitters)

http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~roy/magictalk-wisdom/
User avatar
erdnasephile
 
Posts: 1967
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM

Postby Gordolini » 02/01/11 01:49 PM

Thank you for the link - very interesting.
Gordolini
 
Posts: 111
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Louisville, KY

Postby tegib » 02/02/11 06:43 AM

Thanks everyone for great feedback. I will take Kent's advice and ignore some of comments above.

Second thing is that I hate this username Cardshark, is there a way I can change my username.

Kent,
I love doing magic and I consider myself as a magician but I just love practicing gambling moves and then performing some gambling routines. As for your videos I've seen then before and they were a great inspiration.

Everyone else thanks for commenting
tegib
 
Posts: 9
Joined: 02/14/10 01:27 PM

Postby Richard Kaufman » 02/02/11 12:39 PM

Send me an email at moobooks@verizon.net and let me know the user name you would like.
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine
User avatar
Richard Kaufman
 
Posts: 20369
Joined: 07/18/01 12:00 PM
Location: Washington DC


Return to Close-Up Magic