rising card questions

Discuss products and their reviews in Genii.

Postby Steve Bryant » 03/07/02 06:50 PM

I loved the part of Jamy's article on Al Cohen where Al say you can own 42 wallets and you are convinced the next one will solve your card in wallet problems. I'm exactly that way about haunted decks and rising cards. Three are currently being advertised, but, unlike books which get timely reviews, I rarely see reviews for tricks I'm interested in. The tricks are the Phantom Deck ( a haunted deck gimmick for $50), Dr. Schwartz' Rising Card Miracle (a sort of motorized Devano deck for $95 featuring a "weighted gravity switch"), and the Mikame Jumbo Rising Cards (a motorized houlette for jumbo cards for $130). Anyone familiar with these? My specific questions are why does the haunted deck thingie cost $50 when it still sounds thread operated, and, for the rising cards, are the gimmicks reliable and do the cards rise slowly vs. popping up. These are all relatively spendy items to wind up in the back of a drawer.
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Postby Mike Rose » 03/07/02 07:50 PM

Steve:

I purchased the Dr. Schwartz' Rising Card Miracle about a year ago, and Im very happy with it. Its based on what I believe was a Himber idea (called the "Solid Gold Gimmick," or something like that, because it was made out of gold, someone can probably fill in the details on that). It is not built into the deck, but a separate gimmick that clips onto the back of any deck. I like it because it can be palmed off the deck and the deck handed out. The angles are a little bit of a concern since you have this gimmick hanging on the back of the card box, but it's not that big of a problem. And thats another point, the cards must be in the box when the rising takes place. The cards do rise up slowly, and dont just pop up as you were concerned about. Heres something I discovered that I like about this gimmick, it works just as well on a jumbo deck. As a matter of fact, it works better on a jumbo deck because the size of the deck gives you better coverage for the angles needed to conceal the gimmick. I hope this helps.

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Postby Steve Bryant » 03/07/02 08:00 PM

Thanks, but are we talking about the same thing, or perhaps it has been improved? Check this ad copy from Hank Lee. I don't see how what you described fit with this:

It is totally mechanical. The cards rise while the deck is
in the spectators hands. It truly is a Rising Card Miracle!
The gimmick makes use of a special miniature motor concealed in the deck. What makes this version so different is the special weighted gravity switch that givesyou complete control over the motor! The motor can be switched on and off
simply by changing the position of the deck. Built into a Bicycle poker-size deck,
this is a beautiful piece of work.
Comes complete with deck with built in gimmick and a full routine
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Postby Mike Rose » 03/07/02 08:11 PM

Steve:

It looks like we are not talking about the same thing! However, we are talking about the same person, Dr. Schwartz. I was not aware that he had put out another Rising Deck. The one I have from him was advertised at least two years ago, now that I think about it, because I met and talked to him about it at the Magic Collectors Weekend in Baltimore in April of 2000 (so I had purchased it prior to that date). So anyway, the version I have is as I stated, and Im afraid I cant help you with his new Rising Cards (although I really like the gimmick I have). Sorry for the mix up.

Mike
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Postby Brian Morton » 03/07/02 10:28 PM

Hey, Mike!

You know, with a thread and a safety pin you can do Eugene Burger's Haunted Deck, and then use the money you save to turn 50 more wands for the shop at the renaissance fest! :D

brian :cool:

[ March 07, 2002: Message edited by: Brian Wendell Morton ]
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Postby Pete Biro » 03/11/02 10:09 PM

IMHO there is only ONE Haunted Deck and that is Finn Jon's "esoteric" available from Joe Stevens... Joe can even do it!!! :D

First time I saw it, Finn Jon did it and I HONESTLY WENT LIMP AND FELL OVER BACKWARDS, LUCKILY LANDED ON A SOFT COUCH.

I "nailed" Karrell Fox with it at a trade show in Detroit.

Bryant... next time you are out here, come see me for some rising card stuff you will be fried by.
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Postby Pete McCabe » 03/12/02 12:30 AM

Pete Biro:

I am out here right now. I live out here.

Can I come see you and get fried?


The other Pete
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Postby Steve Bryant » 03/12/02 07:46 AM

Pete,
I'll look forward to that. I think my most unusual here at the house is Dick Zimmerman's rising cards. Plus I built an elaborate version of the Millie Riggs rising cards from Eugene Burger's Spirit Theater.
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Postby Matthew Field » 03/12/02 07:54 AM

There was some discussion a while ago, on Gemini, about an unbelievable version by the wonderfully inventive Angelo Carbone. Geno Munari said he had seen it and that it was the best anywhere. Cost -- about $300, as I recall.

Has anyone heard anything further about this? Geno??

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Postby pduffie » 03/12/02 08:38 AM

Hi Matt

The last I heard about the Carbone Rising Cards (any card named) is that Tenyo had bought it and would be releasing it as a high priced "magician only" product. I think the date given for its release was November 2001, but it never appeared.

Best Wishes

Peter
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Postby Pete Biro » 03/12/02 08:38 AM

Briefly... IMHO :D

The best rising cards...

Martin Mechanical Deck (Frakson and Flosso made careers with these). I still have Jumbo, Poker in Albo collection.

Ken Brooke's Nemo... fun and baffling

Paul Fox

Howard Bamman made Devano decks (I have jumbo and poker).

Sleeper: Albenice (cards in houlette on ribbons held by mage and spec).

Ron Wilson/Pat Hennessy "electronic" but not radio controlled.

NO GOOD... ALL RADIO CONTROLLED... TOO "IFFY"

Card Fountain (Charlie Miller threading with Thornton windlass reel).

Biro electric jumbo Devano... sort of... Fred Kaps had and used. Was a motor inside a jumbo deck with a battery and a soda straw filled with oil and a small magnet that floated and contacted a reed switch to start the movmement with a delay.

Someone sold a $1.00 mss with a cat gut loop so you could rise a card from a borrowed deck.... Larry Jenning's after seeing me do it pulled me aside and said "Don't tip that, it's what I use!"

I always opened my convention close up sets with it, borrowing a deck and with card risen would hand deck back...

Kundulini can be killer (similar to above but out of magician's hands...)

There are more, but I gotta go to office... bye for now... ;)
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Postby Pete Biro » 03/12/02 08:40 AM

Forgot my one, the Biro/Severn impromptu, Billy McComb uses it... :mad:
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Postby Guest » 03/12/02 09:25 AM

Pete, where can I find your impromptu version described?

Robin
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Postby Michael Edwards » 03/12/02 09:53 AM

Gee, Pete, I thought half the fun in magic was sweating whether my Anverdi rising card apparatus was going to work :D But it's not just electronics that can fail. I've busted threads on both the Ken Brooke Nemo and even Paul Fox rigs. On the other hand, the electronic card rise Marcelo Contento put out was VERY reliable.

One now seldom used -- but very effective --approach was the Thayer Rising Card Tray. Hard to find these days, but very deceptive. Another fooler: Val Evans' card rise.

My personal favorite in rising card apparatus: the Neyhart houlette. The description in Greater Magic is pretty accurate except I've never heard of one that worked reliably. The mechanisms are very sensitive and the cards very delicate. In fact, I've never been able to get mine to work well enough to risk performance, even with Carl Williams and Nick Ruggiero's help...but it's a fascinating bit of craftsmaship nonetheless.

Michael Edwards

[ March 12, 2002: Message edited by: Michael Edwards ]
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Postby Pete McCabe » 03/12/02 11:26 AM

Henry Evans did a wonderful rising card in the close-up room at the Castle recently (which I think means it's in his FISM act).

It looked very much like Kundalini Rising, until he had the spectator remove the risen card from the box and examine it, then remove the deck and examine it, then examine the box!
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Postby Pete Biro » 03/12/02 07:15 PM

I believe the Severn/Biro impromptu rising card is in Tarbell 7.

However, the quick explanation is:

You can use a level deck or a Svengali (I prefer the latter). With the no gaffe you need to do the Liepzig card stab handling to set the deck.

Card chosen, deck bent for stab, or just use Svengali (I just remembered it is in Daryl's tapes on card trick endings, forget which of the 564 volumes!!! :D )...

Anyway, you place the deck into a letter envelope (not the big no 10 kind), seal it, then you poke a pencil into the side ala card stab... the pencil has a rubber band around it which you keep hidden. It acts as a friction wheel...

You then tear off part of the envelope and hold the package by the pencil... shaking it a bit (actually secretly rotating) a card rises... it is wrong card... shake again, reverse action, card goes back down and the correct one comes up.

Inspiration was a jumbo deck in huge metal case from supreme years ago with a wand with a wheel on it and the case hung on the wand.

Clear? As mud, right... tsk tsk... :cool:
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Postby Paul Green » 03/12/02 09:53 PM

An additional 3 cents!

I remember seeing Biro do his Rising Cards for the first time at a convention in Hollywood. Busted everyone!

I had, and used Ron Wilson/Pat Hennessey Rising Cards for years. Ron and Pat were amazed that I never replaced the batteries.

The Marcello Contento Rising Cards is what I use today. It has never failed me! It is R/C. I love the ability to make the wrong card rise, descend, and then the correct card rises.

The Gary Plants Rising Cards is also great in a close-up situation. This gets them every time.

Then there is Earl Nelson, performing "On the Up and Up" with a regular deck of cards. I can dream, can't I.

Regards,

Paul Green :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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Postby pduffie » 03/13/02 03:26 AM

Hi Pete

"Inspiration was a jumbo deck in huge metal case from supreme years ago with a wand with a wheel on it and the case hung on the wand."

I believe this was the Ken Bowell (Kentare guy) Rising Card.

I've used your Severn/Biro method - I didn't know it was yours at the time. I used a rubber pencil that I got from a joke shop! I just didn't tell the audience it was rubber...

Best Wishes

Peter
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Postby Pete Biro » 03/13/02 08:15 AM

Ken Bowell... aha, a name from the past... some guys on ebay have been erroneously calling a KNOCK OFF - made in India - version as Ken Brooke... cuz of the KB in the name of the original.

Did Bowell also create Squircle? One of my favorite, forgotten, paper tears.
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Postby Guest » 03/13/02 08:35 AM

Hi Pete, thanks for taking the trouble to describe the method. Now I do remember it and have used it and liked it. Leave it to my pal Peter D. to come up with surreptiously using a rubber pencil. Now someone will develop a special card with a rubber back,which is forced, then your method used and sell it for $50. They'll explain that the rubber back "makes it sure-fire."
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Postby pduffie » 03/13/02 08:49 AM

Yes, Squircle was Ken Bowell.

Gordon Bruce and I were at a convention back in the 1970's. We were in the bar - it had just opened and there was only one other person there. This guy started talking to us about nothing in particular, then after a while he brought out 2 dice and did a lovely simple routine that fooled both of us.

We asked him who he was, and he said, "You won't know me, my name's Ken Bowell." That was the first, and last, time I ever saw him at a convention.

Best Wishes

Peter
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Postby Pete Biro » 03/13/02 08:50 AM

someone who 'didn't get it at all' marketed a version with a crank... the whole idea is to NOT appear to be rotating the pencil... but a crank? Gimme a break... duh... :D :rolleyes:
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Postby pduffie » 03/13/02 08:57 AM

I think the crank version was first published by Rick Johnsson.
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Postby Jeff Haas » 03/13/02 06:02 PM

I think there are some pens available today that have rubber grips or coverings on them, designed to make them feel more comfortable when you write with them. If one of these worked, there would be no need to use a concealed rubber band.

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Postby Charlie Chang » 03/19/02 01:49 AM

If you do own the crank version, here is a handling you might consider:

Prepare for "On the up and up" (the card rise with a normal deck that I always think of as a Fred Robinson idea - Peter Duffie might be able to throw some light on that).

The deck is in your left hand and ready for the rise. With the right hand, insert the crank behind the jogged card, inserting it on the right long edge (opposite to the jog). the closer you get the crank tot he jogged card the better. Turn the crank until a random card has risen about half it's length.

It's not their card. Remove the crank and use it as a wand as you perform the sleight of hand card rise to instantly change the card sticking out of the deck.
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Postby pduffie » 03/19/02 04:12 AM

The popular version of this Rising Card mentioned by Paul is Eric Mason's "Arise Comrades,"(Pabular Vol.1 no.10), a variation on Fred Robinon's "Ambitious Riser
(Pabular Vol.1 no.8)." Fred's method used both hands, with the deck resting on the back of the right fingers, which then tapped the bottom of the deck as the card rose upwards. Eric made is single-handed. There is a bigger difference than you might think between the methods.

Best Wishes

Peter
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Postby pduffie » 03/19/02 04:17 AM

The final part of the above message should read (editing facility not working!):

"There is a bigger difference between the two techniques than you might think. But the principle remains Fred Robinson's."
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Postby Matthew Field » 03/19/02 07:25 AM

In addiiton to Peter's and Paul's comments (I wish my name were Mary!) "On the Up and Up" was Ken Krenzel and Richard Kaufman's handling of the impromptu rising card, issued as a booklet.

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Postby Charlie Chang » 03/19/02 07:47 AM

Matt,
I thought that, at weekends, your name WAS Mary....
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Postby Pete Biro » 03/19/02 08:47 AM

OK fun seekers... who's was the use of a small rubber ball hidden behind the deck? I first saw Dingle do this one.

BTW--Fred Robinson, knowing I collected Risings, made a small wooden box that held a deck, open at the top. A thread with a weighted little hook was lowered (secretly) into the box behind the deck (the box had some grooves and various little cutouts) and it would hook and grab the rear card.

You would "lift" it out via the thread so it appeared to rise... etc. etc. etc.
:D
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Postby Bill Mullins » 03/19/02 09:07 AM

Originally posted by Pete Biro:
OK fun seekers... who's was the use of a small rubber ball hidden behind the deck? I first saw Dingle do this one.


JOhn Cornelius has a rubber ball method to rise a card in a glass.

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Postby pduffie » 03/19/02 09:27 AM

The ball method for a card rise was first published in Pallbearers - David Drake, I think.

Best Wishes

Peter
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Postby Matthew Field » 03/19/02 12:08 PM

One other rising card, but it's not a wallet -- I bought one from Joe Stevens, an "upside Down" card rise. It's a wooden box into which a deck (stripper) just fits. There's a secret panel along one edge that traps the selection while the other cards fall from the box.

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Postby Steve Bryant » 03/19/02 12:12 PM

Much cheaper and flashier is Don Alan's idea: have a card returned (reversed) to a stripper deck. Wrap the thing and tie it off with flash string. Hold the deck by the protruding edges and light the string. All will fall but the selected card.

Anybody seen the items in the original question? The haunted deck is now a full page ad in Genii.
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Postby Michael Edwards » 03/19/02 01:00 PM

Originally posted by Matthew Field:
One other rising card, but it's not a wallet -- I bought one from Joe Stevens, an "upside Down" card rise. It's a wooden box into which a deck (stripper) just fits. There's a secret panel along one edge that traps the selection while the other cards fall from the box.

Matt Field


Of course, there was also Merv Taylor's flash houlette! The principle is the same, but utilized a carefully tapered clear lucite houlette.

[ March 19, 2002: Message edited by: Michael Edwards ]
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Postby Bill Duncan » 03/19/02 11:53 PM

Originally posted by Pete Biro:
OK fun seekers... who's was the use of a small rubber ball hidden behind the deck? I first saw Dingle do this one.


RK credits David Foote (aka David Black) with the concept in "The Complete Works Of Derek Dingle"

Anyone remember Rick Johnsson's "Poor Man's Devano"?
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Postby Guest » 03/21/02 06:28 PM

Were would be a good starting point in looking all these different methods. I know that there isn't one book that tell about all the different methods!
Just curious, working on a new project.
Thanks
Andy
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Postby Ben Harris » 03/24/02 04:17 PM

Hi everyone,

I would be extremely appreciative of any feedback you guys may have on the "UpSide Rising Card" I've published in the current (April 2002) Genii.

By taking the basic principle as taught (in itself, an extrapolation of a Mike Bornstein idea) and refining it, you can make any named card rise from the cased deck. All is examinable, and, you can use a borrowed deck.

Looking forward to your comments, ideas, etc.

Cheers

Ben Harris
Creator of the famous "Floating Match On Card" illusion.
WOWBOUND.COM - INSTANT DOWNLOADS
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Postby Pete Biro » 03/24/02 04:59 PM

Claude Isbeque AKA Klingsor published (in French, but the illustrations are all you really need) a H U G E volumnuous book on rising card methods. It is encyclopedic in nature (altho there were a number of ways created after its publication).

It is one of the handfull of books I would not care to lose.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 03/24/02 08:22 PM

The only thing I know about Klingsor is that he ripped off Ton Onosaka's version of the Diminishing Cards sold by Magic Land and has been pirating them for years: he even uses the same instruction sheet, but merely cut off the original credits!
Now: Dr. Schwartz just send me (Genii, actually) one of his card rise gimmicks. It looks exactly like the Himber Solid "Gold" Gimmick (not gold at all). A small motor that can hang off the back of a deck or cardcase and push up the rear card. The version that was sent to us had some cards glued together with a big cutout so the gimmick could rise a card that was near the center of the deck. I know that Dr. Schwartz has been made aware (at least a year ago) of the fact that this thing is Himber's, yet Himber's name is not mentioned anywhere in the instructions. I assume that David Oliver will deal with this in his review.
Next, when McBride's "Kundalini Rising" came out there was a lot of talk that it was the same thing as David Britland's "Angel Card Rise" which had come out at least a year earlier. Perhaps someone can clarify if this is true.
Next, Angelo Carbone's idea is quite wonderful, but extremely difficult to do. Better than the "Ariston Card Rise" which came out of South America a few years ago (which in and of itself was quite good). The problem with Angelo's is that it must be hand made and takes forever.
Next, I have NEVER seen a Neyhart Houlette work 100% of the time. I have seen private correspondance from Carl Jones when I was working on Greater Magic to the effect that he was dismayed that he couldn't get the Neyhart he owned to work all the time--and it was NEW.
Next, the best Rising Card is, of course, Dr. Hooker's, and shame on all of you for not mentioning it. Those who witnessed this will never forget it.
Another superb method that has not been mentioned is Joseffy's version, which Tad Ware has restored and performed at the Yankee Collector.
There is a distinction between "kinds" of Rising Cards: those where a card is chosen, replaced, and then it rises, as opposed to the sort where ANY card is named and it rises.
Of the in-the-hands variety where any card is named, if the Neyhart houlette worked it would be great because anyone could do it, but it doesn't. The method by Carbone is very difficult even though heavily gimmicked. There is an ungimmicked method to do this by John Cornelius: any card named rises. It has not been published, but my assumption is that it will be in his new book from L&L. It uses a memorized stack and a method not unlike the Eric Mason handling where a finger pushes an angled card up.
Finally, I can't tell you how many times I've done "On the Up and Up" for magicians and watched their eyeballs pop when the deck was put into their hands at the end and there was no Devano gimmick. I've always regretted that Eric Mason didn't get proper credit for his version of the Fred Robinson move in that booklet: perhaps I'll print the routine in Genii with the proper credits. The booklet has been out of print for 15 years!
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