Ron Bauer

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Postby Tim Trono » 07/30/02 10:39 PM

Just letting you know that the Ron Bauer Private Studies web site is at:www.thinklikeaconjurer.com I've always really enjoyed this series and if you have not purchased these booklets you should. I believe they have some new ones coming out soon.

Tim Trono
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Postby Guest » 07/31/02 07:52 AM

The reason I haven't bought these yet, is because they are destined to come out in bound form for a fraction of the cost. In fact, that's the reason I don't buy a lot of things. Perhaps I'm missing out. But perhaps with all my other stuff, I already have plenty to work on! So Tim, can't Murphy's make it happen?
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Postby Tim Trono » 07/31/02 09:09 AM

Hi John. Actually, Murphy's does not really have anything to do with these though we do carry them. One problem with holding off is that it could be quite some time, if ever, that they are sold in a bound format. I know Ron is not in it for the money so I don't know if he will ever go that route. I personally think that for $10 per trick it's a bargain - each item has all of the details to really make these USABLE show pieces, items that could potentially go in your performing repertoire for years to come. Some of the booklets even come with some nice interesting props. Although I absolutely understand and appreciate your stance, I find it interesting (I similarly found the whole Ultimate Three Fly controversy as far as pricing interesting) - for me personally, if I believe it is a piece I will use, I don't care if it comes as a book, booklet, trick, video, etc. I try to look at what the value will be for me if I USE the material and then compare it to the cost of the item. Even with a more expensive item like Ultimate Three Fly I consider $300 reasonable if I use it as I will have it and use it for many many years to come. So with the Bauer series I consider $10 a bargain - simply based on the amount of time, effort, and thought that went into each piece and then on top of that there's simply some darn good. Ron has not released all of the booklets and I imagine it may take a while to release the rest of them as I know a considerable amount of time must go into each one. I am anxious to see what is coming out next and put in an inquiry with Ron about this. I'll let you know when I find out what is coming up next.

Tim Trono
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Postby Tim Trono » 07/31/02 09:12 AM

PS...

John, I also respect that you are concentrating on the material you are already working on. It's so easy to just buy and buy and never really focus. Thus it's commendable you ARE focusing.

Tim
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Postby Guest » 07/31/02 11:01 AM

I saw someone perform Paul Chosse's "Bar Bill Stunt" (which is one of the series highlights) and it was wonderful. Very clever.
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Postby Guest » 08/01/02 01:06 AM

Tim,

Thanks for the tip. Which items would you recommend getting first for a close-up worker. I am very interested in topological card and coin/bills effects. Of course I always enjoy some insights in magic theory (that's why I really appreciate the works of Ortiz and Bannon).
Any tips?

PS: The descriptions of the tricks on the booklets is rather terse!
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Postby Tim Trono » 08/01/02 07:57 AM

The Paul Chosse "Bar Bill Stunt" that Mark mentions is excellent and a good place to start. Also consider "Sudden Death Gypsy Curse" (presentation/handling for Gypsy Curse Card effect) or "Hornswoggled Again!" (a nice version/script on the classic Hornswoggled bill effect). Hope that helps.

Tim
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Postby Doomo » 08/01/02 03:41 PM

Actually, I would rather you didn't try the Hornswoggled Again manuscript... I do it and always have it around... So I would have to suggest you try something else...
RFA Productions yeah... It is cool stuff.

www.rfaproductions.com
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Postby Randy DiMarco » 08/02/02 05:42 AM

I would suggest getting them all. Even if you don't perform the routines you will learn much about the performance of magic. BTW - I currently perform 2 of the routines and am working on a third.
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Postby Guest » 08/09/02 06:38 AM

I will order a couple of scripts to check them out (thanks to everybody for the tips).

Just a remark. I was checking out the Sudden Death Gipsy Curse excerpts on the site. This trick (also in Ron's patter) pits you as the loser. Ortiz in Strong Magic thinks that this weakens the magic. I kind of agree with him. What do you all think?

Thanks
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Postby Doomo » 08/09/02 09:55 AM

I disagree in this case... The over all routine is that you are a loser. The audience finds this amusing. The "normal " magi patter theme is a challenge type. This works because it goes against the norm for how the audience perceives you...
RFA Productions yeah... It is cool stuff.

www.rfaproductions.com
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Postby amakar » 08/14/02 02:46 PM

Hi all -

I am a HUGE fan of the Private Study series.
What I like about the series is it shows you how to get GREAT reactions consistently. The RBPS (RB Private Studies) shows you how to be entertaining from a theatre perspective rather than a show and tell perspective.

I haven't found ANYTHING else in magic that combines theater with magic in such a way that truly incorporates drama..instead of show and tell. (Do you ever wonder why magician's are the only one's who carry sponge balls? Why?)

As for the Sudden Death Gypsy Curse, the story explains how your family has been cursed due to your great-great-great-great-grand uncle's folly.
You've been cursed with the Loser's Curse...meaning you can't win anytime you try to swindle somebody.

This presentation sets you up perfectly to present the Cursed Ring (Lesson 8)...not to mention a reason to dust off your Gypsy Curse cards.

If you're looking for great reactions that you enjoy performing and the audience enjoys even more, check out these books. I perform 8 out of the 10 currently available plus a few more effects from the original series. Every single one of them gets the reaction you've always wanted.

Andy
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Postby Guest » 08/23/02 01:41 PM

Tim,
Ugh! After reading what you wrote here, and on some other boards, and the comments from a few others, I have broken down and ordered a full set. I'm supposed to be a minimalist. These look too good to pass up though. And I like the unique approach Ron is taking, focusing on more important matters than the handling. Anyway, I look forward to letting everyone know what I really think, once my set arrives. I didn't realize that over half the set has yet to be completed. But it will give me time to digest the others. It seems everyone involved in their production, with the customer service, website, production values, etc, is doing as much as they possibly can to make everyone happy. (I mean, that return policy if you have an old set?!) Anyway, thanks for steering me in the right direction, Tim. If I don't like them, I'm going to hit you over the head with my dusty copy of CARD CRAFT!
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Postby Tim Trono » 08/25/02 08:57 AM

Hi John. I think you'll be very happy with them. I actually just brought them with me on a vacation as reading material while at the beach. I'm anxious to hear your thoughts after you get a chance to go through them. They are fun reading as well. Enjoy.

Tim Trono
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Postby Bill Duncan » 08/25/02 11:04 AM

I keep thinking about something Tom Stone asked me during his recent visit to Seattle; "what problem does it solve"? We were talking about my handling of Re-Set but the question is a valid one for any "reimagining".

I used to own (and wore out) the original Gypsy Curse from E&W and I have the Dingle book and I don't recall any problems that needed solving...

I've heard some good things about Mr. Bauer over the years but I've never seen him work. How does his "Gypsy Curse" or "Hornswoggled" improve the standard handlings? Or is it the case that you are paying for his script?

Please don't feel the need to rush to Mr. Bauer's defense here. I'm not trying to imply criticism.
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Postby Tim Trono » 08/25/02 11:55 AM

Hi Bill. You certainly raise a valid point. I can't tell you how many items I see where there IS no reason as there is essentially no change. In this case, what Ron Bauer brings to the table is (unfortunately) what I initially overlooked. Ron goes into great detail on the framing and thoughts and script behind these items so that they are not merely "tricks" but instead they are VERY well worked out "show pieces". You are absolutely correct that most of these items have been out there but as they are, they are simply tricks that are often overlooked. Ron has really made them something special. I had overlooked some of these classic effects so when I first got the series I loved some of the "tricks" that I had long forgotten about. Then recently I got a new addition to the series and it hit me what I had overlooked so I went back through the series. Anyway, there are no revolutionary new techniques or effects. Ron does bring up some VERY nice handling points based on years of using these. However, more importantly, and to the root of your question it is WHAT he DOES with the pieces. Ron has a strong directing and theater background so he basically sits in and acts as your director through these booklets. Also, I am not personally particularly a fan of long winded stories in magic effects. So when I say he gives the items some framework he has included wonderful scripts but they are by no means long winded stories. In fact, I know of a few restaurant magicians besides myself who use these pieces in their work. And as you know, most restaurant magic has to be pretty succinct and strong. I hope that answers your question as you certainly do raise an interesting question and I really like what you quoted from Tom Stone. I think that is a question MORE people should ask before releasing an item. It would be nice to see more REALLY well work out show pieces instead of just trick after trick.

Tim
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Postby Bill Duncan » 08/25/02 07:33 PM


...they are not merely "tricks" but instead they are VERY well worked out "show pieces".
Tim,
Thanks for the review. It looks like I'm just gonna have to break down and get a couple...

;)
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Postby amakar » 08/29/02 07:04 PM

Hi Bill -

I've got some additional information regarding these two effects:

Originally posted by Bill Duncan:

I've heard some good things about Mr. Bauer over the years but I've never seen him work. How does his "Gypsy Curse" or "Hornswoggled" improve the standard handlings? Or is it the case that you are paying for his script?
Both of these routines follow a similar handling to the original effects. However, the technique/handling/ or where an Elmsley count appears isn't as important as the overall audience reaction.

The Gypsy Curse and the Hornswoggled Again are all premise based that have a PAYOFF in the end.
Magic is flooded with magic tricks that are just SHOW and TELL. The audience sees the trick, thinks its kinda neat, and then moves on to their next thought.

Do you ever see any tricks that are just tricks and don't go anywhere? (Any matrix, coins across, and pick a card tricks can fall into this category)

The Gypsy Curse allows you to apply your own subtext to the character who has the bad luck curse because of his ancestor's folly. It also sets you up to perform the Cursed Ring since there is a tie in between two effects.

In the Stars of Magic version of Hornswoggled the trick just ends with you making more money (10% more). There really isn't a payoff or a contrasting event that gets a laugh out of the audience. In Hornswoggled Again you demonstrate how a person is hornswoggled, demonstrate your fool-proof method to prevent being hornswoggled, only to be Hornswoggled Again by your participant.

These scripts build a series of funny offbeat momments that have a larger impact on your audience...plus it is a lot of fun for you to perform.

I just got done reading Butch, Ringo and the Sheep. If you ever passed on the Theives and Sheep trick, because you thought it was too simple or just BLAH...then check out Butch and Ringo.

This stuff is gold.

Andy
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Postby Guest » 09/06/02 08:53 PM

I have to say I've bought a couple of these, not so much for the routine, but because they teach a great lesson in how to write a script/"patter". Someone mentioned earlier that they didn't like tricks w/ long stories. I agree to a point. I don't like long stories if they AREN'T ENTERTAINING! I once saw Scotty York hold an audience spellbound with a story about Arthur Conan Doyle and Houdini, then turn and do another long story right after. The audience loved it! The reason? He was unbelievably interesting. Not one part of the story or routine was a waste of the spectators' collective time.
I think that's what Ron is trying to get across here. I've learned quite a bit from the two I bought and am working up what I hope to be a great close up show (though not with the routines I bought, only with my own, but using the knowledge I gained).
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Postby amakar » 09/07/02 05:08 AM

Originally posted by Rick Green:
I've learned quite a bit from the two I bought and am working up what I hope to be a great close up show (though not with the routines I bought, only with my own, but using the knowledge I gained).
Rick - Why not use the routines you bought? They were designed for that exact purpose.

Over the past 3 years studying this material, I've learned a number of things.
So many magicians walk around talking about "My Routine...and Be Original". Approxmiately 90% of all the material that is "My Routine" stuff has its origins in Greater Magic or Tarbell. Its not a new "original" effect if you make a penny grow into a jumbo coin at the end of a dime-penny effect. Its still a dime and penny effect.

What I found interesting in the Private Studies is the intro on the inside front cover. So many magicians keep saying "Be Original" and then sell you their exact routine. However, very few of us are trained to write, direct, and act to make a series of effects entertaining for an audience.
If you compare any one of these tricks against any other product on the market, there are VAST differences in the presentation.

I don't bother with being "Original". Since I don't have the training, being "original" usually produces a medicore effect. What I've learned from the series is actors don't strive to be original. They mimic other performers to achieve the correct affect.

I've had a lot of success simply taking the performance scripts in the Private Studies and presenting them. I just got back from a trip in New Orleans and the material received great reactions!

Good luck with your close-up show. Feel free to present those scripts as they are written. That's what actors do. You'll be guaranteed to get great reactions!

Andy
amakar@yahoo.com
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Postby Guest » 09/07/02 09:38 AM

Andy,
I do agree that since I bought the routine I have the right to use it since I bought it. The problem is, what if it doesn't fit my personality? My perfomance should be an extension/expression of who I am, not who I can immitate. Don't get me wrong. I have found some routines that I've bought that fit me perfectly (for instance, Mike Close's Ring Fright from his video). I use this in my stand-up show, and it fits very well with me.
In my close-up show, I try to do more of a story-telling style that is more closely related to Eugene Burger and some of Scotty York's stuff. I try to do stories that are very interesting and involve the audience. When I do the Gypsy's Curse (by the way, if you're going to do that routine, buy the cards that Kevin Kelly makes...they're swwweeeett!), I tell the story of my great grandfather, a former magician from Scotland who emigrated to America, and used his skills in magic to teach a cheater a lesson. I found the people like to identify better with the guy who was the hero more than with the great grandson of the guy who was the cheat.
I am a firm believer that magic is my chance to share part of me with someone, not share part of someone else with them (though sometimes I find myself in someone else's work).
Thanks for the input, Andy.
Rick
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Postby amakar » 09/11/02 08:28 AM

Hi Rick

Since you brought it up, I will give you the courtesy of a reply...
After reading your email very carefully, I came to the conclusion that you
didn't really understand what I was getting at.

I'm not trying to talk you into anything, nor criticize whatever it is you choose to do with your
performances or career. I am critical, though, of the arguments you
posed. "I do agree that since I bought the routine I have the right to use it
since I bought it." doesn't seem to have anything to do with your next comment:
"The problem is, what if it doesn't fit my personality?"
How do those go together?

Next, you pointed out that you believe: "My perfomance should be an
extension/expression of who I am, not who I can immitate." Then you
described several people you choose to imitate because you've decided that they
fit your personality??? "Don't get me wrong. I have found some routines
that I've bought that fit me perfectly (for instance, Mike Close's Ring Fright
from his video). I use this in my stand-up show, and it fits very well with me.
In my close-up show, I try to do more of a story-telling style that is more
closely related to Eugene Burger and some of Scotty York's stuff." You also
say: "I try to do stories that are very interesting and involve the audience."
I can't help but get the feeling that you are implying that I don't??

Following those remarks, you describe your ideas: "When I do the
Gypsy's Curse (by the way, if you're going to do that routine, buy the cards
that Kevin Kelly makes...they're swwweeeett!), I tell the story of my great
grandfather, a former magician from Scotland who emigrated to America,
and used his skills in magic to teach a cheater a lesson."
Okay.

But, you follow up with: "I found the people like to identify
better with the guy who was the hero more than with the great grandson of the
guy who was the cheat." What evidence do you have to support this empirical
contention? (By the way, I think your heroism blinded you to the moral
element of Ron Bauer's version: crime does not pay! It could be taken
from your approach that it's okay to cheat if you presume you're in the
right! After all, that guy was a cheater. This could lead to stealing bread
for his starving family!... Sorry, I recently saw "Les Miserables.")
Finally, you pontificate: "I am a firm believer that magic is my chance
to share part of me with someone, not share part of someone else with them
(though sometimes I find myself in someone else's work)." What in the
world does this mean? Is it advice? Have you been going to too many magic
lectures?

Possibly, I'm too insensitive to get it, but I have a feeling that you
imitate other performers, something that I don't advocate at all.
Imitation in the theater is a completely different concept.
Thanks for the input.

Andy
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Postby Guest » 09/11/02 09:00 AM

I have just one question...what, if anything, did I say the deserved the last post? All I did was share, very honestly I thought, my view and opinion. I wasn't looking to start an argument, and if you'll read my post again, you'll see I was just stating ideas and views..nothing else.

Amakar, you make the statement in your post that I make "the argument". I never made an argument, I only stated a personal view.

If anyone else thinks that what I said warranted the response I received, please tell me because I'm obviously missing something here.
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Postby amakar » 09/11/02 10:43 AM

Green...
Here is the answer to your plea for help. I'm not attacking you! If you insight an "argument" (which can be defined as one or more reasons put forward in support of an opposing point of view), you shouldn't be offended if your target defends himself. Read my response again.

I only replied to your remarks, and quoted each with no omissions. You effectively said, "...as opposed to Andy (who has become Amakar) who sees things not as good and kindly and sensitively as do I."

I think I have a right to reply. Keep in mind, Rick (if I may be so familiar and friendly), that I judged that you deserved the courtesy of a reply. If I would have dismissed your arguments as worthless, I would have ignored you.

Isn't this forum about a variety of viewpoints? Or, do we just all go to the magic conventions, see the same lectures, "creatively" copy the same videos and books? In the end, the answers to these questions will determine how the public evaluates magicians. But, that's just an opinion, and you're free to make your own. (I think...)

Andy
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Postby Guest » 09/11/02 11:40 AM

I went back and reread the comments and I probably took it as a personal attack, and I apologize for having become offended. I realize that we've never met (that I know of) and you were only making observations, though some of them were way off, but they were observations none the less, and you did have every right to make them.
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Postby amakar » 09/11/02 12:01 PM

No problem Rick.

Often in these forums it is difficult to understand the context behind the words since we're writing...and not talking.

The point of these forums is to hopefully invoke thoughtful discussions that may push people out of their comfort zones.

Do you see the same trend in magic where people recycle the same ideas and present them as "new" and "original"? Then these same guys tell us to don't copy their routine, but be original...but buy the trick.

It becomes more frustrating when people ask you for your opinion, you tell them what you think, and then they take offense because you didn't go along with the other sheep and say how great it was. I have a number of stories at local magic clubs and other organizations where this happens again and again.

Over the past few years, I've learned it doesn't further our craft by saying a trick is good...only so you'll say my trick was good too.
That is no way to improve, learn or move forward.

The way we present our Art determines how the public evaluates magicians. There was a time when Magic had prestige and required diligent study. Now anyone can be a magician. Ugh!

Andy
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Postby Guest » 09/11/02 12:12 PM

I guess the one thing I wanted to impart in my first post was that I have my influences, and to those who know, those influences can be seen. However, when I perform for an audience, I want them to see ME performing and not just me regurgitating what I've seen others do.

I have several routines that I perform that I do word for word (or at least idea for idea) the way I bought it. The only reason, though, is that the original patter for the routine was something that fit me, and also if I did it for, say, my wife, she would be able to say, "I could see you saying that".

Does that make sense? (This is one of those cases where you know what you mean, but does everyone else know what you mean.)
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Postby Guest » 09/11/02 12:17 PM

I just remembered what the original thread was about.
Go buy the Ron Bauer series, or at least the ones that stand out to you that you'd like to perform. I've had a few of them, and have looked through others that I didn't buy, but all are very top-notch commercial routines.
Ron has done the magic community a great service by putting these out.
:p
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Postby Bill Mullins » 09/12/02 03:26 PM

I recently got to meet Rick for the first time,
and see him perform. (at the recent Nashville Festival of Magic). He has a unique personality on stage, and his act is like none I've ever seen.

You may take issue with his Genii Forum posts, but
don't for a minute believe he isn't a heck of a performer.

Bill Mullins
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