Expert Card Technique and Erdnase

A place where beginners can participate, ask questions, and post their views. However, beginners typically ask a lot of questions about sources, tricks, books, and so on. In fact, all magicians are interested (or should be) in the provenance of tricks, ideas, and related matters. This department will service these needs.

Postby Tristan Angeles » 01/11/11 11:42 AM

Hello, I have been reading a lot of posts from magic cafe and other forums lately regarding these books. So which of the two books should be studied first? Ive read post that said Erdnase first before ECT, and some the other way around.

How should I approach the study of these books( or which sleights/tricks should I get into first). I just finished RRTCM by the way, and am getting the books suggested by Mr.Jason England on his theory 11 vid.

Thanks!
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 01/11/11 12:08 PM

The books have completely different tone and focus. EACT (erdnase) purports to be a graduate level course on deception while Huggard and Braue's ECT is a rather straight forward book of tricks, a survey of what Vernon, Miller and others were doing at the time - though sometimes the explainations are missing details as the book was not done with full cooperation of the folks whose works were included.
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Postby erdnasephile » 01/11/11 01:24 PM

Hi, Tristan:

Good question--and I'm pleased you are focusing on books.

I would study Erdnase prior to ECT to continue to get grounded in solid technique before sifting through ECT.

However, may I respectfully suggest an alterative course? If you've just finished (and hopefully enjoyed) RRTCM, I would suggest continuing your studies with the Card College series. It has a similar construct to RRTCM, but it takes you further. Loryane's CUCM would be an excellent concurrent read as well.

That strategy would allow you begin using your new skills to perform great routines for real folks. After you've completed those volumes, then hit Erdnase.

IMHO, with Erdnase, the more prior knowledge you bring to it, the more able you are to read between the lines and squeeze out the most value from it.
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Postby Tristan Angeles » 01/11/11 08:03 PM

Hello Erdnasephile

I'm also planning to get the Card College books( should I get all 5 volumes) when I have the money to spend, but right now these three books are whats available to me.

When you mean studying these books do you mean learning/mastering all the sleights within? I skimmed through ECT and there are so many variations of moves there and I don't think I can use them all( Should I study them in order like RRTCM). What sleights should be focused on first? Oh btw I read through Erdnase once just to get a feel for the material and tried all the things inside but have not really studied the book.

Thanks a lot
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Postby erdnasephile » 01/11/11 11:37 PM

Tristan:

1. Yes, eventually you will want to get all 5 volumes of Card College, but you don't need them all at once.

2. In your particular situation, I would strive to master (i.e. be able to perform in an entertaining way for strangers) the majority of the material in RRTCM before studying Erdnase or ECT. The reason I say this is that IMHO it is better to learn to use sleights in the context of an actual effect.

For instance, it does you no good to have the world's fastest pass if every time you do it you "frame" the action for the audience. You must know how to get into and out of a move without tipping the audience that you are doing something sneaky. The best way to do that is to learn to do the sleight in the flow of an actual routine, coordinated with an entertaining presentation and misdirection. Again: disembodied sleights are cool for impressing your magic buddies, but may not fly in the real world.

To me, Erdnase is stronger in the techinical side of things than in the magic routines. ECT has some good routines, but again, it is techinique focused.

3. Have you considered going the ebook route? This may help you afford some books of routines that will complement what you are learning in RRTCM. For example: http://www.harryloraynemagic.com/newmagicbooks.html will get you Close-Up Card Magic (a book full of amazingly strong routines) for $15.75 US). I believe Card College also exists in ebook for at Lybrary.com

4. In summary, if you haven't mastered the stuff in RRTCM, keep working on that (there's enough there to keep you busy for a long time), then augment with a book of great effects when you get the cash.
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Postby Tristan Angeles » 01/13/11 08:25 PM

Thanks!

I got Harry Lorayne's Close Up Card Magic because of your recommendation, and after reading a few reviews about it. It looks great and I can't wait for the mailman to deliver it,
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Postby NickShear » 09/24/11 05:03 PM

I started with Expert Card Technique and quickly moved on to study Lennart Green's material and techniques.

Some of Green's best work is on his first DVD, which was originally offered in VHS. He has a lot of great thoughts on sleights which open up new ways of accomplishing great effects.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 09/24/11 05:26 PM

Several of my books will teach you great sleights and great tricks:
1. Complete Works of Derek Dingle
2. Jennings '67
3. Secrets of Brother John Hamman

You don't need to learn many versions of each sleight when you're starting out, but you'll want to develop a larger repertoire of "tools" later on.

Learn:
1. One good Double Lift
2. The Double Undercut
3. One good Force
4. One good Palm from both the top and bottom of the deck
5. One good false count: The Elmsley Count

That's to start.
Then you need to learn the Pass, Top Change, Side Steal, and so on.
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine
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