Dental Dam

Discuss the views of your favorite Genii columnists.

Postby Philippe Noël » 10/31/01 01:35 PM

Dear Richard,

In January's issue of Genii,you named "Dental Dam" among the best tricks of the XXies century. What kind of trick is it?
Best regards,

Philippe Nol
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Postby Matthew Field » 10/31/01 02:11 PM

This is Lubor Fiedler's wonder in which a piece of thin rubber/latex (the Dental Dam material) is stretched over the mouth of a glass and held in place with a rubber band.

Several coins are placed on the rubber and the spectator chooses one (forced). The magician or the spectator pushes down on the coin and, with a pop, it penetrates the rubber and falls into the glass.

All may be examined. Everyone looks for a hole in the rubber, but there is none.

OK, I may have fudged a bit on the set-up, but that's what the spectators will remember.

Lubor Fiedler is a genius.

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Postby Bill Duncan » 10/31/01 07:38 PM

Anyone remember the marketed trick that used surgical gloves to do an almost slightless coins across using the dental dam principal to hold out (ie "palm") one coin and finishing with the coin penetrating the glove?
I think it might have been a Doug Bennett effect?
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 10/31/01 09:52 PM

Yes, Bill, that was a Doug Bennett effect--and quite a clever one.
Of all the things which Lubor Fiedler has created, his coin penetration through a piece of dental dam is the most ingenious. Everytime I have to go to a new dentist, I borrow a piece of Dental dam and do the trick. The guys are blown away. I always teach it to them--and get a few cavities filled for free!
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Postby Guest » 10/31/01 11:39 PM

Originally posted by Bill Duncan:
Anyone remember the marketed trick that used surgical gloves to do an almost slightless[...]


Okay, not exactly on point here, but why do you suppose that a staggering number of magicians who post on boards like this one don't know it's spelled "SLEIGHT"? Surely they've all seen the word in magazines such as Genii and in various magic books. I don't mean to pick on this particular poster - the error is commonplace in our fraternity - I just wonder if anyone has a theory why otherwise intelligent writers so often make this simple mistake...

Regards,
Thomas Wayne
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Postby Joe M. Turner » 11/02/01 06:01 AM

I heartily concur -- that spelling error is also one of my own pet peeves.

In some cases it may be due to automatic spelling checkers "correcting" the word, but I would venture that in most instances it's simply due to the writer's lack of understanding of the difference between "slight" and "sleight."

Good to see you on the Genii forum.

Best,
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Postby Guest » 11/02/01 06:18 AM

"Slight" always irks me too.

But, in its defence, my dictionary includes it as an obsolete spelling of "sleight".
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Postby Joe M. Turner » 11/02/01 06:26 AM

The etymology may warrant further examination. Does your dictionary offer a definition of "sleight" as a noun, as it is often used in magical writing?

Sorry for the sideline from the dental dam topic.

The easily distracted JMT
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Postby Guest » 11/02/01 06:31 AM

It does. My only dictionary to hand is a rather ancient Chambers 20th Century Dictionary.

sleight (obs. slight), n. cunning: dexterity: an artful trick: a juggling trick: trickery: a design, device, pattern (Spens.). - sleight-of-hand legerdemain. - Also adj.

The even more readily distracted DLeF

[ November 02, 2001: Message edited by: Dave Le Fevre ]
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Postby Bill Duncan » 11/02/01 08:28 PM

Originally posted by Thomas Wayne:
...why do you suppose that a staggering number of magicians who post on boards like this one don't know it's spelled "SLEIGHT"? ...I just wonder if anyone has a theory why otherwise intelligent writers so often make this simple mistake...

...Geeez, and I thought being married to an English Professor was tough!

Perhaps it's the case that they do know the difference but don't bother to proof-read their posts unless they're very long and complex.

[ November 02, 2001: Message edited by: Bill Duncan ]
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 11/02/01 10:15 PM

Bill, I think it's the same reason that people decide to type without bothering to use capital letters (i think so). Or the same reason that people use jibberish like: i can c u. Illiterate CRAP like that.
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Postby Guest » 11/03/01 01:38 PM

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
Bill, I think it's the same reason that people decide to type without bothering to use capital letters (i think so). Or the same reason that people use jibberish like: i can c u. Illiterate CRAP like that.


Yeah. Or when they use all caps to emphasize a word because underlining or boldface may not be available. I HATE that. Oh, wait a minute... that's what I do... nevermind.

Regards,
Thomas Wayne
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 11/03/01 08:33 PM

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
:) :)
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Postby Guest » 11/03/01 08:59 PM

Just the other day some character got upset when I corrected his mis-spelling of "John Ramsay", (he spelled it Ramsey).


My spelling stinks, but a person's name is worth the effort to get off your ass, grab a book, and copy.

As far as "sleight", there is no excuse.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 11/03/01 10:41 PM

Oh, c'mon, there might be a slight excuse! Actually, before spelling became standardized, "sleight" was often spelled "slight" in literature referring to magic tricks and ... slights.
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Postby Guest » 11/03/01 11:18 PM

BACK 2 "dental damn"
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Postby Guest » 11/28/01 01:35 AM

Yikes! Let's all journey with Tom back to 7th grade.

"I" before "E" except after "C", with the exceptions of either, neither, leisure, weird, seizure, and protein.

Ah, ha!!!! 7th grade is to blame. The lazy SOBs didn't include "sleight". I guess they thought no one literate was going to become a magician.

You can add seismic to the list. What is an architect/magician to do?

Tom Cutts
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About Magic...Performing Magic

[ November 28, 2001: Message edited by: Tom Cutts ]
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Postby Brian Morton » 11/28/01 11:22 AM

Yikes! Let's all journey with Tom back to 7th grade.

"I" before "E" except after "C", with the exceptions of either, neither, leisure, weird, seizure, and protein.


Gee, Tom -- you left out the word that caused the end of my career as a spelling genius in the fifth grade:

Society.

Made me want to yell "dental DAMN."

brian :cool:
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Postby Guest » 12/11/01 12:57 PM

I just made a mad dash to my ThirdAge page to make sure I spelled sleight correctly (I did)

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Postby Bill Mullins » 12/11/01 03:31 PM

Originally posted by Tom Cutts:
Yikes! Let's all journey with Tom back to 7th grade.

"I" before "E" except after "C", with the exceptions of either, neither, leisure, weird, seizure, and protein.


"I" before "E" except after "C",
or when sounded as "A", as in
"Neighbor" and "Weigh"

was how I learned it.

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Postby Jim Morton » 12/11/01 04:42 PM

Originally posted by bill mullins:


"I" before "E" except after "C",
or when sounded as "A", as in
"Neighbor" and "Weigh"

was how I learned it.

Bill Mullins


That's how I learned it too, which is why I misspelled weird well into my early thirties. :mad:

Getting back on the subject, here in San Francisco, they sell dental dams at the organic grocery store a few blocks from my house. You don't want to know what for. ;)

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Postby Bill Duncan » 12/11/01 11:10 PM

Originally posted by Jim Morton:

Getting back on the subject, here in San Francisco, they sell dental dams at the organic grocery store a few blocks from my house. You don't want to know what for. ;)

Anybody who doesn't already know wouldn't understand anyway...

:D
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Postby Jeremy Medows » 12/12/01 08:32 AM

Many of you have referred to the dental dams that are used for sex for the coin trick. Obviously, you have never tried them. These dental dams are way too thin and tear apart when you load the coin in there. When I was in HS and college, and went to the health office for the free condoms, I always swiped a few of the dental dams for magical purposes. These dams are lousy for the coin trick, but are ok for some gaffed cards that require dd. Now, here's the question that's been asked, but never answered on the net (or I missed that comet): Aside from going to a magicshop, how can I obtain a quality dental dam for the coin trick. Please be specific with the type of grade, name of a dealer and their contact info (mail order is probably best). Please don't say "go to a dentists supply shop". Details are important. I know I can use a balloon as a substitute, but I'm looking for dd. Also, please don't ask me to ask my dentist. I feel like such a shnorah when I do that and I try to limit my begging to this board. Any one with a specific, detailed answer?

Best,
Jeremy
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 12/12/01 09:55 AM

Either I'm too old, or too straight, or I've been out of New York City too long, but will someone please explain what the heck you do with dental dam during a sexual act?
Now, Jeremy, my dentist is always happy to give me a little pile of dental dam whenever I visit him. I do a card trick or two, and the dental dam is mine in trade. I do not feel the least bit like a moocher.
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Postby Guest » 12/12/01 10:05 AM

So I'm guessing that you're not trying to push the coin through it at the same time, Jeremy?

It does rather sound as if your attention would be directed away from coin magic at the time.

Dave
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 12/12/01 10:11 AM

Jeremy,
Thank you very much for your speedy reply. All is now clear.
I have deleted your post because I have no idea how many fairly young kids are on the forum, and frankly I don't want a ten year old asking his friends what those terms mean, having learned them on our forum. The kid's parents might not be too please (but I sure was pleased to get my question answered)! :)
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Postby Jeremy Medows » 12/12/01 10:26 AM

I take no objection to your deletion of my post. Actually, I learned all of this stuff (formally) as a sophmore in high school (NYC public school system) around 10 years ago.

Jeremy
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Postby Jeremy Medows » 12/17/01 09:23 AM

I do now take objection to the censure of my post. After reading Penn's article on Mac King in the latest Genii, it looks like there's a double standard. Richard, do you think a 10 year old reading Genii will ask his daddy what "hung" means?

Jeremy
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 12/17/01 07:12 PM

I think "hung" is a word that has other meanings and a kid probably won't think much about it. Subject closed.
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Postby Pete Biro » 12/19/01 07:45 PM

Back to the dd trick... I can still remember going to Detroit to Karrell Fox's magic shop and Roy Kissel demonstrating.

I had been out of magic for awhile and when Roy did the dd coin into glass I was totally NAILED... ooops...nailed!

And I had no idea that it was Lubor Fiedler's. He has really done some indredible creating of miraculous effects.

Stay tooned...
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Postby Tom Stone » 12/28/01 05:36 AM

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
Everytime I have to go to a new dentist, I borrow a piece of Dental dam and do the trick


Regarding Dental dam, I would really like to read a thorough, and well illustrated, description of how to make Acrobatic flap cards. Mine becomes quite okey, but the method I use is one I've deviced myself, and is very complicated - and I'm sure that there are easier ways to make them. Maybe this could become an article in Genii?
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 12/28/01 09:58 PM

Tom,
There are lots of issues in making "flap" or "Acro" cards as many people call them (after the Acrobatic card that would turn over and required a flap powered by dental dam).
First of all, cards with elastic inside them to power a flap go back almost a hundred years if not more. The older versions used black strip elastic on the back of the card to cause the final corner in a torn-card routine to visually flip into place.
These days, dental dam is generally used (though if you go back and look in the Dingle book, he used Saran Wrap for his flap card needed in the Universal Card routine--the finest in-the-hands version of the plot extant). Dental Dam dries out over time. Certain types of glue won't hold it.
Don England uses rubber cement, which itself dries out in a few years.
Obviously, you must stretch the dental dam while gluing it in place, and then keep it stretched while it dries.
Gary Plants makes superb cards and gimmicks using Dental Dam.
I know, I haven't really answered your question!
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Postby Tom Stone » 12/29/01 07:05 AM

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:

These days, dental dam is generally used (though if you go back and look in the Dingle book, he used Saran Wrap for his flap card needed in the Universal Card routine--the finest in-the-hands version of the plot extant). Dental Dam dries out over time. Certain types of glue won't hold it.
Don England uses rubber cement, which itself dries out in a few years.
Obviously, you must stretch the dental dam while gluing it in place, and then keep it stretched while it dries.
I know, I haven't really answered your question!

No, but at least you tried :)
"Saran Wrap" is a name I don't recognize. If it is a brand name, perhaps you can tell me what it is used for, to make it easier to find a national equivalent over here?

I've been experimenting with dental dam a lot, so I'm well aware of the problems of finding the correct glue, and such things. But the biggest trouble is that I always seem to be one hand short. It seems impossible to make a gaff without a messy contraption of bulldog clips and thumb tacks to be able to both stretch and position the pieces correctly.
Michael Weber once showed me an easier method with rubber glue, which works for some "softer" gaffs - but I'm mostly interested in gaffs with a more forceful spring.
Anyway, should an oppertunity turn up where it is possible to make an article about the construction of Acrobatic gaffs, you now know that you have at least one interested reader :)
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Postby Curtis Kam » 01/07/02 12:28 PM

Before we leave the coin-through-the-DD effect altogether, (or is that "all together"?) I just want to mention that out here in Hawaii, the very talented Mr. Allen Okawa has a full-blown routine for the DD that starts with the spectator examining the DD at the beginning of the effect, then the coin is introduced and placed on top of the DD. The moves are completely natural and disarming, and Allen taught the effet in his last lecture for "the boys" out here about two years ago. Maybe our moderator can get him to tip it for Genii?
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Postby Guest » 03/03/03 08:18 PM

Curtis,

That would be wonderful if you could get Allen Okawa to tip his handling regarding dental dam. Having to have a setup has always been a weakness in the routine. Sitting at a table, I could sometimes get away with a switch but it would be nice to be able to do the effect impromptu.

Turk
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Postby Frank Tougas » 03/05/03 08:07 PM

Jeremy

The dental dam you seek is made by Hygenic and distributed through Coltene/Whaledent Inc
Mahwah, N.J. 1-800-221-3046

What you want specifically is Dental Dam 6 x 6" Medium Dark.

I got mine through a friend whose husband is a rep for dental supplies. Your best bet would be to ask for the name of a rep nearby your location and see if he or she would be willing to sell you a single box of 36 pieces.

I forget what I paid, but it was a lot cheaper than the single sheets sold by magic shops or ecen the price through their wholesalers.

This is the good gray colored one, much superior in my estimation to the amber or white ones.

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Postby Jim Riser » 03/05/03 10:16 PM

Frank;
I've always bought it in a 6" wide roll rather than in precut 6" square sheets.

Re: The incorrect spelling of sleight....the number of "magicians" who spell performing as preforming bothers me at least as much. If you are a supposed performer, you certainly should know how to spell the word.
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Postby Guest » 03/05/03 11:56 PM

Originally posted by Jim Riser:
Frank;
[...]
Re: The incorrect spelling of sleight....the number of "magicians" who spell performing as preforming bothers me at least as much. [...]
Insofar as the "r" and the "e" are adjacent on virtually all computer keyboards, and insofar as the natural finger roll of typing makes it much more natural to type "p-r-e" than to type "p-e-r", and insofar as most spell checkers will not alert to the word "preform" (and/or its variations) I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of magicians that you may THINK are unable to correctly spell "perform" are probably guilty of nothing more than a simple typo.

That's what I think, anyway...

Regards,
Thomas Wayne
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Postby Guest » 03/09/03 05:39 PM

What about Feke and Fake ?
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Postby Guest » 03/14/03 09:39 PM

Ah, I'm happy somone has opened that theatre of criticism. In that vein, the use of the word "was" when it should be "were" drives me nuts. After the word "if" (meaning any uncertainty, meaning subjunctive case) the word to use is "were". For past tense of something that already happened or existed, use "was", example: "it was yesterday" but, "if it were today..." Some of the best current books err painfully on this; where is the editor??
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