Magic Technique

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Postby Themagicofcurtis » 10/09/10 09:13 PM

well after discussion on the thread of like street magic that I created I attempted to take the criticism and improve as I could with technique and patter so here is what I have, giving my cardini change with patter, the hermann pass and the one handed top change, I honestly hope that you see some type of improvement
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LuEVHiZBuI
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Postby Brad Henderson » 10/09/10 09:24 PM

The presentation is confusing.

It's not linear.

What is the effect? Tell me what they are meant to believe has happened. In one sentence.
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Postby Themagicofcurtis » 10/09/10 09:47 PM

The image/memory/perceived event of where the card was placed as different of what actually occurred, as it was left on top, which then the magician shows the spectator what he can see since he was not under the influence of the aforementioned sudden forgetfulness. There you have it.
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Postby Brad Henderson » 10/09/10 10:01 PM

Now - honestly, was that very clear at all?

How does the sudden forgetfulness occur? When does it occur? Why does it occur?
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Postby Themagicofcurtis » 10/09/10 10:18 PM

There more to the patter that one could add "People forget things. Now studies show it is because you never gave enough attention to remember in the first place. Let me show you" then continue....
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Postby Brad Henderson » 10/09/10 11:21 PM

So, what is your role in this? Do you posses some skill that facillitates this? Areyou demonstrating something that naturally happens? If it naturally happens, why is it amazing? How does this process work?
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Postby Ian Kendall » 10/10/10 10:07 AM

Hi Curtis,

Get hold of this book: http://www.stevensmagic.com/product/oth ... 111586.htm and pay special attention to the section on 'visual noise'.

And the rest of the book is excellent, too. Natch.

Ian
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Postby Carlo Morpurgo » 10/10/10 10:13 AM

I do think that the initial presentation needs some adjustments, but these questions you are asking, Brad, are complicating matters a lot more....

I think the word "forget" perhaps is out of place in this bit.
Too much of a hard sell to tell they "forgot" the queen is on top as they are watching it go inside the deck. This is more of an illusion or hallucination "you think I am going to put it inside the deck but it's really still on top - see, you are convinced it's the six of clubs but as you snap out of it you see it's still the queen" or something like that.

I think your technique is excellent....what do the experts think here, beside the presentation?
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Postby opie » 10/10/10 10:40 AM

Curtis, nice moves. I would guess that they are but one way to affect the rise of a card in a larger Ambitious Card routine....

Your technique is fine.....Toss in some one liners or patter lines that enhance but do not detract from the display of skill...

I would love to see a complete Ambitious Card routine by you, using several techniques that you obviously have in your skills bag...AND which has a well thought-out entertaining presentation.

Remember: Our work is not to show off; it is to entertain......I am thrilled to see young folks like you seeking advice regarding both technique and presentation....Keep on keeping....

Hope that helps.....opie
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Postby Brad Henderson » 10/10/10 11:16 AM

Carlo, I see no value in writing the presentation for him.

The problem is he has a move and has put words to the move that do not create a clear premise for what is seen to have happened. Part of that problem is the nature of the premise. Part of it is the fact the presentation is nonlinear (at no time is the premise set up followed by a logical sequence of events to realize the stated premise) and what presentation he does have is not delivered in clear verbal units. Part of the problem is that there is no moment of magic (ala skinner) or even clear communication of 'how' this 'thing' is happening.

Until he can define the effect succinctly and clearly, until he understands how and why this 'thing' allegedly happens, he is just doing a move and talking at the same time.
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Postby Carlo Morpurgo » 10/10/10 12:29 PM

I agree, but my point was that thinking about (or answering) questions such as "what is your role in this? Do you possess some skill that facilitates this? Are you demonstrating something that naturally happens? If it naturally happens, why is it amazing? How does this process work?" is likely not going to clarify and correct the problem (which I think is an improper and out of tempo usage of the verb "forget").
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Postby Brad Henderson » 10/10/10 03:00 PM

I agree that his word choice for the effect is poor, but I feel answering the questions is part of the process required for him to figure out what he wants the audience to believe happened. Once those questions are answered, the presentation pretty much writes itself.
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Postby Themagicofcurtis » 10/10/10 09:39 PM

Okay carlo, thanks so much. brad, I gave more reasoning and the patter is in my knowledge and not too badly thought out. But I wanted to show (you mostly) that I did have technique after you only seeing me perform a simple effect in a more cut up manner. I didn't find the "hallucination" bit to be extremely original. THe patter could use a little more work but I think that most could understand it, remember I'm only talking to a camera and get no immediate response ;-) but thanks for the thoughts from all of you guys.
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Postby John Wilson » 10/11/10 01:59 AM

I think what Brad is bringing up has little if anything to do with the camera, but rather with the overall presentation of the effect. It is a bit confusing. This has little to do with the camera and more to do with the pseudo explanation in the patter.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 10/11/10 02:10 AM

Curtis, glad to see that you've got some sleight of hand chops.

Your performance of the trick at the start of the video is a good example of patter that's too hip for the simple trick it's trying to support. There's always a middle ground between dumb patter (most of what we hear) and intellectual patter (which we rarely hear, but that's often for a reason).

You're doing a simple trick in making the Queen rise to the top of the deck via a Color Change. The patter is confusing because the simplicity of the trick can't support the thoughts. You could rewrite it into a single sentence and then it would be appropriate and support the single effect that occurs.

I think this is a good example of how stinky street-magic style editing (the first video) can make someone look like a bad magician, when in fact Curtis has all the makings of a good cardman who can do the real work.
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Postby Larry Horowitz » 10/11/10 07:32 PM

"you forgot that I left it on top, you replaced it with the image of me setting in the center"

Curtis,
This is all very confusing. You are telling them that they are remembering something that you never did! You never gave them the impression that the queen was left on top. You immediately gave them the impression that it was put into the center.

Your story may be that they are not mis-remebering, but rather not seeing what they think they are seeing. Therefore they are remembering a lie. You can play with this.

You may tell them that every time they try to remember what they have seen, they are wrong because the queen is on top. They are in fact remembering a hallucination.....now do the double, show the queen, turn face down, place card in center. But tell the audience NOT to remember. In fact when you ask them what happened tell them they should reply they don't remember. Play this up, get a strong response. Then show the queen on top and let them know that what they don't remember. never happened.

You can play many word games with the audience but you must make sure that every step is clear in the mind, not just physically but verbally.

Think of what Brad has asked you......when they audience walks away, how will they in short tell someone what just happened...he put the card in the middle, "I saw it" but it appeared on top. That is the essence of the effect and there must be no confusion.

And by the way, don't be upset with the answers you may get on this board. We are not professional critiques, we may not be able to write as a professor at college may right, but you are receiving answers form some of the best in the business.
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Postby Themagicofcurtis » 10/12/10 02:26 PM

Okay yes, the patter could use a little work. I'm not sure why Larry thinks that I am defensive/upset on this thread. I'm only responding with my reasoning. I think it was Anselm that said there are 3 parts to reality: What actually occurred, What you perceived as occurring, and How you felt about what you perceived.

thanks to Richard Kaufman for the compliments, I do work hard which is why I was a little not understanding on the first post of people saying that I have no skill with cards......... compliments do mean a lot to me, but criticism is also valuable
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