Genii Sessions for September

Discuss the views of your favorite Genii columnists.

Postby Dustin Stinett » 08/22/03 11:30 PM

Mr. Giobbi's latest column is quite fascinating to me. I have been doing different practice combinations like this (though with fewer techniques than he described) for a long time. One combination in particular, however, has little use in the "real" world; it's just good practice. I do a double turnover and replacement; then insert the top card into the center of the deck. I pivot it out while inserting it and side-steal it back to the top where I do another double turnover--then do it over and over. In "effect," the top card is shown, inserted into the center and it appears back on top. But as I said, in the real world, why bother with the technique I use? Practice-practice-practice!

As for what I would like to see in future "Sessions," well, I hesitate to admit it, but I am Diagonal Palm Shift challenged (particularly with multiple cards). I just don't get it. I can execute something like the Erdnase Bottom Palm, but this thing just flat escapes me. I don't know what else he could add to his excellent description in Volume 3 of Card College, but I know I need something more. If not even more detail on the technique in a "Genii Session," then perhaps a telethon to raise money for a personal lesson would be possible?

Dustin
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Postby Guest » 08/23/03 12:02 AM

I'm not sure if this is discussed in Card College but what helped me a lot was learning about the idea of the double choke. I've heard that this idea is published in Revelations. It's a bit hard to describe online, maybe someone else is up for the challenge. Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

Noah
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Postby Dustin Stinett » 08/23/03 12:41 AM

Thanks, Noah! I picked up Revelations not too long ago, but have not yet had the opportunity to get into it. I will look into that!

Thanks again!
Dustin
(Must now hate Noah because Noah is a kid who is clearly better than me - dang it. I hate it when that happens!)
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Postby Guest » 08/23/03 07:34 AM

Dustin, I have worked with the Diagonal Palm Shift quite a bit, and posted info on the Magic Cafe. I'm not sure how to retrieve the posts though, they seem to have changed the search capabilities! Also, I published some work in L.I.N.T., by John Luka and L&L. As far as multiple cards, there is a technique that combines two Erdnase slieghts to ensure the easy excecution of the shift. Briefly, if you combine the little finger action of the bottom palm with the standard methodology for the diagonal, you will be sure that the multiple cards stay in alignment and do not bind as they are removed from the deck and go into the palm. I can go into more detail, with rationale, if you are interested. Anyone who has seen this will tell you it is most effective, and in fact, Charlie Miller used to pose the four cards from multiple locations in the deck (as opposed to a block of four)problem as a test. When I explained and demonstrated my combination of Erdnase techniques he was very kind in his assessment of the merits of this technique. If you were ever critiqued by Charlie, you'll know what that means!

Best, PSC
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 08/23/03 09:53 AM

The Diagonal Palm Shift is a real killer. Not only is it tough to do, but it has a real tendency to leak from all kinds of angles.
Jennings' method is the one I've been practicing for years. I also do Vernon's method with the double choke.
Dustin, next time I see you I'll be happy to give you a lesson. The sleight is EASIER to do with a block of cards!
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Postby Dustin Stinett » 08/23/03 10:35 AM

Richard,

I'll take you up on that. Are you coming out for the History Conference? One thing, however, my purpose for wanting to do this move is to control four cards in separate parts of the deck. Of course a block might be an expedient way of learning the move first, then graduating to separated cards. Of course, I have enough trouble with one! (I'm convinced I just have a brain-vapor-lock on this one--I should be able to do it, dammit!)

Mr. Chosse,

Thanks very much! I searched the Magic Caf and found this thread:

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/view ... 28&forum=2

It's fascinating reading and I have a couple of observations/comments:

The DPS/EBP combination is a fabulous idea (since the problems I encounter are those you described) so I will begin working on that! I suppose being able to do the EBP will also instill in me some much-needed confidence that I will be able to do the DPS one day!

The dribble feint is a terrific idea! MANY applications, as I see it, especially for those of us who still occasionally dribble. (Remember when everybody was dribbling the deck every few seconds? Yikes!)

I was particularly pleased with your application of acting technique to sleight of hand. That is something that is woefully lacking in the literature of magic. Perhaps you have more thoughts in this direction (and with moves/technique other than the DPS) that you would consider sharing with the forum? Actually, that would make a fine subject for a Genii/Magicana feature, wouldnt it Richard?

The Magic Caf thread seemed to die off after young Euan's second clip (which was much better than his first, if I may be so bold). If there is anything else you would care to share here (for example, please expand on the technique and the cover you use for using the DPS as a top palm), I would certainly enjoy reading it!

Thanks again!

Dustin
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Postby Philippe Noël » 08/24/03 02:23 AM

Dear Dustin,
Before you take Richard's lesson, may I suggest you to watch Jennings himself performing and explaining the diagonal palm shift in his routine Ambidextrous Travelers that you can find on his video:Classic Magic, The Larry Jennings video. I would also advise you to watch Michael Skinner performing and explaining the diagonal palm shift in his routine Tabled Ambitious that you can find on his video: Michael Skinner's Professional Close-up Magic Vol. 3. That being said, Giobbi's description although excellent presents Vernon's method of doing the diagonal palm shift. Jennings explains that if you have rather large hand, Erdnase's method is still the best because you put the card in your left palm in one movement, without any squaring action.
Personally, I think that putting a concave bent into the deck help the card to go into your palm easier. I also think that the deck must not be parallel to the floor when the selected card is introduced into the deck. I think it is better to tilt the deck to the down right.
Once the card begins to turn into your left palm, I think you must turn your hands inward to kill angles. By the way, I use Erdnase Method and I start with deck in dealing position as Jennings.
You will also find some very interesting tips from Jennings on his video:Paris Super Session Vol.1, see Ambidextrous Travelers.
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Postby Dustin Stinett » 08/24/03 12:47 PM

Thanks Philippe,

I am not normally "video boy" but perhaps this will be one of those times when a bookworm could benefit from the flickers. The next time I'm up at the Castle, I'll see if these sources are available.

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Postby Guest » 08/24/03 06:19 PM

My main man "Heavy" D:

Send me your address and I'll send you my "Classic Magic of Larry Jennings." I just won the DVDs on Ebay -- alerted by Genii, by the way -- and it's the least I can do to show my appreciation of your excellent contributions on this website and in particular the BookODaMonth, which motivates me every time a new volume is addressed.

--Randy Campbell
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Postby Dustin Stinett » 08/24/03 07:33 PM

Very cool of you, Dr. DUK! I will take you up on that!

You da man!

D
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Postby Jonathan Levey » 08/24/03 09:03 PM

Dennis Behr has a short clip of a 'training' type of excercise which he calls 'how to lose the card into the centre of the deck'...
I think he starts off by doing a double lift, second deal, snap deal and replacement on top, then a feunte pass to the centre... Good stuff!

Regards,
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Postby Ian Kendall » 08/27/03 02:07 PM

Has anyone noticed that Roberto's kata for packet tricks (cyclic Ghost/Jordan counts interspersed with Ascanio spreads, buckle counts and the flushtration move) accurately describes the method for at least three marketed effects?

Also, I'm sure there are more of us that have kata for coin moves. I rarely walk down the street without moving a coin between classic/finger/thumb/edge grip palms and muscle passing from hand to hand...

But I'm obsessive compulsive...

Take care, Ian
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Postby Philippe Noël » 08/30/03 11:24 PM

Dear Dustin,
How are you doing with your Diagonal Palm Shift?
By the way, does someone know why most descriptions of the DPS begin with the deck held at left hand fingertips in stead of keeping the deck in dealing position?
Oh and you can also watch John Carney performing and explaining the DPS on his video:The Greater Magic Video Library Volume 8, see Card in the Ballon.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 08/31/03 09:07 AM

The deck begins at the fingertips because the move was first published in The Expert at the Card Table, and the Erdnase "rest" position for the deck in many things is, if I recall, at the fingertips rather than in dealing position.
This creates a more open and, its proponents claim, fair look.
Most people who I've seen do the sleight, except those to stringently follow what's written by Erdnase, have the deck in dealing position.
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Postby Dustin Stinett » 08/31/03 09:43 AM

About the same, Philippe. I'm hoping to see the Jennings video soon. Plus, I have a lesson scheduled with Mr. Kaufman soon (I hope).

Thanks for asking!
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Postby Guest » 09/01/03 11:44 AM

-I hesitate to admit it, but I am Diagonal Palm Shift challenged

Me too. I went to Houdini Days over the weekend in Appleton, WI(Told everyone at work I took the weekend off because I turned 30...but it was really all about the magic) and saw many GREAT close up performances. The V.I.P. reception was awesome(thanks to Chris Cochrane for getting me through the door) with intimate performances from Doc Eason, Joshua Jay, and more.

I too have problem with the shift, and asked Joshua about it. He showed me what it should look like at speed, and now I feel like I'll NEVER EVER EVER EVER get it. Wow...it looked awesome. He is a great performer and had people gasping with the chinese coins on ribbon.

Michael Ammar was fantastic to watch and very friendly. Doc eason got me so many times during his muliple selection/revelation trick. I knew it was coming...and still missed the card going under the glass EVERY TIME! Fun times.
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Postby Dustin Stinett » 09/14/03 11:07 PM

There is hope. Yes indeed, there is hope.

The other day I received a video of the great Larry Jennings from a friend. I watched it yesterday, and on this video is Mr. Jennings talking about the DPS. So did it help me? Nope. Not directly. Boy was I bummed. "No hope," I thought. "If I can't get something from a video, I'm the basket case I figured I am."

But tonight, I pick up Revelations and reread (for the gazillionth time) the Erdnase description of the move. It was like a great veil had been lifted from my eyes. I could see in my mind's eyes what was suppose to happen as I read. This is what usually happens for me when reading the description of a sleight: Two or three readings at the most. But the DPS was absolutely elusive to me. Not this time! I picked up the deck and you know what? It just happened! Kind of like the first time I...well never mind that, but the DPS just happened! Over and over again: One card; two cards; four cards!

The combination of seeing the move explained by someone with a true working knowledge of it, coupled with the original description was the key.

Obviously it needs refining and that will take time, but lookout world! I'm a Diagonal Palm Shifter!

Thank you Larry Jennings (and of course you, my good friend Dr. DUK), Mr. Erdnase (whoever you were) and the rest of you as well!

Dustin
(Won't sleep tonight...too pumped up! Gotta go DPS some more!)
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Postby Philippe Noël » 09/15/03 07:58 AM

Happy news Dustin!
Your experience is exactly what I think is the best way to learn magic. Both books AND videos have their advantages, videos alone are bad learning and books alone are sometimes not sufficent.
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Postby Guest » 09/25/03 07:35 PM

For Giobbi,
For me the Cull has been totally elusive. Lennart Greene does the angle cull but my hands don't hold the divisions too long. the Hofzinser cull is totally beyond me. Kostya Kimlat has the most incredilbe and rapid cull in the world but even his printed version of it escapes my mastery. Can Giobbi help?
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