Hugely overlooked sleight

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.

Postby Jackie Huang » 09/07/10 11:18 AM

In another post Richard said "Hugely overlooked sleight: The Peek Lap. Used to kill guys with this."

I think this will be an excellent topic in this forum. Would you like to share what you consider is a hugely overlooked sleight that you have much success with?

(In CUCM, Harry Lorayne wrote a full chapter of Curry's Turnbver Change. I wonder if he considered that a hugely overlooked sleight at the time, until he popularized it.)
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Postby Joe Mckay » 09/07/10 04:09 PM

I've got a few:

1) DISCREPANCY CITY DISPLAY - John Bannon - This is a beautiful move. It has that quality which enables you to actually fool yourself with it when practicing. It isn't massively overlooked - but considering what an amazing move it is I can't help feeling it should be used alot more often.

2) DUPLICOUNT - Gordon Bruce - PABULAR MAGAZINE Vol. 5 ISSUE 5 - This is another one which will fool you when you play with it. Any trick requiring a frustration count will usually look much much better by substituting in this move. This certainly counts as an underused sleight...

3) TRIGGER - Roy Walton - Vol.1 of THE COMPLETE WALTON - This is a lovely move which has a ton of great uses. It is a move which I never see used and seems ripe for much more exploration. It is move which opens the door to a ton of novel effects (as seen in the Walton book above).

On a sidenote my favourite move in recent years has being the HOLLINGWORTH OPTICAL ALLIGNMENT by Guy Hollingworth. It is alot easier to do than you would first imagine. And it is is just beautiful. When the card reverses it looks perfect since there is no visible finger movement. A rare thing in sleight-of-hand.

All the best,

Joe
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Postby Joe Mckay » 09/07/10 05:26 PM

Sorry - Gotta' mention another one!

THE BILIS SPREAD - Bernard Bilis - This is a great move which is very easy to do. It is practically self-working and allows you to lay a perfectly squared double card on the table. It is used in the context of displaying 4 cards as 3 (the middle card is a double) as they are spread on the table. Again - looks difficult but is easy to do. I would love to see some uses for this move. I have yet to come across any...

Joe

PS Here is a great Bob Farmer move which deserves more love as well. You can find a description HERE.
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Postby Edward » 09/07/10 07:14 PM

One that I personally like is the D'Amico Spread.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 09/07/10 10:14 PM

Roy taught me Trigger, and I was able to do it for a while, but as soon as I stopped, it left me. Haven't been able to do it since. It's not difficult, but counterintuitive to the degree that it's almost impossible to keep in your mind. But it is a good move.

I would nominate J.K. Hartman's Popover Move.
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Postby Paul Gordon » 09/07/10 11:14 PM

It's funny how that when we are young we are eager to learn every sleight in the book; and that as we get older - we only tend to use a handful.

My nomination for an overlooked sleight is also Trigger. I couldn't work it out from Roy's book, and when he showed it to me...I still didn't "get" it but was too proud to say so! :)

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Postby James Cotton » 09/08/10 01:14 AM

JK Hartman's "Covered Cop Transfer". A brilliant add-on move.
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Postby Joe Mckay » 09/08/10 01:27 AM

A couple more...

THE CHARLIE MILLER FACE-UP BOTTOM DEAL by Charlie Miller. This is a lovely swindle which makes possible some amazing effects...

TWO TON TURNOVER (a very deceptive and easy to do force by Bill Goodwin. I read somewhere that the credit should be shared with Gordon Bruce as well, by the way)

Joe
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Postby Bill Duncan » 09/08/10 02:36 AM

Minch's Force Feed
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Postby Harry Lorayne » 09/08/10 01:04 PM

For me, personally (obviously) it's my HaLo Cut, Ultra Move, Curry's Turnover Change. HL
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Postby Harry Lorayne » 09/08/10 01:07 PM

PS: Minch's Force Feed plus my variation, in one of my BOF books; Braue's Secret Reversal and Braue's Add-On. HL.
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Postby Dustin Stinett » 09/08/10 01:32 PM

The Top Change primarily because I think people are afraid of it.

Well I say Dont Fear the Reaper (and more cowbell!).
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 09/08/10 02:19 PM

Nobody does the Curry Turnover Change any more--it's fallen completely out of favor.
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Postby Joe Mckay » 09/08/10 02:48 PM

In one of the CARD COLLEGE volumes there is a variation on the CURRY TURNOVER CHANGE which is worth checking out. It is a simplified version by Dai Vernon which is much easier to do...

Joe
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Postby Philippe Billot » 09/08/10 04:23 PM

In Card College, Vol. 4, page 813.
This Vernon's variant was first published in Super Cardman Stuff by Al Leech in 1965 and was inspired by a Bill Simon's Switch described in Effective Card Magic, page 117, published in 1952.
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Postby Liderc » 09/08/10 05:17 PM

On a sidenote my favourite move in recent years has being the HOLLINGWORTH OPTICAL ALLIGNMENT by Guy Hollingworth. It is alot easier to do than you would first imagine. And it is is just beautiful. When the card reverses it looks perfect since there is no visible finger movement. A rare thing in sleight-of-hand.


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Postby Leonard Hevia » 09/08/10 06:11 PM

Most of the moves described don't have sources.
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Postby Ian Kendall » 09/08/10 06:18 PM

Doesn't Armando Lucero use the Curry move in his matrix routine? Or something else I've seen him do, anyway...

I'm quite partial to the Himber coin vanish.

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Postby Richard Kaufman » 09/08/10 06:59 PM

The best variation of the Curry Change actually predates it, and it's a move card cheaters have used for almost a century. Much easier, no angles, etc.

For magicians, Tony Kardyro's handling is much better.
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 09/08/10 07:13 PM

"The best variation of the Curry Change actually predates it...For magicians, Tony Kardyro's handling is much better."

? if not descriptions can we get citations?

PS the quotes thingie is not doing too well recently
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Postby John Wilson » 09/09/10 03:54 AM

I think I will go with the glimpse, key card, and second deal.
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Postby Jim Maloney » 09/09/10 09:33 AM

Joe Mckay said: "THE BILIS SPREAD - Bernard Bilis - This is a great move which is very easy to do. It is practically self-working and allows you to lay a perfectly squared double card on the table. It is used in the context of displaying 4 cards as 3 (the middle card is a double) as they are spread on the table. Again - looks difficult but is easy to do. I would love to see some uses for this move. I have yet to come across any..."

Is this the turnover thing? If so, check out David Ben's book, "Tricks". He independently came up with the same idea around the same time as Bilis (early 80's) and has published a few applications. Check out "Turnover Travelers" and "Just Four Variety". If that's not what you're referring to, check it out anyway, it's good.

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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 09/09/10 09:48 AM

There's a funky way to get a double card out from a packet of four - pretty much the start of a Gemini count, but you tip your hand down and let gravity take out the middle two from the buckled card at the bottom and the top card gently held by the thumb. Card pivots out and under a wrist flick it can be put under something on the table etc- not sure if it got published or where.
Last edited by Jonathan Townsend on 09/09/10 10:05 AM, edited 0 times in total.
Reason: old news - but a useful item
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Postby Joe Mckay » 09/09/10 11:05 AM

Firstly - The BILIS SPREAD doesn't involve anything that could be called a turnover. As such - I think David Ben's may be different. But I haven't confirmed this yet...

Anyway - here are some references.

1) The Guy Hollingworth sleight is found in the chapter on TWISTING THE ACES in DRAWING ROOM DECEPTIONS.

2) The Bill Goodwin/Gordon Bruce 'TWO TON TURNOVER' sleight was published in an old issue of MAGIC magazine. I can dig out the exact reference if anyone wants it? It has also seen print in Jim Swain's MIRACLES WITH CARDS, Mike Close's CLOSELY GUARDED SECRETS and one of on the CARD CONSPIRACY books by Peter Duffie and Robin Robertson.

3) The 'DISCREPANCY CITY DISPLAY' by John Bannon can be found in SMOKE AND MIRRORS and IMPOSSIBILIA. It was also featured a few times in 'The Linking Ring' magazine (again - I can pull out those references if you want?) More recently the move featured in Jack Parker's 52 MEMORIES book. It is also in the new John Guastaferro book called ONE DEGREE.

4) THE CHARLIE MILLER FACE UP BOTTOM DEAL can be found in the booklet called AN EVENING WITH CHARLIE MILLER. An issue of THE CRIMP magazine was devoted to it as well. The move was also featured in Gene Maze's THE ART OF BOTTOM DEALING. The best place to learn it is COMBINED CARD SESSIONS by Peter Kane since it is taught in the context of an ace assembly called CLASSIC ACE ASSEMBLY which is the best ace assembly in print...

5) THE BILIS SPREAD was created by Bernard Bilis and published in FRENCH PASTEBOARDS (edited by Mike Caveney). It must have been published elsewhere but I can't think of any other sources at the moment. By the way - the move that Jonathan mentions above is very similar...

Another great move I like is the JS COUNT which Jim Swain published in DON'T BLINK. It is a lovely alternative to the GEMINI COUNT which may even fool you as you play with it...

All the best,

Joe

PS Ian - Armando Lucero uses a Curry Turnover type sleight in his famous 'Empanada' effect...
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Postby El Mystico » 09/09/10 11:13 AM

I found it really hard to learn Trigger from the description in the book; and I think one of the illustrations gets an award for being one of the most unhelpful magic illustrations I've seen! (Sorry, Julia)

I only 'got' the move (I think I've got it...) from reading the effects, and working out what it was meant to achieve.
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Postby Jim Maloney » 09/09/10 11:36 AM

"Firstly - The BILIS SPREAD doesn't involve anything that could be called a turnover. As such - I think David Ben's may be different. But I haven't confirmed this yet..."

Ok, I'm thinking of a different Bilis move then. There is a move that they both invented independent of each other (this is something I confirmed a few years back) that achieves a similar end, but where the spread of cards is turned over in the process. I believe both of them use it as part of their Open Travelers routines.

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Postby Joe Mckay » 09/10/10 12:41 PM

For those interested in TRIGGER you should check out CARD COMPULSIONS by Peter Duffie. There is a great trick in there (a version of the 'Hofzinser Ace Problem') which uses it. At the back of the book there is also a variation on the TRIGGER move which is both easier to do and more deceptive...

Joe
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Postby El Mystico » 09/10/10 02:08 PM

Sorry - I'm struggling to see what is the Trigger variant...maybe because I didnt understand it properly in the first place!
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Postby Joe Mckay » 09/10/10 02:17 PM

The move I am thinking of is P.O.U.S which can be found on Page 266 of CARD COMPULSIONS. There is a similar move called P.A.U.S in the book APPLICATIONS.

I think both moves could be thought of as different ways of achieving what TRIGGER achieves...

All the best,

Joe
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Postby El Mystico » 09/10/10 02:45 PM

Joe

thank you; but I may be missing something...

I think the original Trigger description might benefit from a reference to the Carlyle Paddle Move.

but - POUS is a palm - but I don't think Trigger is...so I'm struggling to see how POUS is a variant of Trigger...
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Postby Paul Gordon » 09/10/10 03:32 PM

Dear Harry (Lorayne),

I didn't think the/your HaLo Cut was overlooked...I use it a lot as do MANY cardmen I know...It's a gem.

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Postby Joe Mckay » 09/10/10 03:43 PM

Hi ElMystico,

I hear what you are saying. And you are correct. However - the move in APPLICATIONS (P.A.U.S) is essentailly the same except that cards are secretly added - instead of removed. Now - this is very different from TRIGGER - except that the end result in all these cases is very similar. ie - we have created the illusion of turning the deck over.

In the case of adding cards - you would be adding face up cards. And in the case of removing cards - you would be removing face down cards to reveal the face up card(s) underneath. This is in order to give the illusion of turing a face down deck face up...

I hope the above isn't too confusing since my description is a little messy!

Anyway - I totally agree about the reference to the Carlyle Turnover. It definitely helps understand the original TRIGGER move description...

All the best,

Joe
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Postby pduffie » 09/11/10 06:39 AM

PAUS (and POUS which is simply PAUS in reverse) was inspired by the Carlyle Turnover. After I had developed the move I noted that "it is not unlike Roy Walton's Trigger in appearance."

Re- Carlyle Turnover: Douglas Dexter published the move 12 years before Francis Carlyle,

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Postby Q. Kumber » 09/11/10 09:42 AM

Not by any stretch of the imagination could I be referred to as a card guy, but I am intrugued by refereneces to the TRIGGER move, which it seems, even if you learn it, you can't remember how to do it.

I'm reminded by advice given to me by Eric Sharp when I was eighteeen: "Don't waste time learning a trick, which if you don't do for a month, you have to relearn it."

There are some tricks and moves that need to be used almost daily to guarantee proficiency.

I'm also talking in the context of magicians who perform for audiences, as opposed to jam sessions with their peers.
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Postby Paul Gordon » 09/11/10 10:00 AM

Hi Quentin,

Well, over the last 35 years I have learnt hundreds of card sleights. But, when I recently reviewed my arsenal of sleights regularly used, it amounts to about a mere 40.

As I'm sure you know, some sleights suit our persona/style/pace, some don't. Some are practiced and never used and some are too bizarre to practice in the first place.

I learnt Trigger (eventually) and then never used it. I'm not saying it's bad, but it's not my style. And, as I'm an impromptu performer who works mostly standing and surrounded, I don't use lapping or angly sleights. And, as I have small hands, I can't do decent centre/bottom deals...so I don't do them at all.

Oh yes, one of the hardest sleights I do well is Jennings' One-Hand Bottom Palm...and I never use it! Oh well...

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Postby Harry Lorayne » 09/11/10 10:46 AM

Hi Paul: I meant overlooked in THIS thread. H.
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Postby Justin Wheatley » 09/20/10 07:22 PM

The one that immediately comes to mind for me is a Meir Yedid card production from (I think) Cardworks, where the cards shoots out from the deck. It's quite easy, and fun to use as a secret maneuver as well as an open one.

There are others, I'm sure...
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 09/20/10 08:17 PM

No love for my Second-From-The-Top Palm from Card Finesse? I guess it really is overlooked. It's quite handy and pretty easy to do.
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Postby Philippe Billot » 09/21/10 03:53 AM

Yes, it is!
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Postby Glenn Bishop » 09/21/10 09:09 AM

The Triumph shuffle.

The shuffle not the trick.

Cheers!
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