How many books/DVDs do you own

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.

Postby Paul Gordon » 09/07/10 03:01 PM

All of the 32 titles I have published since 1992 are ISBN'd and one was barcoded. The ISBN was/is well worth it.

Paul Gordon (Natzler Enterprises)
Secure Online Magic Shop: http://www.paulgordon.net/shop.html
Paul Gordon
 
Posts: 340
Joined: 05/01/08 01:45 PM
Location: UK

Postby asdf » 09/15/10 11:38 PM

Sorry for the later reply, I wasn't able to before.

Thanks every everyone! Keep it coming, how many books/DVDs do you have?
asdf
 
Posts: 50
Joined: 06/29/10 03:43 AM

Postby Andrew Pinard » 09/16/10 07:53 AM

Magic Books? 2,600+
Magic Periodicals? 10K+
Magic DVDs? Less than 100 (and getting rid of more everyday)...

Of course, I have a problem (sagging floors ;O)

ajp
User avatar
Andrew Pinard
 
Posts: 334
Joined: 03/13/08 11:13 AM

Postby Glenn Bishop » 09/16/10 08:35 AM

Magic books about 80.
DVD's less than 20.

How many magic books have I written? I have written 8 books and produced 9 DVD's.

I also don't practice magic - I own a magic practice.

Cheers!
Glenn Bishop
 
Posts: 650
Joined: 03/14/08 10:52 AM

Postby mrgoat » 09/16/10 03:08 PM

I can't see anyone asking for information about how many books anyone has published. Although I am sure the willy waving is being enjoyed by those doing it.
User avatar
mrgoat
 
Posts: 4261
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Brighton, UK

Postby Glenn Bishop » 09/16/10 03:35 PM

I think that only you can answer your question about Erdnase - asdf.

Me I like my copy of Revelations that I got in the 80's. This is Erdnase with Dai Vernon's comments. It is a book that I enjoy reading and re-reading.

The Erdnase 12 card stock has inspired 6 different routines that I use in my own work. Three of those routines I have published however I am not going to say where because it might upset one or two trolls.

The section in the front that writes about the Grismer cull is a valuable to me as the section in the back that talks about the Stevens cull and block transfer work.

Vernon also gives good advice through the book and in my opinion the book is filled with hidden gems. I find value and insperation however you might have to pick up the book and read it and see if the ideas in it work for you.

Just a few thoughts and opinion and I hope this helps.

Cheers!
Glenn Bishop
 
Posts: 650
Joined: 03/14/08 10:52 AM

Postby Brian Morton » 09/16/10 09:29 PM

"You've been doing magic for four years and you only have two books?"

Richard, if I spent my first four years in magic with just Erdnase and Expert Card Technique, I think I'd probably be a helluva better magician than I am now.

brian :grin:
User avatar
Brian Morton
 
Posts: 387
Joined: 03/12/08 11:43 AM
Location: Bawlamer, Merlin

Postby Richard Kaufman » 09/16/10 10:03 PM

I don't agree at all.
Knowledge is power.
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine
User avatar
Richard Kaufman
 
Posts: 21634
Joined: 07/18/01 12:00 PM
Location: Washington DC

Postby Pete McCabe » 09/16/10 10:17 PM

A study was recently published about a novel approach to improving student performance in school. The idea was to pay students for their performance, to see if 1) it works; and 2) it costs less per unit of improvement than any/all of the things we currently spend so much money on, most of which have fairly modest returns.

They tried several different models. In one the students got a check with their report card. In another they earned money for each test score.

The one that worked best: pay students to read books. A student would read a book, and after they pass a test to verify they had actually read it, they were paid. This one produced the greatest improvement, both in raw scores and in points-per-dollar-spent.


asdf: Start with Card College. Save Erdnase for later.
Pete McCabe
 
Posts: 2095
Joined: 01/18/08 01:00 PM
Location: Simi Valley, CA

Postby asdf » 09/16/10 10:56 PM

Thanks everyone!
I'm just wondering, how can you guys have so many books. Did you read, and master everything in them? I would like to know how many books others have also.
@Glenn Bishop Just curious, what can a 12 card stock do for magic, other than like spelling tricks? I want to learn the stevens cull. It's in the revelations book, right? How hard is it? Harder than bottom dealing? I heard that it is very hard.
@Pete McCabe That's interesting :). I already have studied Erdnase for a few months, so I already know some of it, and I didn't want to go to Card College, because I thought that most of it would be review, but then I decided to buy, after many good recommendations, and I was very happy with it. Even though some of it was review, it's worth it, because of the tips, I learned new things, and etc. And I will now buy all of the volumes even the first ones, which litterally almost everything will be review (I read the table of contents this time :P), but I will have it as a reference, I will have tips, and etc.
Any more suggestions, comments, tips, or answers?
Thanks again everyone!
RZ
asdf
 
Posts: 50
Joined: 06/29/10 03:43 AM

Postby asdf » 09/16/10 11:12 PM

I have one question that I've asked many times, but never really got an answer, even though I like learning and practicing new moves, why learn them? They are never used. Darwin Ortiz's tricks are amazing, but what would be more entertaning to a lay audience a Darwin Ortiz trick, or a simple David Blaine double lift trick (if both are performed correctly)? I know so many tricks, using so many complicated stuff, but if someone comes up to me, and asks me to do a trick to them, what will I do? Probably a simple (and of course very easy) Biddle Trick, or maybe an ACR and then probably triumph. The best tricks that I have are probably in "Born to Perform Card Magic", and they are so simple. After doing these tricks, I would then do something involving palming. All of the more complicated tricks are just not as good. Why get into so much theory if you're not going to cheat at cards? Like Harry Lorrayne says, "you can do miracles with a deck of cards with only a good control, double lift and palm", and the audience goes crazy with these simple tricks, but with the more complicated, less or equal (of course sometimes more, but usually not). So why don't we just do simple tricks and amaze people even though they are so simple, like David Blaine, instead of harder and less effective or just as good tricks?
Maybe the more complicated ones that I learned just don't fit my style? Or maybe they're just not as good.
What do think? Why should you learn so many complicated stuff, when you can AMAZE people with just a double lift, and biddle trick, ACR, and etc with amazing simple tricks which are better than a lot of the more complicated ones?
Thanks!
RZ.
asdf
 
Posts: 50
Joined: 06/29/10 03:43 AM

Postby Richard Perrin » 09/17/10 12:04 AM

Steve Beam told me to buy a book "Royal Road To Card Magic" 28 years ago and I said the same thing to you, asdf.
Richard Perrin
 
Posts: 324
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Grovetown, Georgia

Postby asdf » 09/17/10 12:34 AM

"Steve Beam told me to buy a book "Royal Road To Card Magic" 28 years ago and I said the same thing to you, asdf."
Thank you! But I think that even though Card College is worth it even though most of it is review, I don't know the same things is with RRTCM. I think that most of the things in it (if not all, except for the tricks), are in Card College. And I am teaching a friend all of the contents in RRTCM so I think that I already know all of it. That is great advice for a complete beginner, but I don't think that I still consider myself a complete beginner.
Thanks again!
RZ.
asdf
 
Posts: 50
Joined: 06/29/10 03:43 AM

Postby Richard Perrin » 09/17/10 01:07 AM

You're welcome.
Richard Perrin
 
Posts: 324
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Grovetown, Georgia

Postby John Wilson » 09/17/10 04:30 AM

The idea is that you look at as many controls, palms, and routines as you can to find the right one for you. I love to learn new controls, even though I mostly use a classic pass that I learned from Royal Road and several other sources (even though when I first saw the description I thought it was impossible). The idea is to constantly struggle to improve yourself. There are situations when a different control will work better or seem more natural and that is when the new technique should be adopted. Lately, my focus has become removing sleights and technique of a mechanical variety altogether in favor of the real meat of magic, which I think is controlling the perception of another person and leading them to illogical conclusions through very simple means. Part of me feels better the simpler those means are.
John Wilson
 
Posts: 98
Joined: 06/23/08 07:43 PM

Postby Glenn Bishop » 09/17/10 07:07 AM

The question is - @Glenn Bishop Just curious, what can a 12 card stock do for magic, other than like spelling tricks?
............

G.B. I don't use the Erdnase 12 card stock technique - however the idea inspired 6 different poker deals that I do use in my own work.


The question is - I want to learn the stevens cull. It's in the revelations book, right? How hard is it? Harder than bottom dealing? I heard that it is very hard.
............

G.B. I have no idea how fast a student can learn something like the Steven's cull. It depends on the student and how much time they put into it I guess.

Here is my opinion about magic - you may or may not agree with it. If a student wants to learn card tricks - I would suggest they learn the basic stuff first. The force, palm, control, change. I think that Matt Schulien said - if a magician can force - palm control and change a card then they can do more card tricks than anyone would want to watch.

Then once the basic stuff is learned then get out and do magic for people make a few performance mistakes and learn from them.

Don't be one of those guy's that hide away in their home and learn card moves and techniques and never get out and do them.

Expert at the card table is "one" good reference book but there are a lot of other great books - Harry Lorayne's close up card magic for one. A good part of it depends on what the student wants to do - and what they want to learn. Be a good entertainer or be a good technical guy.

Or both.

Good luck in finding and learning the kind of magic that you enjoy.

Just a few more thoughts and opinion.

Cheers!
Glenn Bishop
 
Posts: 650
Joined: 03/14/08 10:52 AM

Postby Andrew Pinard » 09/17/10 07:55 AM

To reply to asdf ("I'm just wondering, how can you guys have so many books. Did you read, and master everything in them? I would like to know how many books others have also."):

I have read each title at least once. In my case, the library was amassed over the last twenty-plus years and is a working one for research purposes (I should mention that I have amassed several thousands of other books, both fiction and nonfiction that continue to influence my growth as a performer.

Of the magic books I own, I perform material professionally derived specifically from a few dozen of them, but that material has been influenced by hundreds of other sources, whether it be presentation, methodology or stylistic approach.

That being said, owning a large library does not make you a better performer. In my experience, performing frequently, constant thoughtful review of your work and development and application of a specific performing persona all lead to regular work.

Having a book is only of value if you thoughtfully consider the perspective and material and put it into practice...
User avatar
Andrew Pinard
 
Posts: 334
Joined: 03/13/08 11:13 AM

Postby Pete McCabe » 09/17/10 10:14 AM

asdf: I'm just wondering, how can you guys have so many books.

I'm 50 years old. I've been reading books for a long time.

This isn't just me being flip. But I think you said you are 14 or thereabouts, and when you're that age it's almost impossible to appreciate how much you can accomplish if you work at it for a decade or so. It sounds like you are on a wonderful pathwhen you are 30, if you haven't dropped out of magic for 10 years like I did, you will be amazed at how many books you have.

By the way, you mentioned that you are teaching a friend RRtCM. Keep this up! As a teacher, I can tell you that the best way to learn something is to teach it to someone else.
Pete McCabe
 
Posts: 2095
Joined: 01/18/08 01:00 PM
Location: Simi Valley, CA

Postby Richard Kaufman » 09/17/10 11:36 AM

The more sleights you learn, the more tools you have to do the job (just like a plumber).

You need to learn about 20 killer tricks and how to present the hell out of them. It may take you 200 books to find those 20 tricks.

Or you can just read Stars of Magic.
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine
User avatar
Richard Kaufman
 
Posts: 21634
Joined: 07/18/01 12:00 PM
Location: Washington DC

Postby Glenn Bishop » 09/17/10 11:50 AM

This is just my opinion and it is not going to be a popular one. It is better to know one trick without any sleights and be able to perform it well.

Then 50 tricks with sleights that a person is not able to do well or not at all.

Harry Lorayne's Lazy Man's Card trick and Paul Curry's Out of this world are two great tricks that require no moves or sleights at all. But if they are presented well - they are both great magic tricks.

Sleights are only secondary and are only needed to get from point A to point B in a magic trick. The "effect" the trick has on an audience is what important.

It is not the trip it is the destination.

Just a few thoughts and opinion.

Cheers!
Glenn Bishop
 
Posts: 650
Joined: 03/14/08 10:52 AM

Postby asdf » 09/17/10 12:24 PM

"The idea is that you look at as many controls, palms, and routines as you can to find the right one for you. I love to learn new controls, even though I mostly use a classic pass that I learned from Royal Road and several other sources (even though when I first saw the description I thought it was impossible). The idea is to constantly struggle to improve yourself. There are situations when a different control will work better or seem more natural and that is when the new technique should be adopted. Lately, my focus has become removing sleights and technique of a mechanical variety altogether in favor of the real meat of magic, which I think is controlling the perception of another person and leading them to illogical conclusions through very simple means. Part of me feels better the simpler those means are."
But why for example learn so many passes from Erdnase, or even mucks? I was at a Dan and Dave lecture, and I was practicing the mcmillan turnover switch, and Lee Asher was there also (I think it was him anyway, lol, but he was supposed to be there, so it probably was him), and he was like Oh the mcmillan switch these moves are just for fun, but they are never used, and then I asked him why, and told me that there are so many other things to use, like a top change, a double lift, etc etc etc. When would you use it? It's just for fun really, and it is a fun switch :P. But also what I was asking, David Blaine can entertain and amaze aundiences, and his tricks are so simple, and if you can amaze people so much, and do hundreds of tricks with a double lift, a palm and a control, why do you need anything else?
Thanks!
RZ.
asdf
 
Posts: 50
Joined: 06/29/10 03:43 AM

Postby asdf » 09/17/10 12:28 PM

I have to go now, I will reply to the other once later today :)
asdf
 
Posts: 50
Joined: 06/29/10 03:43 AM

Postby John Wilson » 09/17/10 01:12 PM

There are some moves that I practice just for fun, but there is always the possibility that I will find a use for them later. I like to practice and if I only practiced the few sleights that I actually use when performing, practicing would become a bore.
John Wilson
 
Posts: 98
Joined: 06/23/08 07:43 PM

Postby asdf » 09/17/10 04:03 PM

"I have no idea how fast a student can learn something like the Steven's cull. It depends on the student and how much time they put into it I guess." How hard was it for you, not how much time, but what would it be compared to?

"Here is my opinion about magic - you may or may not agree with it. If a student wants to learn card tricks - I would suggest they learn the basic stuff first. The force, palm, control, change. I think that Matt Schulien said - if a magician can force - palm control and change a card then they can do more card tricks than anyone would want to watch." Exactly what I think. So why do you need any more than just that?

@Andrew Pinard Ohh, but wow, you have a lot of books, good job :).
@Pete McCabe That's true, and in a decade I can't imagine how much you can learn/have in books. And it is true, you do learn it better after you teach, even if you already know it, and I like teaching it.
@Richard Kaufman "The more sleights you learn, the more tools you have to do the job (just like a plumber)." What if you only know 3 sleights, a double lift, a control, and a force, and can amaze your audience with only them. The audience doesn't care how you do it, only what the result is, and if something can be so effective, and so simple, why not just use that?
"You need to learn about 20 killer tricks and how to present the hell out of them. It may take you 200 books to find those 20 tricks.

Or you can just read Stars of Magic."
I only know like 5 killer tricks that fit my style, that I get great reactions from, and that I really like :(. Stars of Magic is for sure on my list on books to buy :).
@Glenn Bishop "Sleights are only secondary and are only needed to get from point A to point B in a magic trick. The "effect" the trick has on an audience is what important.

It is not the trip it is the destination."
Exactly what I have been saying, and that is exactly one of my questions, the effect can be very simple, and very effective, so why isn't it?
@John Wilson"There are some moves that I practice just for fun, but there is always the possibility that I will find a use for them later. I like to practice and if I only practiced the few sleights that I actually use when performing, practicing would become a bore." We practice some moves just for fun (no use for the move), but what about the tricks, a lot of the simple once are so good, so why go to the more complicated ones?
Thanks everyone that's been helping me!
RZ.
asdf
 
Posts: 50
Joined: 06/29/10 03:43 AM

Postby Richard Kaufman » 09/17/10 04:44 PM

At 14, you can't possibly comprehend the reasons for all the good advice we're giving you. Don't take that the wrong way--just understand that we know more becasue we've been doing this a lot longer and have already gone what you're going through.

If you're satisfied with being able to do only three sleights, fine. You'll never grow beyond what you can do now, or with those three sleights. It's not my cup of tea.
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine
User avatar
Richard Kaufman
 
Posts: 21634
Joined: 07/18/01 12:00 PM
Location: Washington DC

Postby Brad Henderson » 09/17/10 05:04 PM

"David Blaine can entertain and amaze aundiences, and his tricks are so simple, and if you can amaze people so much, and do hundreds of tricks with a double lift, a palm and a control, why do you need anything else?"

You left out the camera crew, the multiple takes to find an audience who IS entertained, and the editing bay.

"What if you only know 3 sleights, a double lift, a control, and a force, and can amaze your audience with only them. The audience doesn't care how you do it, only what the result is, and if something can be so effective, and so simple, why not just use that?"

Because, in the real world, stuff happens. Cards drop. Spectators know more than you expect. Timing isn't perfect. A pro cannot afford to fail.

Moreover, think of it from the perspective of a musician. As an instrumentalist one practices etudes and exercises that go well beyond what one normally encounters in the average "song."

The stronger you are, the more facile you are, the better you will be.

Then, think of artists like Oscar Peterson. He could do things with his instrument that few could imagine - but more importantly, he did musical things with his instrument that no one else could. He expanded his audiences perception of what was possible.

Of course, Miles could do that with a single well played note - but never forget, Miles could play anything he wanted. and because of that, he could choose to just play 'one.'
Brad Henderson
 
Posts: 2703
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: austin, tx

Postby Andrew Pinard » 09/17/10 05:16 PM

[Reflecting upon how I would have loved to be getting such advice from top performers/writers/creators in the field when I was fourteen.]

Don't take this advice for granted and stop short of your potential... Any performance art is about the long exploration. Think what we would be missing had Columbus stopped at the next port of call as it was "far enough"...

It is great to have opinions, it is even better to be open to changing your opinions.

Enjoy the ride!
User avatar
Andrew Pinard
 
Posts: 334
Joined: 03/13/08 11:13 AM

Postby asdf » 09/17/10 05:17 PM

"At 14, you can't possibly comprehend the reasons for all the good advice we're giving you. Don't take that the wrong way--just understand that we know more becasue we've been doing this a lot longer and have already gone what you're going through." Yes, for sure, you're all probably more experienced than I am, and that's one of the reasons that I am taking your advice :).

"If you're satisfied with being able to do only three sleights, fine. You'll never grow beyond what you can do now, or with those three sleights. It's not my cup of tea." Not at all, I enjoy learning new sleights, but I also enjoy result, which I am not getting as I learn new sleights. I will list some of my favourite tricks that I show lay people when I want to impress them, and you will see what I mean:
The Biddle Trick
Triumph
Card to Mouth
2 Card Monte
Ambitious Card Routine
The Stop Trick (Card College Volume 4, page 910)
Design for laughter (From the RRTCM)
Search and Destroy by Aaron Fisher
The trick from Erdnase that you are blind folded, and stab the chosen card
And a trick from Darwin Ortiz, I forget what the name is.

Do any of them require any skill? Not really a lot. What do they use? The biddle move, a zarrow shuffle, a card switch, and a glide. The only one that requires more is Darwin Ortiz's trick, it requires a second deal, and a push through shuffle, and the other ones are just as good (for my style at least). Do you see what I mean? I do enjoy practicing, and learning new sleights, but none of the tricks that I actually really like and perform use any of them, and if I do, they are just as good as the simple ones. So I like practice, but I don't like seeing no result out of practice, if when I am actually showing a trick, I only use stuff that I learned a long time ago, and if I do use the new stuff that I learn, the tricks are just not as strong as the ones that I listed above (or equal). So I don't really find very strong tricks like the ones listed above using the new sleights that I am learning for some reason.
Thank you!
RZ
asdf
 
Posts: 50
Joined: 06/29/10 03:43 AM

Postby asdf » 09/17/10 05:37 PM

"You left out the camera crew, the multiple takes to find an audience who IS entertained, and the editing bay." LOL, that's funny, but is that actually true, they keep trying to find an audience like that?

"Because, in the real world, stuff happens. Cards drop. Spectators know more than you expect. Timing isn't perfect. A pro cannot afford to fail." Yes, that true, that's one thing that knowing more sleights helps me.
asdf
 
Posts: 50
Joined: 06/29/10 03:43 AM

Postby asdf » 09/17/10 05:40 PM

"[Reflecting upon how I would have loved to be getting such advice from top performers/writers/creators in the field when I was fourteen.]" Yes, I appreaciate everyone's help, and thank you everyone for helping me out, and answering my question :).
Thanks for you advice Andrew!
RZ.
asdf
 
Posts: 50
Joined: 06/29/10 03:43 AM

Postby asdf » 09/20/10 12:28 AM

When I was checking to see if I had any new reply another (of the million) question(s) popped into my mind: Let`s say someone has tons of great tricks, how would he know when to show each? Someone asked him to see a trick. He is at a restaurant showing tricks. Etc. Would he always show the strongest first? Should he do a quick one that has a big effect on the audience, or a long routine that is also amazing, and has a big effect on the audience? If he would only show two, should it be the two strongest ones? If he will show 10 tricks, should the strongest ones be first or last? Or both?
Thanks again everybody!
RZ.
asdf
 
Posts: 50
Joined: 06/29/10 03:43 AM

Postby John Wilson » 09/20/10 04:45 PM

If I find that a trick is weak, I look for ways to improve it or find new material. There are some that play better than others with different audiences, but I keep my effects very direct. When asked to perform I just decide what type of effect will be the best for that situation.
John Wilson
 
Posts: 98
Joined: 06/23/08 07:43 PM

Postby Glenn Bishop » 09/21/10 11:40 AM

Here are a few thoughts about putting together a magic routine. I look at routining an act like stringing a handful of beads. Each bead is a routine. The most important part is the string - the string is the performer and the personality of the performer.

I make out a list - I want a strong beginning - a strong middle and a strong closer.

My close up show runs like this - I open with the chop dice cup - this is quick - draws them in and has a quick strong climax. Then card tricks - closing the card section strong with the cards to wallet - then matrix. This is a bridge to bring in other magic - coins and cards - then ring on a stick, Different and strong.

Then the shell game - this is a bridge again to bring the subject of magic into the subject of street cons and gambling. Then the deck comes out again and I do one or two strong poker deals (often with the punch deck) - then I close the gambling part with three card monte.

Then I do the cups and balls with loads as a closer. There are other magic tricks I can add if I want to fill in more time - sponge balls - die Namic diamonds - coins and anvil in hat - other things each strong and can have a place.

When I do magic I want to do strong magic routines - however making that connection to draw them in - and using humor and getting laughs and making it a fun time is a very important part to entertaining modern audiences.

Just a few thoughts and opinion.

Cheers!
Glenn Bishop
 
Posts: 650
Joined: 03/14/08 10:52 AM

Postby asdf » 09/21/10 04:23 PM

Thanks guys!
I see, start with a quick one to draw them in, then just flow through all of the routines, and then end with a very strong one. Something that I have noticed is that a lot of magicians close with a cups and balls routine, why? But also, magicians do specific tricks in (for example) interviews, why choose that specific one? Or in a bar, or at school, how do you know what fits better where?

Also, today I was showing a trick to a guy, and he was like "Oh I saw that break", but I actually used a jog, so I know that he was just saying that to make him look better in front of the other people, and then I showed him another one, and he was like oh I know how you did it, I saw a tutorial of that on YouTube, I ignored, and changed subjects. In the end I asked him if he really knew, and how, and he said that he forgot. This is not the first guy that I've shown tricks to, that has seen a few tutorials on YouTube, and thinks that he knows everything in magic. So I wanted to know how you guys would deal with this type of people? Show more advanced tricks him? Leave him, and show other people tricks? Or something else? What would you do? Maybe I can learn from your experience. Also, what do you do when you actually do get caught?
Sorry for asking so many questions in one thread, I have no body else to ask :(, and I won't make 527 new threads :P.
asdf
 
Posts: 50
Joined: 06/29/10 03:43 AM

Postby Richard Kaufman » 09/21/10 05:14 PM

You have to be better than any dope they've watched on YouTube! That's why you need to learn lots of different sleights, so you have different tools to do the same job.
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine
User avatar
Richard Kaufman
 
Posts: 21634
Joined: 07/18/01 12:00 PM
Location: Washington DC

Postby asdf » 09/21/10 06:59 PM

"You have to be better than any dope they've watched on YouTube! That's why you need to learn lots of different sleights, so you have different tools to do the same job" But how does knowing other sleights help with that? If the person knows, and saw a tutorial of triumph on YouTube, then they know the trick, if I use a push through instead of a zarrow, and they only know about the zarrow, won't they think that I used a zarrow? Also, how should you actually deal with the person presentation-wise, what should you do if they know a trick that you showed them (or just say that they do)? Should you just ignore, and move on to the next person?
Another guy that I did it to, was not a layman, he watched so many tutorials on YouTube, and even though he did it badly (because of YouTube), he did know some stuff, so everything I did, he looked at it with different eyes, and was trying to figure out everything I did. Should I even show tricks to these people? I usually show more advanced ones to them, but the first few tricks that I show them, I assume that they are laymen, and do some things that they might already know, is that why you need more sleights? To deal with situations like this. So what would you do, and what are your thoughts on this?
Thank you!
RZ.
asdf
 
Posts: 50
Joined: 06/29/10 03:43 AM

Postby Gordolini » 09/21/10 10:29 PM

Regarding your first question on why learn different sleights - yes, different techniques can be used that may lead to the same outcome, but your execution may be better depending on the sleights chosen. Perhaps your push through or Zarrow needs more refinement in execution. There are many resources available that demonstrate or teach these shuffles. There are also many methods of doing a trick, such as Triumph, using a fair looking or normal shuffle and spectators that are looking for a false shuffle may be fooled.
Gordolini
 
Posts: 111
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Louisville, KY

Postby asdf » 09/27/10 07:09 PM

Sorry for the late replies, my computer is broken, so I have to answer from my phone, which is harder, and sorry if my grammar is a bit hard to understand, I'll try not to though.
So, I agree that you should learn as many false shuffles, controls, and etc, but what about false dealing for example, it is rarely used in magic, and I practiced it so much. I am learning and mastering every sleight and most of the tricks in card college, but I don't find most of the tricks amazing. Maybe card college is just a card magic course, but doesn't have the best tricks? Most of them don't compare to any of the ones that I listed above. But I want to go a step further, and learn stronger tricks than the ones listed above, but where? Stars of magic? Will I learn much stronger tricks there, and use the sleights that i know?Where else can I learn stronger tricks?

I made up a trick, that uses a not so easy sleights, and I think that I get more reaction on my trick, than the ones listed above, so more sleights also help make up your own tricks?

Here's another question: Do the stronger tricks than the ones listed above usually use more, and not so easy sleights?

Thanks again!
RZ.
asdf
 
Posts: 50
Joined: 06/29/10 03:43 AM

Postby Gordolini » 09/27/10 11:18 PM

As mentioned earlier, one of the "strongest" card tricks is "Out of this World" and generally this trick requires minimal handling (yet a book can and has been written exploring this plot and various methods).

Perhaps you need to ask yourself what makes a trick strong? Who is your audience? Does the trick have an easy to follow plot? Impossible outcome? New twist to the outcome? Shocking outcome? Execution of sleights not suspected because of superb execution and/or great misdirection? Unsuspected use of a gaff card or a stacked deck? Are some tricks stronger by the style and presentation of the performer? Does cardistry amaze or hinder? Can eliminating a difficult sleight improve the trick?

You will find similar and different opinions as you read more books, watch dvds and see experienced performers. Enjoy the ride.
Gordolini
 
Posts: 111
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Louisville, KY

Postby John Wilson » 09/28/10 02:25 AM

I, personally, use a strike second deal quite often in performance. It is not something that I consider difficult any more. I think it is a very direct and powerful method. I know that not everyone uses it, but I am comfortable with it. I also use bottom deals on occasion, but only with gambling related effects. I feel comfortable using this as well within the context of the effect.

When I think of obscure moves, a lot of times they are ones that other people use that I shy away from while others tend to shy away from the methods I prefer. I still enjoy knowing and working to perfect certain moves, whether I use them or not. The reason for this can only be seen when a particular effect is desired from a particular position of the deck that would make it less natural for one to switch grips or adjust in some other way. At those moments in the development of an effect having a wide arsenal is of particular interest. Or especially in a disaster and a nonstandard move is required.

If I am feeling especially "jazzy" I will invent a new effect on the spot often using the first methods that come to mind. These moments have been my most rewarding in performance, using the knowledge that I have acquired over the years to solve a brand new challenge. There is no way that I could have prepared for these moments without practicing moves I never thought I would use. There is probably also no way that I could have explained to my younger self that that is a good reason to practice different techniques. I say just stick with it and eventually you will understand. Just my opinion, but I hope it helps.
John Wilson
 
Posts: 98
Joined: 06/23/08 07:43 PM

Next

Return to Close-Up Magic