The Kenner Myth Vanish???

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Postby Jonathan Levey » 11/02/02 01:31 AM

Fellow friends of the craft,
Does anyone know of Chris Kenners last vanish for his 3 fly routine? The one which everyone raves about, yet apparently hasn't seen....??
Any info on the subject...?
Many thanks,
Jonathan :p
P.S I don't mean the one which is explained in his book (Totaly Out Of Control)during his "menage et trios" routine.........
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Postby Guest » 11/02/02 01:42 AM

Yeah man, I've heard of this apparent totally flawing vanish .. from what ive heard its the stuff of legend ... lol .. id be very interested if ne one could actually define wat the vanish looks like ..

magically,
steven =)
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Postby John Pezzullo » 11/02/02 02:39 AM

Jonathan,

Earlier this year, Three Fly was a topic of discussion on "The Genii Forum". You'll find some information about Chris Kenner's vanish there:

http://geniimagazine.com/forum/cgi-bin/ ... 6;t=000304
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Postby Jonathan Levey » 11/02/02 03:19 AM

Hey John,
Thanks for the reply, I had a look at the link you gave me. There was some good info, but not quite what I was looking for.... The link you gave me was more on the 3 fly effect as a whole... but I am just interested in that one sleight that Kenner is said to have performed....
Anyway, thanks for taking the time to reply....
Regards,
Jonathan
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Postby Guest » 11/02/02 03:24 AM

Thanx John,

but the legendary vanish is apparently a one handed vanish that pretty much doesnt use a pull and can be performed with sleeves up !!!! .. and u r apparently left clean at the end ... now im sure that some of this info is probably unreliable (kinda like chinese whispers) and has been embelished but im still interested as to what the vanish indeed looks like ... neone else got some ideas ????

magically,
steven =)
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Postby Pete Biro » 11/02/02 10:11 AM

Having seen Kenner do his final coin (and the whole routine) several times... standing right in front of him... I have no idea.

He fooled the you know what out of me.

The coin is there... then it is just plain gone.

It is not a dream effect enhanced by storytelling...

I think :eek:
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Postby Guest » 11/02/02 11:17 AM

Originally posted by steven penson:
Thanx John,

but the legendary vanish is apparently a one handed vanish that pretty much doesnt use a pull and can be performed with sleeves up !!!! .. and u r apparently left clean at the end ... now im sure that some of this info is probably unreliable (kinda like chinese whispers) and has been embelished but im still interested as to what the vanish indeed looks like ... neone else got some ideas ????

magically,
steven =)
That info is unreliable and embelished.

What does it look like? Hold a coin in one hand, with a tossing motion upward the coin is gone, competely gone.

Chris apparently is never going to tip it. (There is a few people close to him that know it but they ain't saying anything either).
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 11/02/02 12:46 PM

Kenner's vanish is startling and unbelievable. It looks like others that you've seen with one hand, except his hand is EMPTY afterward. EMPTY.
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Postby Jonathan Levey » 11/02/02 04:16 PM

Richard and Dan,
Thanks for taking the time to reply, sounds like something you gotta see to realy appreciate... Anyway, the last vanish in his "menage et trios" routine is ok, but to me dosn't seem all that convincing, have you guys got any tips, finese or nuances on this particualar sleight?
Regards,
J.Rubel
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Postby Steve V » 11/02/02 07:22 PM

When I talked to Kenner about the vanish he said that he didn't publish it because he didn't think anyone would really do it the same way he does. He changed it in his published version to make it something more usable to the general magic public.
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Postby Jonathan Levey » 11/02/02 10:13 PM

Steve v,
that dosnt really make sense, coz if the vanish is so good and as great as everyone says it is, then why wouldnt people use it?
Everyone would!
J.Rubel
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Postby Guest » 11/02/02 10:21 PM

Originally posted by Jonathan Rubel:
Steve v,
that dosnt really make sense, coz if the vanish is so good and as great as everyone says it is, then why wouldnt people use it?
Everyone would!
J.Rubel
Not really. If the methodology is so involved that it was burdonsom, many people would not do it. Apparently he went to great lengths just to do that last vanish, so much so that Chris felt most people rather not use it because of inconvenience, and he ought to know, since it was his method.

For example, using IT to float small objects is killer magic. Many don't use it because they just don't feel like getting rigged up with it.
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Postby Steve V » 11/03/02 12:04 AM

I think Dan is pretty much right. Kenner said it required more work than most (not all of course) were likely to put into it so he had a method that was obtainable to more people. I didn't push for a more detailed answer I'm afraid but that was the reason given.
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Postby Jonathan Levey » 11/03/02 01:42 AM

Is the vanish like a method of palming, that seems as if it has vanished completely? So from the right viewing point, it looks just as if it has completely vanished. Kind of like the
"curl palm" (I think thats the name).....Which Gary Kurtz uses as his last vanish in his 3fly routine.....
Or is it more like a ditch, kinda like the top pocket vanish, in which he shows it kinda empty and then ditches it to end clean?
Regards,
Jonathan.....
P.S Is there a performance of his routine anywhere?
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Postby Guest » 11/03/02 07:19 AM

The coin is really gone - the end is clean.
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Postby Pete Biro » 11/03/02 04:51 PM

Kenner's coin is molded material, much like mercury, that holds its shape. Then a toe switch causes it to dissolve and disintegrate into a vapor. Each coin cost $400 to make. :D

Seriously, I watched it and have no clue... it just ain't there no more.

:rolleyes:
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Postby Leonard Hevia » 11/06/02 08:35 AM

I think Mr. Kenner might be using the T. Nelson Downs back palm to vanish that last coin. I Believe it's published in Modern Coin Manipulation. ;)
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Postby Guest » 11/06/02 08:47 AM

Originally posted by Leonard Hevia:
I think Mr. Kenner might be...
Think again.

Here is what it looks like...

Go to your mirror and put a coin at your fingertips. That is what it looks like before the vanish.

Now take the coin and openly put it away somewhere, but forget you did that.

Now look at your hand in the mirror. Turn it around so you can see all sides and keep your fingers loose and seperated. Now you have what the vanish looks like after it's done.
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Postby Doug Brewer » 11/06/02 09:35 AM

I just hope the method doesn't use Blu Tak. Hooser and Kenner both were gaga over this stuff in a lot of their older routines. Anyway - I'm not going to worry about this vanish anymore. Let it go, grasshopper. There are many ways to get the last coin over in a clean manner - with careful routining, gimmickry, or combinations thereof, anything is possible. I would not, however, use the published method of Kenner's. You are correct to assume your audience is not stupid. They are being polite. Keep reading, keep researching, and if that doesn't work, you can always email me and ask me personally how I did it (if you care). I did it with routining. Then I said "screw it" and bought Kohler's routine. However, my overall routine (even with the Kohler coin) is slightly different. You are welcome to write to talk with me about it.

DB
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Postby Leonard Hevia » 11/06/02 09:38 AM

Hhmmmm. Can't see anything in the hand? I remember reading Roger Klause's story of this fellow who made a coin vanish with a flesh colored shell in the Roger Klause In Concert text. Very clever. Holdout? Pull? Topit? Sleeving? Loop on coin ala Slydini Ball and Cone? Can he do it without a jacket? Let's think about this before we build a temple to Mr. Kenner. Perhaps that miraculous last coin vanish should be titled "Son of Indian Rope Trick."
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Postby Pete Biro » 11/06/02 09:43 AM

Have you seen the video of the Indian magi doing the rope trick at the beach?

It is a mindblower.

Shows basket, tosses to ground. Holds up coiled rope, tosses into basket. Beats drum, rope goes up about four feet. He picks up basket, sets it down, then rope goes up another 8 feet.

Kid climbs up about 3 or 4 feet. Comes down.

Rope goes limp and drops.

This is BEAUTIFULLY DONE...
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Postby Pete Biro » 11/06/02 09:44 AM

Friend of mine met with Kenner.

Kenner gave him "the coin"... he held it at his fingertips and HE VANISHED!

:eek:
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Postby Pete McCabe » 11/06/02 10:49 AM

Just yesterday I posted Chris Kenner's method. Then I checked this morning the post had vanished! Also I can't find my computer anymore.

BST Daryl had an incredibly clean "thirdfly" vanish. I saw him do it at a convention, and then ten years later at his "ThreeFly III" lecture/workshop I asked him about it and he told me how it was done. Very clever and quite clean. You're holding the coin, and a second later the hand is completely empty. He was wearing a short-sleeved shirt and no jacket at the time.
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Postby Lance Pierce » 11/06/02 11:06 AM

Originally posted by Leonard Hevia:
Hhmmmm. Can't see anything in the hand? I remember reading Roger Klause's story of this fellow who made a coin vanish with a flesh colored shell in the Roger Klause In Concert text. Very clever.
Leonard,

Can you tell me where in the book that is? I remember a bit about a shell that fits over part of a finger for the gypsy thread, but not a shell that would conceal an entire coin.

I guess I should have actually read the book, huh?

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Postby Guest » 11/06/02 12:28 PM

For those of you who just can't stand not knowing how Chris Kenner vanishes the last coin in his 3Fly routine, here's the hottest tip you'll ever get:

The secret is right there in the "Totally Out of Control" book. It's just not found in the "Menage et Trois" explanation, but it IS in the book. If you want it just handed to you, forget it; if you're willing to dig a little and read between the lines (and beneath the surface) you can find it. That's how I found it... all it takes is a VERY thorough read of the material, instead of just skipping through the text as most "magicians" do.

Regards,
Thomas Wayne
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Postby Jonathan Levey » 11/06/02 01:45 PM

Thanks Thomas,
I've got grissom and the CSI team at my house right now, completing forensic tests on my kenner book. Haven't found anything yet, but i'll keep you posted....
Thanks,
Jonathan
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Postby Alpen » 11/06/02 02:21 PM

Another thing to keep in mind, is that when Chris performs, he moves his hands around a lot... And incidentally, in the version that I saw him do, he only used 3 coins :)
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 11/06/02 02:24 PM

Damn, I published the stinking book and I can't find it!
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Postby Pete Biro » 11/06/02 06:19 PM

Hey... the Sanada gimmick would work!!! :genii:
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Postby Pete Biro » 11/06/02 06:19 PM

Ricardo... from which end of zee book are you reading? :D
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Postby Guest » 11/06/02 06:56 PM

Damn, I published the stinking book and I can't find it!
Richard, you must be stuck at the halfway point...TURN THE BOOK AROUND and continue...this should make it easier for you!

Everyone else,
I never felt like one of Kenner's good friends, (friendly with, though) but he was kind enough to show me and teach me the vanish. As I said on the 3fly thread, the best thing about his method, is his follow up effect, also not published, but beautiful.
Anyway, don't kill yourselves thinking of what would meet all the conditions some have listed here. It meets some, but certainly not all! And really, is there any doubt about WHY he didn't publish it? Give me a break! :D
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Postby Jonathan Levey » 11/06/02 07:22 PM

Thomas Wayne,
hey, I have the Kenner book and was wondering if his vanish is located as a secret message of some sort. Or is it like very much visible, and included in one of the routines?
Thanks and regards,
Jonathan
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Postby Ryan Matney » 11/06/02 11:22 PM

Another thing to keep in mind, is that when Chris performs, he moves his hands around a lot... And incidentally, in the version that I saw him do, he only used 3 coins
So maybe he just whacks it over as he waves his hands about. :D

Thomas Wayne,
hey, I have the Kenner book and was wondering if his vanish is located as a secret message of some sort.
Not sure on the vanish, but I think if you read the book backwards you will discover the hidden message revealing the real David Acer died years ago and the elaborate plot devised to cover it up.
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Postby Guest » 11/07/02 01:29 AM

Hi Folks
JP Vallarino (from France) do also a wonderfull vanish at the end of his 3 fly routine.
see ya
arthur
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Postby Leonard Hevia » 11/07/02 08:53 AM

Wait a second Mr. Pierce-you wrote the Klause book. Then my memory failed me-it must have been a piece of string concealed by the shell. My apologies. I love that book. :)
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Postby Michael Dustman » 11/08/02 03:54 PM

Richard:

I remember speaking with Chris when he was in town with Copperfield back in 96 or 97. At the time, he mentioned to me that he was working with you on publishing a new book featuring some stand-up material.

Was I hallucinating, or is this book still have the chance of seeing the light of day.

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Postby Richard Kaufman » 11/08/02 04:19 PM

Chris is VERY busy with his work for David Copperfield, so I can't imagine that he'll find the time to do another book.
An issue of Genii, perhaps ...
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Postby Guest » 11/08/02 04:27 PM

That's too bad. Chris was doing the "intermission" for D.C.'s show back then and his routines were stellar. I'd love to see detailed explainations of his stand-up work. If Genii were to get that exclusive-- WOW!!!
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Postby Pete Biro » 11/08/02 06:55 PM

Neil Lester (Cards by Martin), according to several mojo men at the Magic Castle today, has a brilliant device to vanish the last coin in a 3 Fly type routine. He wasn't there (rained hard here all day and a tree fell in our yard and the roof leaks! Argh!) so I couldn't find out any more about it.
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Postby Guest » 11/08/02 10:50 PM

Lance Pierce- I wanted to ask you a question about the Klause book, which I've had for years, relating to this discussion. My e-mail is blmt@optonline.net

Thanks.
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