More with The Pendragons

Discuss the latest news and rumors in the magic world.

Postby SteveP » 08/10/10 02:51 PM

Raleigh,

I never said what she was doing is right. But until just recently no one ever had an issue with Charlotte. Many of us have been having problems with Jack Moyer for well over 5 years. It's highly unlikely that Jack Moyer is going to come through after all this time. The only reputation Jack Moyer has is one of ripping off people.

The Pendragons have had an impeccable reputation for how long? About 30 years now? I don't think she is just going to throw that away. Like Jonathan posted above, we don't know the whole story.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 08/10/10 03:12 PM

You cannot compare Jack of Snap Illusions and Charlotte. They are entirely different cases since one is a merchant and the other is not. I don't want to see any more of that.
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Postby Raleigh » 08/10/10 03:13 PM

Steve ,

I agree with you that there are two sides to a story . But .... being famed , beautiful and having a respectful reputation for 30 yrs. does not and can not erase her current actions .

I personally don't think Chip Romero a highly respected cruise ship performer and the other two guys ( and there may or not be others ) have any reason to fabricate such a story . I agree let's not jump to the ending , but just because we are talking about Charlotte Pendragon the issue should not be " sugar coated "
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Postby Tabman » 08/10/10 04:42 PM

Tabman wrote:...I was with him when one of his horses took a large purse. He got really nervous and told me he had sold half the horse to five different people. I never did ask him how it turned out....


Well, I couldnt leave it hanging like that so I emailed my old pal and he told me he sold another horse and paid all off. He said he didnt actually sell half ownership in the horses, but half financial interest.

I feel better now. Thanks.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 08/10/10 07:24 PM

All right you chuckleheads: I have banned "Hughdini" and deleted his posts. (I missed one of them the first time.)

I have deleted Jonathan's post, which he should never have had to make in the first place and I apologize for missing one of Hughdini's posts--it should have also been deleted immediately.

Have some damn respect considering the events that have transpired.
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Postby Steve Bryant » 08/10/10 10:05 PM

On a positive note, I received Todd Karr's/Jonathan's Grand Illusion pdf file on CD this week. It looks great, and the contents are fascinating. I haven't read it all, but the chapter on Metamorphosis is most revealing. I also found the essays fascinating. 124 pages, laid out in the format Todd uses for his hardback books.
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Postby mrgoat » 08/11/10 04:10 AM

I bought a rising card from Tom Baxter and it arrived safely and is brilliant.

Just to let you know some people can send you what you pay for.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 08/11/10 10:05 AM

Do not ask about deleted posts or your posts will simply be deleted as well. That said, I will respond in this case: Jonathan was responding to a stupid remark that I deleted. With the original post deleted, Jonathan's post also needed to go. End.
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Postby Tristan » 08/11/10 11:31 AM

A positive resolution:

On August 10, 2010 I was refunded the money I was owed. (See my post earlier in this thread for my story.)

I now consider my personal situation with Charlotte resolved, and no longer see a need to be involved in this situation.

Best, Tristan
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Postby Seuss » 08/11/10 12:07 PM

Great to hear. Nothing better than to see her clear up these issues.
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Postby Doc » 08/11/10 02:27 PM

Tristan wrote:A positive resolution:

On August 10, 2010 I was refunded the money I was owed. (See my post earlier in this thread for my story.)

I now consider my personal situation with Charlotte resolved, and no longer see a need to be involved in this situation.

Best, Tristan


I bet this thread had nothing to do with it. :D
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Postby Doc » 08/11/10 02:32 PM

Raleigh wrote:Steve ,

I agree with you that there are two sides to a story . But .... being famed , beautiful and having a respectful reputation for 30 yrs. does not and can not erase her current actions .

I personally don't think Chip Romero a highly respected cruise ship performer and the other two guys ( and there may or not be others ) have any reason to fabricate such a story . I agree let's not jump to the ending , but just because we are talking about Charlotte Pendragon the issue should not be " sugar coated "


It's called "circling the wagons", Irvin. ;)

(Let the firestorm begin! :D )
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Postby SteveP » 08/11/10 06:36 PM

I don't see that there is going to be a firestorm. It was never implied anywhere in this thread that those guys fabricated a story and nothing that I've posted has been "sugar coated".

Based on Tristan's post, resolutions are starting to happen (as I mentioned they would). I imagine that there will be similar resolutions for everyone involved.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 08/11/10 07:05 PM

There won't be a firestorm because, if things get nasty, I'll just lock the thread. So keep it clean.
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Postby Raleigh » 08/11/10 07:17 PM

Doc ,I agree the wagon's have been circled . Any comments not favorable to the Pendragon's are not welcome here !
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Postby Seuss » 08/11/10 07:41 PM

I don't see it that way at all. Seems civility is key.
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Postby Raleigh » 08/11/10 07:53 PM

Great.
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Postby mrgoat » 08/12/10 03:55 AM

Seuss wrote:I don't see it that way at all. Seems civility is key.


Either that, our being outed on the most respect magic forum.
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Postby West McDonough » 08/21/10 08:42 PM

I have resisted posting because my story is fairly "small potatoes" compared to others, and I'm just not someone who likes to air dirty linen in public. But, at the request of a friend, I have decided to go ahead.

In a nutshell: I wished to learn the Sands of Egypt and a friend recommended I contact Charlotte. I contacted her on January 20th, 2010, and she agreed to sell me the bowl, sand, and full instructions for $200, which she requested I send via Paypal. I did so on the 21st, and notified her both via email and phone that the money had been sent.

A number of times over the next four months I called and emailed to enquire about the package. I received a three different excuses, and eventually stopped getting any response. Around April I started hearing rumors that this had happened to others, so I gave up trying. Eventually I was able to purchase what I needed elsewhere, and I'm not a big one for making scenes.

But I do agree with my friend that if, as it seems, this is a continuing problem that is affecting others, then I should at least add my experience to the warnings. I have no intention of pushing the issue further -- I just want to do what I can to prevent others who can afford it less from losing more.
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Postby CraigMitchell » 08/22/10 09:44 AM

West - if you paid via PayPal ( along with most credit cards ) you are usually covered in the event of non-delivery. Simply file a dispute for non-delivery and you will receive a refund when the merchant in question is unable to provide proof of delivery.
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Postby West McDonough » 08/22/10 09:59 AM

Thanks for the suggestion, Craig. I'll look into it, but my understanding is that has to be done within a fairly short time period and it's now been 8 months. In hindsight I should have filed as you suggest, but I believed the excuses and kept waiting.

I'm over it now -- I'm not going to press it any further and I've already accepted the money as gone. I would never even have said anything if I hadn't seen so many similar things happening to others.
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Postby Seuss » 08/22/10 09:59 AM

paypal requires action within 40 days.
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Postby Doc » 08/22/10 02:07 PM

Seuss wrote:paypal requires action within 40 days.


Greetings Seuss!
PayPal disputes generally must be filed within forty-five days of the payment date.

PayPal asserts that that time frame may be extended for "abusive accounts" but that is bologna.

Snap Illusions always placed their delivery dates well outside the PayPal dispute window to dodge this bullet and PayPal never lifted a finger to extend it for that crowd.

The same with another "abusive account", RNT2

The reason?

Under the PayPal Buyer Protection Plan for the load of people that were skunked by purchases made on eBay, and under their Purchase Protection Plan which applies to all buyers outside of eBay, they would have been forced to cough up the refunds for non-delivery out of their OWN bucket to the extent they exceeded "abusive member's" available balance (which, I imagine, was $0.00 at any given time.)

The legions of people that were screwed by these outfits were left to twist in the wind even though they were definitely the victims of an "abusive account."

You couldn't pour any extended protection coverage on PayPal attributable to this recent "abusive account." ;)
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Postby Magic Newswire » 08/22/10 03:22 PM

For anyone that uses PayPal regularly, you might look into their MasterCard which is tied directly to your PayPal account. You have the Mastercard guarantee as well as what protection PayPal themselves offer as well. Just a thought.
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Postby mrgoat » 08/22/10 07:07 PM

If only "real" people knew how simple it was to chargeback a bogus charge...
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Postby Troy Swezey » 08/24/10 02:15 PM

WOW! This is very interesting. I am glad I stumbled across this and found that I am not the only one she has had nefarious dealings with.
Charlotte and I met on Facebook maybe late 2008 having been a fan for many years and became friendly with each other. She even invited me to see her and Jonathan perform at The Magic Castle early 2009. When she wrote me and said she was moving a couple miles away from me in Las Vegas I was happy to offer assistance to get her information etc and even visited her at her Las Vegas home and helped move some of her things into a storage facility.
In January 2010 she called me on my cell phone saying she was in a bit of a bind and needed to borrow $500 that she could re-pay me in a few weeks time when she returned from a visit to California. Of course I offered to help my friend and I gave her an envelope with the money in the parking lot after her performance at Jeff McBride's Wonderground.
Strangely that was the last I have heard from Charlotte. None of my phone calls or emails have been returned. I was so shocked to have this happen from such a friendly and allegedly spiritual person such as herself as well as someone so much in the public eye. I was just going to chalk it up to 'lesson learned' but if this is a pattern of hers then perhaps someone needs to step up and somehow put an end to it. I mean how many out there have been wronged financially by her? What other shady dealings is she involved in that simply haven't come to light?
Very interesting.
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Postby mrgoat » 08/24/10 02:21 PM

Now *that* is how you do a first post.

Out of the park, as I believe you say on that side of the pond.
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Postby Troy Swezey » 08/24/10 02:47 PM

Thank you MrGoat. I mean I did not want to and was not going to say anything but as my case is obviously not an isolated incident perhaps there is something much deeper going on with her.
I would hate to see how she treats her clients or bookers or managers if this is the way she treats friends and fellow performers.
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Postby Raleigh » 08/24/10 04:23 PM

I hate to say I told you so , but .....
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Postby Ryan Matney » 08/24/10 05:23 PM

You know, she must have financial problems. Jonathan said they were struggling before the split and now she has lost her means of income and must find a new source of money.

Also, did nobody advising that kid about Origami tell him that he could get a brand new one built for just a bit more money?
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Postby SteveP » 08/24/10 06:26 PM

Ryan it was obvious earlier in this thread that she was having financial problems!

My guess was she was trying to sell off everything she could to raise enough money not only to get somewhat financially stable, but get the illusions out of storage.

It's a sad situation to see how this is turning out and hopefully she will just come clean asap and try to work it out with everyone involved.
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Postby Raleigh » 08/24/10 06:51 PM

Steve , I don't think even The Amazing Kreskin could predict what Mrs. Pendragon is or was planning to do with the money she received from these unfortunate individuals .
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Postby Ryan Matney » 08/25/10 05:31 PM

Steve Pellegrino wrote:Ryan it was obvious earlier in this thread that she was having financial problems!


Well, of course. What I was responding to was the previous poster suggesting that she may be involved in other shady dealings, and....well I'm not sure what he was implying. I meant to suggest that it may be nothing more than plain old broke. No money.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 08/25/10 05:38 PM

The people who have given her money for items and not received them are entitled to state that. The rest of us must refrain from making comments regarding alleged criminality or you may find yourself on the wrong end of a lawsuit.
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Postby Troy Swezey » 08/26/10 04:25 AM

To be perfectly clear I did NOT imply anything criminal. The word I used was "shady"
# fly-by-night: (of businesses and businessmen) unscrupulous; "a shady operation"
# louche: of questionable taste or morality; "a louche nightclub"; "a louche painting"
# fishy: not as expected; "there was something fishy about the accident"; "up to some funny business"; "some definitely queer goings-on"; "a shady deal"; "her motives were suspect"; "suspicious behavior"

I am just starting to see a pattern develop here with her and I wonder how much more is going to come out of the woodwork. How many more people trusted her and supported her and tried to help her in her hour of need? I was raised to support friends and family when they needed help. I wonder how much of any of the interviews she has given recently, especially in The Mandala, is true?
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Postby Gary Kosnitzky » 08/26/10 09:31 AM

There are many ways to protect yourself when you buy something.
A handshake and a promise is not one of them.
Why wasn't a Letter of Credit used?
Not reporting this to your credit card company or paypal within 45 days is just plain negligent.
No, don't beware of Charlotte Pendragon, beware of everyone.
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Postby West McDonough » 08/26/10 12:12 PM

And yet I still use a handshake and a promise sometimes -- perhaps I'm naive, but such things are sacrosanct for me and I tend to give the benefit of the doubt to others at first. In this case, I was dealing with someone who had been recommended by a friend, and I wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt (and a little extra time) because I thought she'd had a rough time lately and I felt sorry for her. I suspect others did the same, and the only reason I posted in the first place was to add my data to the accumulation of evidence that, in the case of Charlotte Pendragon, you CAN'T rely on a handshake and a promise. If I were doing it again, with the knowledge I have now, you may be sure I would have filed a dispute with paypal within the 45 days.
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Postby Larry Horowitz » 08/26/10 12:51 PM

I have never once lost money with someone I didn't trust.
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Postby John Lovick » 08/26/10 01:41 PM

Larry, have you ever lost money with someone you DID trust?
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 08/26/10 04:15 PM

The interview in Mandala was shameful.

I felt ill after reading it.

Parts of it are not true.

Parts of it that are true are nobody's damn business except the immediate parties involved.
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