Improvements!

Discuss the tricks and sleights which appear in Genii.

Postby Guest » 08/24/01 02:40 PM

This is in no way to put down the Heinstein Shuffle as it pertains to improvements in general.
I've read the instruction on the Heinstein shuffle and really have to question whether it's an improvement over what has been effective for umpteen years.
I'm sure that many of Vernon's sleights were improvements over many moves known for years. I'm sure many were true improvements to most operators and not just to enhance the ego of the originator and the few newbies who never learned the previous accepted methods.
After using my methods for performing a false shuffle that has gone unquestioned for 30 years, I find that learning something new that isn't easier to perform and doesn't increase the the effect on a lay audience is a wasted effort.
I find that many magic inventors including Gary Oullet have published variations of moves that fit their technique but do not make things easier or increase the effect on their audience.

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Postby Bill Mullins » 08/24/01 06:15 PM

I'm interested in seeing well thought out variations on sleights. When I was learning (I'm still learning, for that matter) a bottom deal, it was very helpful to read different grips, takes, etc., because the method that I use is more of a synthesis of other approaches than any single method. My hands are different than Gene Maze's, so his method doesn't work exactly for me, nor does anyone else's (at least the first time).

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Postby Guest » 08/24/01 07:06 PM

I don't object to publishing improvements and variations if they make moves easier. It's the claims that a method is revolutionary that bothers me. These moves may be revolutionary to the author and his promoters but not necessarily to the practioner.[LIST]
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Postby Jon Racherbaumer » 08/24/01 11:12 PM

Magicians, once enthused about something, tend to be hyperbolic and shrill. Karl's shuffle, although difficult to master, is a worthy "finessed footnote" to Riffle Shuffle Arcana because is can be done standing, in-the-hands, and it looks and SOUNDS like a legitimate shuffle.

Granted: There are other false shuffles that can deceptively do the job. Some are very easy and inelegant; others are knuckle-busters. It depends on your standards, needs, and taste.

If your emphasis is on presentation and entertainment, then arguments about this or that finesse, how good it may be, and whether or not it can withstand a "burn" are largely academic issues. Cardmen endless argue about such matters.

Shuffles such as Marlo's "Roman Shuffle" will whiz past fast company (if they are unfamiliar with its technical tip-offs), but it is not necessarily better than any of the other in-the-hands false shuffles, including the latest ones. Bill Malone showed Gary O. and I three new ones at the Magic magazine Event that were truly wonderful.

Were they revolutionary?

Depends on who asks and who's asking the question?

Onward...

[ August 25, 2001: Message edited by: Jon Racherbaumer ]
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 08/25/01 12:28 AM

Hey Jon,
Don't you read your posts for typos before hitting that "Post Message" button?
I saw Steve Forte do a false riffle shuffle while in Las Vegas that looks as good as anything I've ever seen. A hustler's move that's never seen print.
Karl's shuffle is beautiful, but Jon is right, of course, it really depends on what your skill level is and the circumstances in which you are going to do the shuffle.
The best illusion of mixing cards I've ever seen is Jerry Andrus' Satan's Shuffle!
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Postby Matthew Field » 08/25/01 09:30 AM

Variations of existing sleights are, if nothing else, a source of interest and stimulation to the serious student of magic. Evaluations of these moves is a challenge to these students, but thinking about what you are doing is, to me, the essence of good magic. A magazine, like Genii (or Precursor, M.O., Labyrinth or Channel One), is the perfect place for these variations to appear. I do get annoyed at books filled with this sort of thing.

As an aside, I passed up Earl Nelson's book, "Variations," because of the title. When I realized I wanted the book, years later, and couldn't find it, a friend helped me out by locating a copy. Thank you, Richard!

I don't care if Jon looks over his posts to correct minor typos or not. Having his participation here is invaluable and who cares about the spelling or syntax. Everything is clear (and, besides, that's what editors are for: ahem).

Let it flow, Jon!

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Postby Remco » 08/26/01 05:30 PM

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:

I saw Steve Forte do a false riffle shuffle while in Las Vegas that looks as good as anything I've ever seen. A hustler's move that's never seen print.


I saw Steve Forte use a false riffle shuffle in Magicians Hidden Secrets. Because of the nature of the routine (producing any named four of a kind) and the up the ladder cuts, I knew he was using a false shuffle. I watched the tape again and again (even in slow motion)? but I could not see any tip off for a false shuffle. Is this the same false shuffle?
It is the best false shuffle I have ever seen, because I still can not believe my eyes.
(maybe another premiere for genii?) :)
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Postby Guest » 08/30/01 07:41 PM

this may be stupid of me but after watching the tape I am not convinced that it is a full deck false shuffe
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 08/30/01 08:35 PM

I don't know what shuffle Steve Forte did on TV, but he can do Strip-Throughs, Pull-Outs, Zarrows, and MANY other false shuffles known only to the community of advantage players. Most are plain invisible.
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Postby Jim Morton » 09/05/01 02:42 PM

Originally posted by NoahLevine:
this may be stupid of me but after watching the tape I am not convinced that it is a full deck false shuffe


That's the general idea. ;)

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Postby Remco » 09/07/01 05:53 PM

I have to agree that the (false) shuffle Steve Forte used, is not a full deck false shuffle.
I assumed it was a full deck false shuffle, because he let somebody name any four of a kind and then produced it from the shuffled deck. Because I could not see any tip-offs,I thought it was an improved false shuffle.
After reading the comments on this thread and watching the shuffle again, I know better now.
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