2.5 hours until Derren (UK TV HEADS UP)

Discuss the latest news and rumors in the magic world.

Postby mrgoat » 05/10/10 02:25 PM

I know it's been mentioned here, but the new series airs tonight at 10pm.
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Postby Seuss » 05/10/10 02:44 PM

what is the name of his show? I can't find a listing
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Postby Sebastien L. » 05/10/10 03:56 PM

The name is "Derren Brown Investigates". He goes around and investigates psychics, ghost hunters, etc. At least that's what I got from the preview I've watched. Since I'm not in the UK though, it'll be at least... uh, a day or two before I can watch the premiere I guess.
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Postby mrgoat » 05/10/10 06:30 PM

Sebastien L. wrote:Since I'm not in the UK though, it'll be at least... uh, a day or two before I can watch the premiere I guess.


Piracy is brilliant isn't it! Who cares about copyright! Just nick it from the internet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111oneoneone

Do you pirate magic DVDs too?
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Postby CraigMac » 05/10/10 08:49 PM

The fine line between being in the UK to watch/record it and using the internet to watch it.

A different issue to public distribution of pirated DVDs, no?
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Postby CraigMitchell » 05/11/10 03:42 AM

You can go back to the days before the internet - where some accommodating soul would record the TV show on VHS tape in merry old England - send it to you via snail mail ... and if you didn't have a VCR capable of PAL playback ( ask Shawn ;-) you'd find a multi-system machine and have it converted ... all so that you could enjoy a magic TV show which was broadcast to hundreds of thousands of people - but thanks to a cruel twist of geography, you couldn't watch it. I think we'll let Sebastien off, shall we ?
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Postby mrgoat » 05/11/10 06:47 AM

CraigMac wrote:The fine line between being in the UK to watch/record it and using the internet to watch it.

A different issue to public distribution of pirated DVDs, no?


No fine line. It's illegal. It is copyright law. It's really very black and white. If you download this illegally then you are breaking the law. If you download magic DVDs you are breaking the law.
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Postby mrgoat » 05/11/10 06:49 AM

CraigMitchell wrote:You can go back to the days before the internet - where some accommodating soul would record the TV show on VHS tape in merry old England - send it to you via snail mail ... and if you didn't have a VCR capable of PAL playback ( ask Shawn ;-) you'd find a multi-system machine and have it converted ... all so that you could enjoy a magic TV show which was broadcast to hundreds of thousands of people - but thanks to a cruel twist of geography, you couldn't watch it. I think we'll let Sebastien off, shall we ?


Brilliant logic man!

So because Shawn faararaqrqrqhaha used to use a standards converter to steal other people's content, that means it's OK to steal it from the internet because it is much easier nowadays?

Lost me there daddio...

I guess you've never had content *you* created stolen.
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Postby mrgoat » 05/11/10 06:50 AM

Still, it was a very good show. Brown didn't hector the medium, he gave him enough rope to hang himself...

Richard Wiseman's segment on cold reading was great.
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Postby CraigMitchell » 05/11/10 07:44 AM

mrgoat - you do provide us with a laugh. And still so clearly upset about Shawn's win ...

Anyhow - if you so naively believe that there is not a magician out there who has watched a TV magic show recorded on VHS tape - you are sorely mistaken. You may wish to alert the authorities to the existence of The Magic Circle / SAM / IBM / Magic Castle's video library ... your 'holier than thou' approach to Sebastien ( and any fact any magician who dares watch a broadcast TV show when they 'shouldn't' ) is disingenuous at best.

Thank goodness for fair use otherwise I would never have been able to watch any magic on TV.

But then I suppose this is coming from a country where it is illegal to sell a goldfish to a 14 year old ;-)

P.S. Please do tell Derren that there are magicians who have 'stolen' from him because they watched his TV show in a different country.
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Postby mrgoat » 05/11/10 07:59 AM

CraigMitchell wrote:mrgoat - you do provide us with a laugh. And still so clearly upset about Shawn's win ...


I don't care who wins anything. Magic contest are rarely more than masturbation. I don't like Shawn's act. That's all. Lots of people don't. You clearly love him, that is fine. Let's move on.

CraigMitchell wrote:Anyhow - if you so naively believe that there is not a magician out there who has watched a TV magic show recorded on VHS tape


Where did I naively suggest that, love?

CraigMitchell wrote: your 'holier than thou' approach to Sebastien is disingenuous at best.


Well you publicly post about breaking the law or encouraging people to break the law if you want.

I prefer to point out it's illegal.

Do you also trade pirated DVDs? Or do you pick and chose which laws you break?

CraigMitchell wrote:Thank goodness for fair use otherwise I would never have been able to watch any magic on TV.


Downloading torrents or other methods of piracy is not Fair Use. It's stealing someone else's content. Unarguable fact.

CraigMitchell wrote:P.S. Please do tell Derren that there are magicians who have 'stolen' from him because they watched his TV show in a different country.


They are stealing from the copyright holder, Objective. And no, I won't point out that any money they planned to make from DVD sales of the show are now gone because you are encouraging people to steal their content. Did you also pirate the latest UK tv show to go to US DVD they released The Secret World of Magic?

Don't you feel bad about stealing other people's work?

It astounds me that you not only admit to stealing magic content, but you are mocking me for standing up for copyright law. In public.

/me shakes his head in shame

Some "community" we have where folk are lambasted for trying to protect someone's income.
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Postby El Mystico » 05/11/10 08:42 AM

A few years ago, a lovely programme was aired in Canada on Dai Vernon - the Spirit of Magic.

In an interview with David Ben, who was behind the programme, he said that he was astonished that, within a couple of days, he'd got an email from a magician in the UK who had got a copy of a video of the programme. Rather than complain about protecting his income, David recognised that such a level of interest suggested that there could be a market for a legally produced video. And, to the benefit of magicians everywhere, (and hopefully David's bank balance) he produced it.

So - illegal? Yes. Breaking copyright? Yes. Stealing income? Not necessarily.

I found myself thinking we owe that UK magician a debt of gratitude.
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Postby mrgoat » 05/11/10 09:01 AM

El Mystico wrote:A few years ago, a lovely programme was aired in Canada on Dai Vernon - the Spirit of Magic.

In an interview with David Ben, who was behind the programme, he said that he was astonished that, within a couple of days, he'd got an email from a magician in the UK who had got a copy of a video of the programme. Rather than complain about protecting his income, David recognised that such a level of interest suggested that there could be a market for a legally produced video. And, to the benefit of magicians everywhere, (and hopefully David's bank balance) he produced it.

So - illegal? Yes. Breaking copyright? Yes. Stealing income? Not necessarily.

I found myself thinking we owe that UK magician a debt of gratitude.


Objective are well aware of the interest in their content overseas. They release their content on DVD to make money from those territories. See Dustin's review of The Secret World of Magic yesterday.

I think many laws are wrong and silly. Doesn't mean I break those laws and post on forums boasting about it and encouraging others to do so.

Anyway, what's your argument exactly? It's OK to pirate stuff if it means a production company then releases it on DVD? Not sure that would stand up in court. Surely an email campaign would be just as effective and considerably less illegal?

When margins are as tight, when profits are as low, when the whole world of people that produce any kind of content are in real trouble because of people stealing their content, I think that is the time to knuckle down and support the people that make the content. Not steal from them.

Unless you want them to stop making the content, of course.
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Postby CraigMitchell » 05/11/10 05:19 PM

mrGoat - you continue to make the leap of assumption that this is 'theft' ... that watching a TV show that is broadcast to millions of people for *free* in the United Kingdom -- outside of the UK -- is theft.

I couldn't disagree more.

And as soon as the series is released on DVD - I'm sure that many will gladly be buying it ... both in the UK and outside. Those who watched it on TV and those who didn't.

But until then - magicians across the world will be rising up in this illegal watershed and watching TV shows they shouldn't be. I hope you won't be one of them.
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 05/11/10 05:51 PM

It gets funnier when you eventually remember that magicians are supposed to be good at keeping secrets.
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Postby Tim Ellis » 05/11/10 07:21 PM

In this thread http://www.geniimagazine.com/forums/ubb ... Post219918 Mr Goat thought I was over reacting because an Australian magician had taken a marketed effect (Ring Thing) and taught/exposed it on Youtube without permission from the creator.

I felt it was unethical.

I assume Mr Goat's reaction in that case, was the same as it is here, pure legality.

It's against the law to copy a television program or a DVD.
It's not against the law to take someone's marketed effect and expose it.




I did find it confusing though, when Mr Goat took the high road with this statement:

"When margins are as tight, when profits are as low, when the whole world of people that produce any kind of content are in real trouble because of people stealing their content, I think that is the time to knuckle down and support the people that make the content. Not steal from them."

Yet on this thread, http://www.geniimagazine.com/forums/ubb ... Post195482 discussing the p2p sites where people swapped magic DVDs in the thousands Mr Goat told us not to worry about creators losing potential income:

"But if you want to throw your toys out of the pram because YOU PERCEIVE a loss of income from a few 14 year olds trading files, sobeit."
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