Heinstein Shuffle

Discuss the tricks and sleights which appear in Genii.

Postby Ed Oschmann » 07/30/01 03:20 PM

I'm sure the majority of Genii readers passed this one up but having Karl perform this for me many times, all I can say is 'wow!'
If anyone needs an in the hands false shuffle which retains an entire stack look no further. :)
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Postby Jon Racherbaumer » 07/30/01 04:10 PM

I agree with Ed regarding this one. I suspect that readers by-passed this technique because it looks and reads as though it is too difficult to master. Furthermore, if they try out the technique and feel that it requires too much practice or that it's futile to acquire the knack,they ignore it. However, it is one of the finest in-the-hand false shuffles extant.

Think about this way: If you eventually master it, you have, relatively speaking, an exclusive technique. This cannot be said of moves such as the Jordan Count or Double Undercut.
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Postby Brian Marks » 07/30/01 06:14 PM

I hope this isnt a stupid question but where is this shuffle published?
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 07/30/01 06:33 PM

Jeeeeezzzzz, Brian, it's in Genii!
April or May I think. ;)
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Postby Brian Marks » 07/30/01 11:01 PM

Whoops! well my hopes were wrong. I knew I missed something. Sorry about that Richard

[ July 30, 2001: Message edited by: Brian Marks ]
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Postby Paul Cummins » 07/31/01 02:46 AM

However, it is one of the finest in-the-hand false shuffles extant.

I have seen Guy Hollingworth, Danny Archer, David Harkey and Eric Anderson perform their versions of an in-the-hands false riffle shuffle. All are very good.

None holds a candle to Karl's shuffle, IMHO.
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Postby Guest » 07/31/01 01:13 PM

Hi Paul,

Met you at your Club 53 lecture (No. CA), awesome material!

Have you seen Ackerman's Bottom Up Zarrow?

Tom Cutts
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Postby Paul Cummins » 08/01/01 02:32 AM

Met you at your Club 53 lecture (No. CA), awesome material!

Have you seen Ackerman's Bottom Up Zarrow?

Tom Cutts[/QB]


Thanks for the kind words. Nope, haven't seen Allan's BUZ!
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Postby Eric DeCamps » 08/01/01 05:25 PM

Hey Paul!

Good to see here on forum!

In regards to the Bottom Up Zarrow Shuffle, the description of the sleight can be found in Allan Ackerman's [/i]Classic Handlings lecture notes, Fall - 1999.

I had the privileged of having Allan performed a routine for me that used this shuffle at least three times and the shuffles went right by me. When I realized what he was doing, I immediately forked over the cash for the notes! This one move is well worth more than the price asked for the notes.

You really should check it out.

Eric DeCamps

[ August 01, 2001: Message edited by: Eric DeCamps ]

[ August 01, 2001: Message edited by: Eric DeCamps ]
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 08/01/01 10:00 PM

Has anyone successfully learned it from my write-up? Was wondering how difficult it might be to learn from print ... :confused:
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Postby Andi » 08/02/01 04:28 AM

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
Has anyone successfully learned it from my write-up? Was wondering how difficult it might be to learn from print ... :confused:
Yup, I learnt it within just a couple of hours - great write up, great illustrations and great shuffle!

--Andi
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Postby Guest » 08/02/01 08:09 AM

While I must agree that the shuffle looks fabulous, do you not find that its angles are not ideal for typical "working conditions" (i.e., performer standing facing seated spectators)?
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Postby Paul Cummins » 08/02/01 10:45 AM

Just checked it out, Eric, thanks for the reference. Looks like a nice blind, but I'm not crazy about squaring the deck while the bottom cards face the audience. Though I cannot do it performably yet, I'm still sold on Karl Hein's shuffle.

As always, old buddy, I look forward to our paths crossing again soon...
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 08/02/01 04:09 PM

Doug,
When I've seen Karl do The Heinstein Shuffle, it was always while both of us were standing. I think that if the audience is seated, you might break your wrists forward, tilting the top of the deck toward the audience.
DOES ANYONE OUT THERE HAVE KARL'S E-MAIL ADDRESS? LET'S ASK HIM ABOUT THIS? :confused:
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Postby Ed Oschmann » 08/02/01 10:25 PM

Karl said that he might angle the cards toward the audience if he's standing and they're sitting.
It's like doing the pass. Sure you want to perform it deceptively and well, but the audience should be listening to what your saying and the move is periferal.
Karl's e-mail is: magikarl@aol.com- with his permission.
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Postby Paul Cummins » 08/03/01 05:13 AM

DOES ANYONE OUT THERE HAVE KARL'S E-MAIL ADDRESS? LET'S ASK HIM ABOUT THIS? :confused:[/QB]


Magikarl@aol.com
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Postby Craig Matsuoka » 08/06/01 08:36 PM

Richard,

I absolutely LOVE this shuffle! You must have blackmailed Karl or something because this was just simply too good to give away.

The accompanying illustrations made your write up so much easier to follow. Please don't be offended by that. I think anyone would have a difficult time explaining this wonderful move through words alone. I was able to learn the rudiments in minutes, and it took me about two weeks to master. It's really not as difficult as people make it sound.

I recommend using a thin gauge of cards when you're first starting out. Thanks to USPC's infamous quality control, sometimes you can find a thin batch of Bicycles in amongst your Costco bargains. If you're fortunate enough to find some thin Bicycles, be sure they're well broken in. Newer cards are too slippery to make practing the move fun.

BTW, another thing I found helpful was to alter the way the corners are riffled together. If you interlace them slightly offset so the corner of the right packet is closer to your body than the corner of the left packet, the right thumb can easily grasp that corner since it's already "undone".
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 08/08/01 11:09 AM

Thanks for the tip on the shuffle, Craig.
I'm not the least bit offended about your comments regarding the importance of the illustrations.
Since I began illustrating tricks when I was about 15, I have ALWAYS thought of the process of teaching sleight of hand as a totality that encompassed both drawings and text. Even though I generally try to follow what Lorayne taught me, which is to write the text as if there are going to be NO illustrations, there is no question that drawings make a HUGE difference in trying to learn sleight of hand.
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Postby Guest » 08/09/01 06:46 PM

Hello all,
Glad to see that a couple of people are getting their use out of the Heinstein Shuffle. To answer the previous question about the angle problem, I've found that it can be successfully performed in any conditions with 2 exceptions 1)the performer is standing and the spectator's eye level is way below the performers hand level such as if they are sitting of the ground 2)if the performer is sitting at a table. When I am standing it is easy to adjust the wrist angle at which the cards are interlaced and separated. In fact the cards can be shuffled and separated perpindicular to the ground almost like you are shuffling off of your waste. Once the thumb begins to spring the cards the wrists can angle up towards eye level because the sound and springing motion cover any discrepencies. This only needs to be done if the performer is standing and the spectators are sitting. Your wrist angle can be adjusted depending on the eye level of the audience. At extreme angles such as when you have to shuffle perpendicular to the gournd, the shuffling position feels more comfortable if you shuffle the outside corners together rather than the inside corners. Then follow the rest of the description as published in Genii. So basically, if you are standing, the shuffle can be adjusted to suit any angle problems. If you are sitting at a table and everyone is standing around you you are fine. But, if they are sitting as well, then, because of the table top, you can't angle your wrists. Shuffling at the outside corners like I previously mentioned might help a little. But if you are unsure, and you haven't practiced it sitting at a table, you might as well do a zarrow shuffle which is more suited for the situation. I hope that answers any questions and I hope everyone practices it a whole lot because I'd like to see what it looks like when someone else does it well.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 08/09/01 07:45 PM

Hi Karl and welcome to the forum!
Thanks so much for taking the time to answer the questions posted by some of our members.
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Postby Dave Shepherd » 08/12/01 06:56 PM

Okay, thanks to this thread, the Heinstein Shuffle has been my new-sleight-obssession this week. Thank you all for the encouragement, and thanks to Karl for the tips.

At first I was having an awfully hard time with the rather deep grip on the two halves, so I just did a regular in-the-air riffle with that grip for four or five days and now it feels very comfortable.

The cards are still hanging up a bit sometimes when I go from the disengagement to the springing, but my hands have "accidentally" done it correctly and up to speed often enough that I can tell what it will feel like in another week ;).

Thanks again!

Dave Shepherd

[ August 12, 2001: Message edited by: Dave Shepherd ]
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Postby Guest » 08/16/01 02:57 PM

Inspired by this thread, I have finally taken the time to sit down and work through the move. It looks like it will be great (someday).

A couple of questions/suggestions.

1. I'm wondering if there is a good reason the R thumb needs to be at the inner corner of its half to perform the bluff spring. First of all, my thumbs seem naturally to want to be at the outer corners. Secondly, if the R thumb (and consequently the R half) is slightly forward of the L one, won't it provide a bit more cover for the unweave and spring? I haven't worked with this enough to advocate this from experience, but wanted to know in advance if anyone had looked into this option.

2. Just wanted to mention the apparent relation between this move and Jerry Andrus's "Satan's Shuffle" on one of the recent Andrus videos. Andrus's is quite different of course--a flourishy but truly diabolical false shuffle. But worth mentioning here, I thought, as it also utilizes a spring (from both halves) to simulate a cascade shuffle.

3. As so often happens, I completely misapprehended the concept of the shuffle the first time I (mis)read it. (In that excited state just after the mail arrives, no cards in hand, and reading too fast.) But what I _thought_ the move was is kind of interesting and I wonder if anyone has explored it: has anyone devised a shuffle where the unweaving action actually produces the cascading sound? So that as you apparently bow the cards for the bridge, you actually are pulling the cards free of each other, somehow making a long soft riffle that simulates the appropriate sound? I ask this hypothetically because I have not (yet) been able to achieve this with any consistency. Anyone gone down this road?

--Ezra.
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Postby Paul Cummins » 08/17/01 04:42 AM

" ... has anyone devised a shuffle where the unweaving action actually produces the cascading sound?"

In Gary Oullett's (sorry, I *know* I spelled that incorrectly...) Fulminations column from Genii (BK)he explained Homer Liwag's false faro shuffle, which *does* use the unweaving of the packets to create a whirrr sound that simulates a cascade.
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Postby Dave Shepherd » 08/17/01 07:51 AM

Also check out Meir Yedid's "Fake Faro Flourish" in his book Magical Wishes. The riffling sound happens on the unweave in a Faro shuffle.

I don't know whether this is like Homer Liwag's method; Meir doesn't credit anyone else. Sounds like it could be similar.

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Postby Bill Mullins » 08/17/01 03:26 PM

Originally posted by PaulCummins:
[QB
In Gary Oullett's (sorry, I *know* I spelled that incorrectly...) Fulminations column from Genii (BK)he explained Homer Liwag's false faro shuffle, which *does* use the unweaving of the packets to create a whirrr sound that simulates a cascade.[/QB]


One of Mike Close's Workers books references this shuffle, but doesn't explain it (#5, I think). When Mike lectured here, I asked him about it and said that he didn't explain it because Homer hadn't really released it, that it was just published anyway. It'd be interesting to know if Homer really wanted this false shuffle out there. It'd also be interesting to know Gary's side to this story, since this is similar to what he apparently did with Lee Asher's "Asher Twist" in his book "The Pass".

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Postby Guest » 08/18/01 03:38 PM

Yea, Homer's shuffle is great. I learned it incorrectly years ago and just recently had someone show me the correct way to do it. I have also seen several variations of it. It creates a great sound and looks natural except for the faro action. The other problem is that it is a little angly. I'm sure that if I saw Homer do it correctly, a lot of the problems I see with it would be diminished though. In my mind, ideally, a false shuffle should look and sound natural and real from all angles. To answer Ezra's question about the thumbs, both thumbs are at the outside corners when riffling. When the cards are being pushed together(supposedly) to prepare for the bridge, the R thumb moves in (towards the body)so that the cards can be quickly sprung. In my opinion, the reason the shuffle looks so much better when I do it from when other people do it is for this reason. There doesn't seem to be (from the spectators perspective) enough time to separate the cards and then spring them. Because it is done quickly and smoothly, the shuffle looks real. When I see other people do it, they haven't practiced enough to be able to separate the cards and then spring them in one fluid motion. There is often a suspicious pause. Also, the write-up in genii is, as mentioned, different from what I do. I spring from the L hand rather than the R hand. So Ezra, if you practice it this way, having your R thumb in front will feel more natural. Its the same for me. I devised it this way because thats how I used to do my table Zarrow, with the cover card on the R stack. Furthermore, if you read the last two paragraphs in the genii description, it is not necessary to handle the cards the way it is described if you spring from the L hand. Your R hand just picks up the top half of the deck as is described in the second paragraph on page 50. If you do a two shuffle sequence cutting at the break, you are back in original order with no additional cut. I agree with Richard that it is a good idea to show the top card being displaced. So instead I do a false overhand shuffle that I also devised but had already seen print before I was born. From what I am told, the one that I do was originally in Alex Elmsley's lecture notes. Not sure though. Anyways, that solves the top card problem while shuffling the cards in an other convincing manner. The other thing that Richard mentions in the description that isn't described, is that I do a slip cut before the shuffle so that the two shuffle sequence is not necessary. What I am actually doing is a pseudo-cover pass so that from left hand dealing position, the right hand ends up with the bottom half and top card. This is in the action of taking half of the deck into one hands to prepare to shuffle. Then I do the shuffle and spring the cards from the left hand under the top card making it false. Richard, the handling has changed sleightly on the "slip cut" move so that it looks better and more natural then when you saw it. Ideally, you should only have to do one shuffle, it should be completely false, and every move should look like as if you were actually shuffling. Thats the way I usually perform it. If you spring from the R hand, I would suggest doing a slip cut by having your L thumb hold back the top card as your R hand takes the top half and then springs it back under the top card. In performance, sometimes having to do two shuffles is an inconvenience. Anyways, I hope that clears up a few things and helps a few of you. If you all like good false shuffles, I suggest also checking out Andrew Wimhurst's. Its the best in the hands push through shuffle I've seen and his triumph is the newest thing I've been working on. It has lots of applications, especially for red/black separation routines and I've been performing his triumph successfully using Bicycle cards even though he says it can only be done with borderless brands. For certain routines, Andrew's shuffle is ideal.
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Postby Guest » 08/20/01 01:15 AM

Can someone clarify the Liwag shuffle for me?
I learned a shuffle that I was told Liwag did but I was also told it was a Krenzel idea. Basically it can only be done for a person standing dead in front of you and the cards are in an awkward grip.The shuffle was done during a triumph type effect.Is this the one you guys are talking about? Karl did I show it to you at Florida State? I don't have any of the sources mentioned on this.
Also as an aside Karl what is your e-mail again? It would be great to get together. :)
Cheers
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Postby Guest » 08/20/01 01:20 AM

Oops I guess I should have looked more thoroughly in the thread I see your e-mail.Cheers :eek:
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Postby Kevin Baker » 08/21/01 02:55 AM

Karl,

Thank you for going into detail on some of the finer points of your shuffle.

If it is not too much of an imposition - and if it is allowable on this board - would you mind providing a bit more information on your "pseudo cover pass"?

I have been using an in the hands slip cut disguised as a running cut to set up for a single shuffle sequence but would love to know more about how you get into it.

Regards,

Kevin
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Postby Brian Marks » 08/24/01 12:56 AM

I got to meet Karl at the magic live convention. He performed the shuffle and it is a great looking shuffle
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Postby Bill Mullins » 09/15/01 02:21 AM

Can someone please tell me which issue of Genii this is in, and what is on the cover of that issue??

Bill
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 09/15/01 01:01 PM

Bill, it's in the April 2001 issue, with John Mulholland on the cover.
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Postby Bill Mullins » 09/15/01 01:55 PM

Thanks very much.

Bill
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Postby Guest » 09/23/01 07:35 AM

I'm not famarilar with the Heinstein technique, however, I do intend to remedy this soon. My question here since the topic is shuffles. Has anyone worked up Ken Krenzel's "A Strange Riffle Shuffle" (The Card Classics of Ken Krenzel, page 156)? To say Kens technique is brilliant would be an understatement. Instead of facing the deck I have altered it slightly for a straight forward falsie. Any comments?
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 09/23/01 12:42 PM

Vernon,
When drawing the illustrations for the book I played with the shuffle. After reading your post I went back and reread it and tried it again. Krenzel has ENORMOUS hands, and reaching across the span of BOTH halves of the deck while telescoped is simply impossible for the average person. AND, the right hand has to be large as well in order to cover the whole thing. The concept is not Ken's--if you reread the description in the book you'll see that it appeared in Genii at some earlier point.
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Postby Guest » 09/23/01 09:22 PM

Richard,
Thanks for the reply. Upon your suggestion I went back and reread the description. Thanks for pointing out that the idea appeared in Genii years ago. Any idea who's is credited with the concept?
I guess being blessed with large hands means....uummm....having large feet.
Take care all.
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Postby Bill Mullins » 10/04/01 01:10 PM

Originally posted by Vernon Almond:

I guess being blessed with large hands means....uummm....having large feet.


What it really means is . . . .

large gloves.

Bill
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Postby Jacky Kahan » 10/08/01 06:32 AM

I think i saw David Harkey a few years ago having a "similar" shuffle... am i right? or completely wrong?

thanks
(i'll check tonight to be sure)
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Postby Guest » 03/07/02 09:31 AM

I was really wondering if the Heinstein-shuffle is the thing Lennart Green does on his tapes (also I think on his new 3 tape series which I own).

He seems to be doing the exact same move Hein described in this forum.

Lennart Green is very secretive about that move and last week (at the convention in Blackpool) when he was sitting next to me at a cafe-table, he showed it but wouldn't explain that shuffle to me unfortunately (nothing really wrong with that ofcourse :D).

Hope someone has a few words on this,
thx
Emile.

(btw: Very nice convention I have to say, last week in Blackpool, England. Over 3000 !!!people attending this year. Great lecturers/performers; guyz like Ammar, McBride, Sankey, Williamson, Tamariz, Green, Lovell etc. Again learning loadz of new stuff)
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 03/07/02 10:43 PM

The shuffle which Lennart Green performs is NOT identical in technique to The Heinstein Shuffle (to the best of my knowledge).
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