Originally posted by mathtrix:
Not sure what I have done to offend you, my personal apologies. Just because I didn't show the book to you at the History Conference does not cause it to no longer exist.
....My point is simply this - perhaps the only things more difficult than writing, are writing well, writing accurately, and writing with originality. Once again the benefits of using "Original Source Material" and proper crediting are made clear.
As to the "words and where they came from" issue, I think this revelation and discussion now has all of us asking bigger and much more important questions about originality, contribution, scholarship and character ..../QB]
Assuming you are being sincere, Im the one who owes you an apology if you showed your mysterious Jay copy to Richard Hatch as promised. I asked Richard point blank if you surfaced at the Conference and he told me you did not. So unless I grossly misunderstood Hatch, then Id have to conclude that you broke your promise. Youre correct, of course, in pointing out that if I dont see the book, its existence is not negated. But as alluded to above, if I have showed any skepticism about your credibility, it is related to your apparent failure to do what you said youd do not to your failure to show the book to me (as much as Id like to see it). So, to sum up this point, if you showed the copy to Dick Hatch, then I apologize for questioning your credibility. If you did not, then I hope you can understand and accept as legitimate my position (but in any event you have not offended me).
With one significant exception, very generally speaking, I think your observations regarding writing, proper credits, etc., are well taken. But as I suggested in my prior post, if this is an isolated instance when David Ben has neglected to provide the appropriate credits
, then, based on his responses in this thread, I am ready to forgive this faux pas and chalk it up to a learning experience for David. After all, so far as I know, this is his first attempt at significant biographical documentation, and expecting perfection from even an accomplished biographer is setting a high standard indeed. Im not sure what else could be asked of Ben in response to your revelations, and thats the segue way to the exception to your comments. You mention that some of this discussion raises important questions about ... character. Again, if this represents a sole slip by David, and given his responses, Im not sure how the matter of character is raised, because Im not sure how David could show any better character than by his responses. We all make mistakes, and Davids been about as forthright as can be, it seems. If anything, then, he seems to have provided good reason to trust his character not call it into question.
In closing, I will say that there is one source of mild irritation from your posts your anonymity. You have that right, I suppose, but Im not sure why you feel the need to exercise it. Do you not have the strength of conviction to associate yourself with your opinions? I wont go so far as to suggest that posting anonymously destroys your credibility, but it certainly does make me wonder why
you elect to hide behind a moniker. If you will not disclose your identity, will you at least then explain why you choose to voice opinions anonymously?
[written after viewing the above post]
Originally posted by castawaydave:
[QB] First (to paraphrase Mr. Mullins) "My relationship with Mr. Ben is only through his words, and that is now tainted". Wow--you're pretty damned delicate. Just a tad melodramatic, no? Cry me a river. ... In fact, [David] has ALREADY corrected the "perceived" situation, no doubt at extra cost, and inconvenience, so shut the F___ up.
From my comments above, hopefully youll find that you and I are thinking along the same lines when it comes to Bens response. That said, IMHO Bills comment certainly has its merits. If Bills prior (thoughtful) posts on this forum are any indication, I suspect that he would agree that nobody is perfect, and that if David Ben made a one-off mistake, then hes done about all he could to rectify it. My apologies to Bill if I have put words in his mouth or wrongly interpreted how he might respond to your comments.