I am bored stiff!

Discuss general aspects of Genii.

Postby Mark.Lewis » 11/04/09 02:18 PM

Oh, I completely forgot-the trump card! Well its called a SUCKER TRICK. There are a number of them around and using any one of them at the right time is the surest way not only to deflate your tormentor but often to make him your biggest booster. These are tricks which look as if theyve gone badly wrong, but at the last minute the poor magician extricates himself from his dilemna, and turns the tables on everybody by amazing them after all! This type of trick is especially effective for hecklers because they fall into a trap; at first they are delighted that the magician has had his comeuppance, they are flushed with triumph and often loudly mock the performer for his incompetence. However, when suddenly everything turns out right in the end, the gales of laughter from the crowd are usually directed against the heckler who then after his initial surprise and embarrassment, usually admits defeat and nurses his bruised ego by strangely praising you to the skies and becoming one of your biggest fans. In my experience, I have often found these former opponents have spread my reputation far and wide, they get their feelings of importance now, not by heckling but by bragging that they know me, and most incredible of all, get loudly indignant if anyone else dares to heckle me if they happen to be watching!

Thats my advice on hecklers; it has taken up a lot of space but I think its useful advice since amateurs probably get more heckling, especially from family and friends than anyone else when performing in an impromptu close up situation. But this advice may be useful for professional magicians too.

And talking about professional magicians let me remind you all what I said in my very first post concerning this matter. The above sermon does not necessarily apply to stand up magic situations or kid shows or where pitching magic is concerned.

However, if you perform close up intimate card magic in social and business situations, all you need to know about handling hecklers is the advice Ive given you and the knowledge youll get from experience.

One more thing I should mention. I earlier said that I had a personality that God designed to ward off hecklers. Some people might say that it was the Devil rather than God that designed it but whoever or whatever designed it made things easier for me. It isn't my doing that I am made this way but I may as well take advantage of it. The secret is that I am able to charm the heckler. This, of course is a gift from the Gods and not everyone is naturally going to be able to do this. However they will be able to adapt some of the philosophy to their own personality and hopefully make good and effective use of it.

And now one more question. Has all this been helpful to anyone?
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Postby Jager » 11/04/09 02:52 PM

Mark.Lewis wrote:And now one more question. Has all this been helpful to anyone?


Thank you Mark, you have answered my question above and beyond my expectations.
What are your favorite sucker tricks that you use in close up situations?
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Postby Mark Collier » 11/04/09 02:59 PM

If you can maintain enough control over the spectator (and the audience), over the head is a great trick to do on know-it-alls.
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Postby Mark.Lewis » 11/04/09 05:17 PM

There is a ton of sucker tricks. Off the top of my head is Design for laughter or it's ancestor Dunbury Delusion, Three and a Half of clubs, Now you See it, etc;

To this day I still remember a loud mouthed heckler (I even remember his name was Morris and this was around 40 years ago)yelling "I'm Sorry! You've got it wrong" when I apparently placed the correct card down on the table in the Design for Laughter trick in the Royal Road to Card Magic. He grabbed the card and when he turned it over it was no longer there. The yells of derision from the crowd and the look on his face stick with me to this day.

I just appeared humble and innocent as always and he knew he had been had. My style has always been for them to underestimate me. That guy became a fan of mine from that moment on. What else could he do? The only way he could placate his own injured ego was to thenceforth praise me to the skies on the old principle that "if you can't beat 'em then join 'em"

And the above scenario has happened countless times. The heckler turns into a fan instead of a pest.

Far better than using heckler stoppers I would have thought. I bet you don't turn too many hecklers in your favour saying "that's what happens when cousins marry"
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Postby Dave Mithaca » 11/04/09 07:55 PM

Great stuff, Mr. Lewis. A lot of this philosophy could be used by teachers (such as myself) to good effect in a classroom. I especially like your explanation of "suspension of disbelief." Thanks for sharing!
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Postby Mark.Lewis » 11/04/09 09:14 PM

You are of course welcome.

I suppose I had better answer Jonathon's questions now. The problem is that I understand the first one but not the second. I shall have to wait until that comes back from the translater.

He asks how you introduce yourself to an audience. I am of the opinion that you should get straight to the point and not yap too much under the delusion that you are gaining "rapport" when you are probably inducing boredom instead. Mentalists are particularly guilty of this.

You need to get started within 30 seconds of coming out on that stage. Don't waste time. Performers who talk interminably without any action happening put me to sleep and of course mentalists again are the chief sinners in this regard.

I come from the hard school of London night clubs and British working mens clubs where you would not survive if you did all that interminable yapping that goes on nowadays. In London you were given no chance at all and in fact not only were the entire audience drunk they had their backs to you when you first came out on stage. The working mens clubs were much fairer. They would give you a whole minute before ignoring you. And you had to prove yourself in that first minute otherwise you were toast. After that if they didn't like you then a buzz of conversation would go round the room and that would be the end of you.

I learned then to get that first bloody trick started and not waste time. Do your rapport building during that trick not with a whole load of waffle beforehand.

And THAT is how you introduce yourself to an audience.
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Postby Mark.Lewis » 11/04/09 09:16 PM

mrgoat wrote:I'd like to know why you ended up pitching sven decks. I sold then for a while in my youth before I even knew they were a pitch item. So I thought I was being clever working things that are in your book.

Do you think people who bulk sell the decks should also sell your book with them?

What is the ONE key thing in your book to persuade people to buy it?

x


Miracle of miracles. I think I have actually mastered this quote thing.
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Postby Mark.Lewis » 11/04/09 09:26 PM

I shall now ponder the goat's questions. I wish he hadn't asked so many but then he has always been irritating.

I ended up selling svengali decks because I overheard Ron Macmillan offering Val Andrews a massive percentage of sales to sell them at an exhibition. I then made the fatal error of going down to Ron MacMillan's magic studio the next day to offer my services. I wish now that I bloody hadn't. I made so much money selling them for Ron Macmillan that I could never escape from the damn things. I eventually went on my own and sold them all over the world and ended up married to the bloody things.

As to the second question people who bulk sell svengali decks have managed quite well without my book and no doubt will continue to do so. However it would certainly be a good book for a magic shop to carry since if they sell a svengali deck they may as well upsell my book also.

And the one key thing in my book is that it is written by [censored]. I would have thought this was perfectly obvious.
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Postby Silly Walter » 11/05/09 09:55 AM

Mr. Lewis,

We appreciate you taking time out of your very busy schedule to answer such questions. I thank you in advance.

1. Besides Randy Wakeman, David Acer and Paul Harris, who do you think are the funniest and best comedy close up magic guys?

2. Richard Osterlind finally broke his 3 weeks of silence and released another DVD series - this time on 13 Steps To Mentalism. How awesome is that for mentalists?

3. Marshall Brodein also used to pitch the Svengali deck. I believe it was advertised as TV Magic Cards. Was this an inspiration for you to follow in his footsteps?

4. What is Theory 11?

5. When you hand out your business card, do you do something magical with the card like show it blank on both sides, magically print it and then give it to the client, or do you think magicians that do that should be punched in the face?

Once again Mr. Lewis, on behalf of the entire magic community, we thank you.

SW
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Postby Glenn Bishop » 11/05/09 10:24 AM

Silly Walter wrote:Mr. Lewis,

We appreciate you taking time out of your very busy schedule to answer such questions. I thank you in advance.

SW


I am not Mr. Lewis however I will be glad to answer your questions - just to help you out silly Walter.

Silly Walter wrote:1. Besides Randy Wakeman, David Acer and Paul Harris, who do you think are the funniest and best comedy close up magic guys?
SW


Bill Malone, Tom Ogden, and Ricky Jay

Silly Walter wrote:

2. Richard Osterlind finally broke his 3 weeks of silence and released another DVD series - this time on 13 Steps To Mentalism. How awesome is that for mentalists?

SW

Very awesome.

Silly Walter wrote:3. Marshall Brodein also used to pitch the Svengali deck. I believe it was advertised as TV Magic Cards. Was this an inspiration for you to follow in his footsteps?

SW


Having worked for Marshall Brodien in his Marshall Brodien Magic shop before it became Bishop's Magic shop. Back at the Old Chicago Amusement park. Marshall was known for doing the Svengali deck pitch on television. He also pitched TV Magic cards, TV Mystery cards, TV Miracle cards and the TV magic card box.

Along with lots of different magic sets.

Marshall Brodien also was a night club Hypnotist and close up magician in Chicago. Performing hypnotism at the Ciro club and close up magic at the Johnny Paul Magic Lounge.

Later he owned his own night club and went on to inventing WIZO the magic clown for the WGN bozo circus television program.

Yes Marshall Brodien has inspired me in both hypnotism and magic. He did a great svengali deck pitch and used to pitch the deck at Walgreens when the pitch was running on TV. I was also shown how to pitch svengali decks by Eddie Fields. And through the magic shop through the years sold quite a lot of them.

Silly Walter wrote:

4. What is Theory 11?

SW


Theory after Theory 10 and before Theory 12.

Silly Walter wrote:
5. When you hand out your business card, do you do something magical with the card like show it blank on both sides, magically print it and then give it to the client, or do you think magicians that do that should be punched in the face?

SW


I just hand out a business card when an audience member of a client asks for it. And if the client asks for a business card and I am booked at the gig by an agent I hand out the agents business card.

I hope this helps.
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Postby mrgoat » 11/05/09 11:20 AM

Glenn Bishop wrote:I hope this helps.


I doubt it, because he didn't ask for your opinion, he asked for someone else's opinion.

Just my opinion.
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Postby Mark.Lewis » 11/05/09 11:58 AM

I say Bishop old chap. You are interrupting the class. Go and stand in the corner. Silly Walter was asking me not you.

I set up this thread so that I could relieve my boredom and pontificate here without getting into too much trouble. If I am not pontificating that means I go on the other threads and get tempted to say rude things about Jim Sisti who has actually got his revenge without knowing that he got it. And I am not going to tell him either. I don't want him gloating.

Anyway I set this thread up so that I could pontificate not Glenn Bishop. I do recognise that poor Glenn is misunderstood in the same way I am and his wise contributions are not acknowledged as much as they should be. However he should do as I do and set up his own pontification thread rather than ride on my coat tails and hijack my own recognised genius just because I get more attention than he does.

Besides it distracts me from answering Silly Walter's questions. What is the point of me answering them when another person comes along and deputises for me without having received formal permission to do so?

I shall now look at them closely and see what I have to say.

With regard to his first question I don't like anybody doing close up magic today. I think they are all crap but some are lesser crap than others. I think the best ones are dead and I am nearly there myself.

But it is an odd question. It mentions comedy close up magicians. I don't think a close up magician has to be funny to be effective. It doesn't hurt but it isn't essential. Just being funny per se isn't the be all and end all of a good performer. In fact you can be so funny that you kill the magic which does deserve some attention after all.

I will revise my statement that I don't particularly like any of the present crop of living incompetents. There is one chap in Ireland who is little known among magicians and likes to keep it that way. His name is Daniel 0'Donoghue and he is one of the greatest I have ever seen. He isn't particularly funny but as I stated you don't have to be. He is certainly entertaining though and you can certainly be entertaining without getting belly laughs. Smiles and amusement are sufficient.

A few months ago I saw Julie Eng perform and I was far more impressed than I thought I would be. It wasn't so much the magic which was excellent but the charm with which she put it across. Her smile alone would charm the most difficult of spectators. I saw her work to senior citizens who are not the greatest audiences for close up magic but they loved her. The secret is that she sells herself whether she knows it or not. And so does Dan in Ireland. The tricks don't really matter that much. As I keep saying they are only pegs that you hang your personality on.

I am hesitant to mention her here because I am in enough trouble with her already because of the lamentable Sisti person but that is another story altogether and even Sisti doesn't know what it is all about. Still Silly Walter asked the question and I feel duty bound to give a truthful answer. Mind you I haven't really answered the question because Julie isn't a comedy performer either. But then as I stated you don't have to be.

Walter has asked other questions and I will get to them in due course. I am still sulking because of the impertinence of the Bishop person in interruping the class.
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Postby Glenn Bishop » 11/05/09 12:15 PM

Sorry for interrupting the class Mark. I very much enjoyed the class talk on what to do about hecklers when performing. And the class way that you spoke about it "wit and wisdom" as I once said.

I also think that there are even more problems with hecklers today in the real world of performing. Just because of the secrets are easy to get today. With DVDs and youtube. If one is performing today with the exposure - it seems to me that there are more problems with hecklers today in the real world of doing shows.

So in my opinion your advice on hecklers was and is much needed.

Thanks again.

Oh yes I forgot to say "Just My Opinion"!
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 11/05/09 12:17 PM

I'm watching the way you handle the heckler - trying to learn.
Mundus vult decipi
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Postby mai-ling » 11/05/09 12:29 PM

me too!
you will remember my name
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Postby Mark.Lewis » 11/05/09 12:38 PM

Dunno Glenn. You may be right. I haven't noticed any particular difference but I suppose you may have a point that more people know the secrets so there may be more blurting out those secrets when a magician does his thing. I dunno. Where close up magic is concerned you may have a point although as I have said I haven't seen much trouble yet although I did notice Lee Darrow say much the same as you since people were beginning to know all the gimmicks he used.

Where the stage is concerned though I don't believe for one moment that there is more heckling now than there used to be. I think in fact there is far less. In the old days there were some very rough venues around and if you used the mamby-pamby technique that I described above you would not survive. I emphasis again that my sermon was for close up impromptu magic and sometimes even paid close up magic but not for stand up venues.

I got heckled mercilessly for months on end in London night clubs where the entire audience was drunk and I was a very new performer at the time. I had no idea how to handle it.

Nope. It is a lot easier nowadays with regard to stand up work at any rate. I hardly get any heckling at all nowadays in the venues I work and I must say that I don't miss it either.
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Postby James Munton » 11/05/09 01:02 PM

Doing sucker tricks for difficult punters is a horrible idea. There are far better ways to deal with them. I'd go into more detail, but I have to pop out for a while. I think it is outrageous that you would give these poor people such bad advice. I will take over the class when I return.

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Postby Mark.Lewis » 11/05/09 01:06 PM

Munton. You have no idea what you are talking about. You obviously missed the point I made that my advice is for close up magic situations rather than stand up performances. I know your style well. When you are being heckled you immediately get on your high horse and start to reprimand the heckler. Very silly way of proceeding if I may say so and is a common fault of the less experienced or the more experienced who are less astute.

Here is the very proof of my contention. It is well known that I do not approve of Quentin Reynolds and he does not approve of me in return but this is what he said about my work:

"I have no hesitation, nor have I ever had any hesitation or reluctance in acknowledging you as the finest card magician I have ever seen performing for laymen in an impromptu situation.

At conventions I have seen magicians, hailed as some of the world's best by their peers who I know would die a thousand painful deaths in the venues I have seen you perform. Venues where I have seen tough and hostile groups intrigued, tamed and turned into cheering fans in minutes and left shouting for more."

Note the words "tough and hostile" especially the word "hostile"
If Munton were working they would STILL be hostile even if he were able to quieten them down. With me they no longer remain hostile and in fact become "cheering fans". That is because I am [censored] and Munton is merely Munton.

How can anyone that decries my wonderful choo-choo train trick have any credibility?
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Postby Jager » 11/05/09 01:12 PM

Mark.Lewis wrote:I am going to use this thread to answer any questions you may have about these subjects. Old people like to share their knowledge to the young who most of the time don't deserve the knowledge anyway.


Mark, I really appreciate your detailed answers to all my questions and I apologize if I am asking too many. I dont get many opportunities to talk with seasoned working magicians so I am going to take advantage of your generosity.
Do you have any suggestions on selecting assistants from the audience? How do you spot the ones that will be most cooperative? I am amazed at how poorly most young people are able to follow even the simplest of instructions. And when an assistant is just not working out is it okay to politely dismiss them and select another?
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Postby Mark.Lewis » 11/05/09 01:21 PM

I can certainly advise on Kelly's question and I shall do so in due course. Munton however has tired me out so I shall have to return to it later.

One question though. Is Kelly referring to a children's show (I notice he mentions young people) or an adult show? I can pontificate about both but the approaches are different.
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Postby Jager » 11/05/09 02:23 PM

Mark.Lewis wrote:One question though. Is Kelly referring to a children's show (I notice he mentions young people) or an adult show? I can pontificate about both but the approaches are different.

Mark, my question pertains to close up and parlour magic. By young people I meant 16-30 year olds.
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Postby Mark.Lewis » 11/05/09 02:38 PM

I didn't realise that it was for close up magic. That makes it slightly more complicated but it is indeed an important question. I have often said and it bears repeating even if people are sick of me saying it that any fool can learn to manipulate cards, coins etc; however the secret to becoming a great close up magician is learning how to manipulate the PEOPLE. I remember one incompetent magician in Ireland once telling me that it is not possible to manipulate the people.

He was wrong. You HAVE to manipulate the people if you are going to be any good. And your question addresses that issue. I am still tired out so will answer it later. It is actually a very important question.
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Postby Mark.Lewis » 11/05/09 04:20 PM

I will just touch on one aspect of Kelly's question and come back to the main thrust of it later. Again I am only referring to close up impromptu magic here rather than a parlour magic show or a more formal structure. I will try to cover these scenarios later.

Who do you use to help? You use EVERYBODY. Obviously there is going to be a bias towards the more receptive people and if you need to classic force a card then use that person.However even though the temptation will be to work to someone that reacts well don't work to them exclusively. Perhaps more than anyone else but not exclusively. YOu should work to everyone even if it just means somebody assists by doing something minor such as blowing on a card or saying a magic word.

You are there to entertain everybody so focus on everybody and make every person there feel important in some way. Try to BRING THEM INTO IT. Make it personal. If you focus on one person you are not spreading the magic. Spread your talent and charisma around to everyone whether they be miserable and grumpy, or an obnoxious heckler. EVERYONE should be attended to in some way. Impromptu close up audiences are usually very small so you should be able to use everyone.

Now you know. I shall expand on Kelly's questions later.
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Postby Glenn Bishop » 11/05/09 04:29 PM

Mark.Lewis wrote:I have often said and it bears repeating even if people are sick of me saying it that any fool can learn to manipulate cards, coins etc; however the secret to becoming a great close up magician is learning how to manipulate the PEOPLE.

Standing Ovation! Well said! I have very much enjoyed reading this thread - thanks again Mark.

Just my opinion.
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Postby James Munton » 11/05/09 04:37 PM

Mark,

I did not miss your point. Using a sucker trick for a Difficult Audience Member - let's call them a DAM - is a bad idea especially in a close-up situation.

And you are completely wrong about how I handle the situation. I would never reprimand a heckler. That's an even worse suggestion.

I've now read that bloody quote from Quentin about 2,400 times. You are very fond of posting it, sometimes several times a day. However, when considering your advice we should also take into account the fact that your close-up repertoire includes the most awful dice trick in the world (are there any other kind?) and the horrific Choo Choo Train trick. By the way, I notice that your Choo Choo Train thread is dying a miserable death. The only person to have any response to that big bag of bollocks is your silly shill Jolly Roger.

Now back to the important topic of handling DAMs.

Kelly does indeed raise an important point. When working in a strolling situation, you will typically have from 2 to 8 people watching. Choosing the first person to help is very important. Mark is right that you should use/include everyone, but you still need to choose someone to pick that first card.

There are many complex factors that go into this important decision which is made in an instant. If there is a DAM in the audience you can usually sense it. There is a subtle vibe when you approach the group, perhaps one person slightly bristles or you catch a certain look in their eye.

Whatever it is, you'll catch it as soon as you start speaking and as soon as you sense that you have a DAM on your hands you must determine something very quickly... what kind of DAM are you dealing with?

There are several kinds of DAMs and each type requires a different response. That is why it is ludicrous for Mark to simply tell you all to do a sucker trick which at best is ineffectual and at worst may lead to serious bodily harm.

Let's talk about the two most common types of DAM and how you might handle them.

1. The person who hates magic and magicians with a passion
2. The person who wants to be center of attention (alpha male)

Despite what the average Genii reader might think, there is a significant percentage of the population that thinks magicians are sad little losers who lack social skills and often have poor personal hygiene. And in many cases they are right.

If you meet this type of DAM in a strolling situation you either leave immediately and pass on to the next group, or you do a mercifully brief trick for the other people in the group and move on. You do not engage this type of spectator at all. You certainly do not do a sucker trick at all. If you do a sucker trick for a group that contains a Type #1 DAM, you will reinforce every negative stereotype they have about magicians. Not only that, the negative feelings will spread like a virus to the other members of the group infecting them with similar negative feelings.

No! You smile nicely and at least pretend you have a modicum of social skills and move on quickly. You may find that some of the group who are more receptive to watching some magic will leave the kill-joy and join you at another group.

The Type #2 DAM or alpha male is a fascinating type of spectator to work with.

It is true what Mark said that this type of DAM can sometimes turn into your biggest fan, but you need to have excellent skills to do this.

You must never do a sucker trick. Silly, silly advice from Mark. All that happens is the DAM thinks he has the upper hand and loves it until you smack him in the face with the sucker ending. Then he will feel the desire to literally smack you in the face in return.

The other huge mistake is to get into any kind of challenge situation.

No! Instead, you turn the Type #2 DAM into a co-conspirator. You give him some of the lime light. You let him do the magic and be the hero. You need to stoke his ego a little. Feed him some lines and let him supply the punchline.

Mark is again right that to be a successful close-up performer you need to manipulate the audience. With the Type #2 DAM, you need to first gain complete rapport before you start subtly leading him in the dance.

So in conclusion, if anyone is still reading at this point, Mark has some useful advice but he ruins everything with the nonsense about sucker tricks. Forget about the type of tricks and instead develop your observation skills. Try to determine what type of DAM you are dealing with. Think about their motivations. Close-up magic should never be a battle or challenge. It should be about everyone having fun together. Developing rapport is far more important than choosing an appropriate trick.

Best,
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Postby Tom Frame » 11/05/09 08:22 PM

Permit me to give a DAM. Im curious to hear how people deal with a third type of DAM. He neither hates magic, nor craves to be the center of attention.

This guy knows a wee bit of inferior magic. During your performance, he smiles knowingly, nods and whispers to his girlfriend. He is either explaining what he believes to be the method (and hes probably wrong), or hes telling his girlfriend what to look for in order to catch you doing the dirty work.

He is mildly disruptive and other audience members notice his whispering. They may ask him if he knows the method. He smugly nods and states in a low voice that he will explain or demonstrate the method to them later.

Any thoughts on dealing with this guy?
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Postby James Munton » 11/05/09 08:32 PM

Treat him exactly the same as Type 2. Give him the cards to shuffle. He will be nervous and his hands will shake. He may even start sweating. Resist the temptation to act superior towards him. Instead, compliment him saying things like, "you obviously know how to handle cards. I better watch out for you!" Give him a knowing wink to let him know you know he is part of the secret magicians' club. Boost his ego, the poor fellow needs it.

He will beam from ear to ear and after that will be your new best friend.

Best,
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Postby Jolly Roger » 11/05/09 08:58 PM

I feel I really should contribute something to Mark's excellent thread, but I have little to say. However, I will tell you that I discovered today that Munton's father is the same age as me, and my birthday was the same date as the late Carl Ballantine...September 27th. However, Carl was a little older than me. [censored] is much older than me! JR
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Postby Lee Almond » 11/05/09 09:04 PM

Excellent post James, I could not agree more with your statements above. I hate the damn sucker tricks, and some magi's wonder why the hell the lay people hate magic and magicians. BTW I also hate the word "fooled" use in the context of a magic effect or presentation. But understand I do not know EVERYTHING about magic and proper presentation like other's confess. Peace all.
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Postby Jager » 11/05/09 09:34 PM

I really like that solution James. I know this is Mark's thread but it's good to hear more than one solution to the same problem. I assume that what works for Mark might not work for you and visa versa. What works for either of you might not work for me either but the more options I have the more likely I will be able to find what best suits my style of performing.
Are you working on a book of your own James?
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Postby Jolly Roger » 11/05/09 11:14 PM

James Munton wrote:Mark,

By the way, I notice that your Choo Choo Train thread is dying a miserable death. The only person to have any response to that big bag of bollocks is your silly shill Jolly Roger.















James......you really do need to listen to me and Mark when it comes to children's entertainment. You have much to learn in this department, it seems. For those not too familiar with Mr. Munton, I understand that he opens up his children's show with the Hot Book. Very odd, if I may say so.

For those who might be interested, James and I will both be lecturing at a convention in Washington DC in January. It should be fun! As he used to live in that city, he has promised to take me on a pub crawl, and introduce me to his friends at the Whitehouse! Here is the link: www.KapitalKidvention.com

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Postby Mark.Lewis » 11/06/09 12:12 AM

Munton has got it wrong again. He obviously hasn't read my very first post where I explained my proviso that this approach was done in an impromptu situation usually for no money at all. Since all Moneybags Munton is interested is money and never performs impromptu I should be listened to not him. I hardly mentioned strolling magic and when I did I made plain that if the heckler was drunk as Munton often is then he can easily be avoided. And this applies to other types of hecklers too. But you don't have to if you are as good as me which James clearly isn't.

My advice to Mr Frame is just to simply read what I said before Munton interrupted the class. Since his irritant spectator is only a mild irritant it will be even easier to handle him. You must bring him into it and feed his sense of importance and you can indeed do what James said. It doesn't conflict in the slightest to what I said and you will note that he said he agreed with me except for the sucker tricks.

The sucker tricks are wonderful and I use them even when nobody is heckling. They have to be done in the correct manner and at all costs not in a smirky superior way. Some of the greatest card tricks of all time are sucker tricks such as 3 and a half of clubs, Dunbury Delusion, The long card, Matching the Cards and many, many more. If you do them in a smart alec manner then they won't work. You will of course note that Munton has a smart alec manner whereas you will also note that I am timid, quiet and humble. My style is the one to have if you do sucker tricks.

I also said that the sucker effects should be used only as a LAST RESORT. Most of the time if you follow my other suggestions you won't need it. You have to CHARM the heckler and Munton has as much charm as a poisoned rattlesnake.Anyone who performs the disgraceful bra trick and does the Hot Book at children's parties has a lot to learn. Not to say someone who denigrates the famous Dr Sacks dice trick. And of course Munton has never seen me perform it so he doesn't even know what he is
denigrating.

You can tell what a disgraceful person he is by the dreadful British profanity in his above post.

I have indeed posted the quote from Quentin Reynolds several times in order to annoy him and make him wish he hadn't said it. I shall also be shortly marketing his Punch and Judy show which I secretly taped one day when he wasn't looking. Not that it is any good anyway.

I haven't the slightest idea what DAM stands for. I do wish James would speak the Queen's English properly. I am afraid he has been in America too long.

Furthermore I must inform Mr Almond that I am [censored] and indeed know EVERYTHING about magic and it would behoove him not to question my great wisdom on these matters.

The sucker trick will work perfectly providing you come across as sweet, innocent and humble like me instead of an arrogant British ex-public schoolboy like Munton. It is part of the British Public School system (which actually means private school in the U.K) to breed students with great arrogance like James.

He is most ungrateful since if it weren't for my training he would not be a star TV hypnotist.

He really shouldn't be hijacking my thread because it delays the responses to other people since I have to waste time repling to him. I do hope he considers himself severely reprimanded.

In any case I shall have to delay my responses for a few days since in my capacity as an unholy man of the cloth I have to go on a divine mission of depriving the public of their money...erm.....I mean collecting donations from my congregation. From tomorrow my posts will decline for a few days although I may still be able to post a little. However my time will be more limited.

I do hope that Munton and others do not attempt to hijack this thread while I am otherwise occupied.
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Postby James Munton » 11/06/09 01:21 AM

Jager wrote:Are you working on a book of your own James?


Has Mark been nattering on about his book again? I must say I think it will be a most excellent book and probably a best seller as long as Mark doesn't mention the horrific Choo Choo Train trick.

I am not planning to write a magic book - that seems so 1990's. Even Richard Kaufman doesn't seem to do magic books any more. I will however have a very excellent and very expensive marketing course for sale to coincide with my lecture at the Kapital Kidvention in January.

After 10 years of being very successful in the Washington, DC area, I moved to Dallas, TX and literally had to build up my business from nothing. In 30 days my schedule was booked solid. I will tell you how I did it.

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Postby James Munton » 11/06/09 02:04 AM

Mark.Lewis wrote:I haven't the slightest idea what DAM stands for. I do wish James would speak the Queen's English properly. I am afraid he has been in America too long


If Mark actually reads my post, he will see that it is an acronym for Difficult Audience Member. He's obviously been in Canada too long.

I am glad to see he is now backing away from the sucker tricks and suggests people use them as a "LAST RESORT" (his capitals).

I see no difference between performing impromptu and performing at a paid gig. It is also perfectly possible to perform for drunks using the suggestions I have outlined. If you refuse to perform for drunks, as Mark recommends, you will eliminate 70% of your audience at the typical company holiday party, which will not go down well with the person who signs your check (who usually happens to be the drunkest person at the party).

Drunks like to have their egos stroked and sucker tricks can cause them to get physically violent. But if you can get the drunk person on your side, the rest of the group will love it. Be extra careful of a drunk woman. She can be very unpredictable. However, if you can get her on your side, you have a good chance of a shag.

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Postby mrgoat » 11/06/09 04:32 AM

I don't think I will be buying a marketing course from a man who tries to get drunken sex from his audiences.

And boasts about it.

What next? Roofies and Magic - All you need to know to get in her knickers?

Sigh.

Leave Rev Lewis' decent thread alone. Start your own with your awesome 'bedding women' advice if you want, but you are now spoiling a decent thread with your nonsense.
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Postby Mark.Lewis » 11/06/09 07:47 AM

Quite right Mr Goat. As for Munton's sudden disapproval of books
no doubt that is because he has already written one that seems to have been rejected by publishers and literary agents. I happen to know that he HAS written one although I know not what it was about. He has recently been trying to hawk it for sale to the general market but since he has quite gone off books it is a sign that the general market has shown great disinterest and quite right too. He ain't no Charles Dickens it seems.

The approach for impromptu audiences IS different than for paid gigs. I did say that a lot of the same techniques I espoused can be used for them. I have done many strolling gigs and the amount of drunks I have seen are few and far between so Munton is talking rot again. I expect the only person drunk at his gigs is himself. I happen to know that his alcohol intake is nearly as much as the Amazing Lambert that I referenced in my svengali book and he has already confessed this elsewhere. I have Jolly Roger as a witness.

Munton's suggestion for a difficult audience member is exactly the same as mine. No doubt he was copying from me. Great minds do think alike but if anyone thinks that Munton has a great mind then God may have mercy on their soul.

He agrees with every word I say except for the sucker tricks. That is because he has far too arrogant a personality to do sucker tricks successfully. And I didn't say you should do sucker tricks for drunks anyway. I said you should avoid drunks when you can.

Munton has admitted to avoiding hecklers who dislike magic but says he seeks out drunks. Hecklers who dislike magic are no different than hecklers who merely want to show off.They are still bloody hecklers. I am baffled as to why James is afraid of one but bravely engages the other. I can charm hecklers that don't like magic and make them change their minds (until they see James perform of course)and by the time I am finished they will be praising me to the skies.

Anyway Mr Goat is quite correct. Munton has been disrupting the class and has not apologised for doing so like Mr Bishop has done. If he wishes to pontificate about having sexual intercourse with drunken women and writing marketing courses to deprive magicians of their money or how to do the disgraceful bra trick or how the hot book is perfectly acceptable for children's parties or how awful Dr Sacks dice trick or how terrible Edwin's (not mine) Choo Choo trick is then he should start his own thread.

Besides hasn't he got shows this weekend?
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Postby Glenn Bishop » 11/06/09 10:02 AM

I have a question Mark. When doing a stand up show do you have a way of selecting people out of the audience? And when you do so how do you get them from the audience up to the stage?

I am talking about a grown up show not a kid show. In the U.S. Kids like to come up onto the stage and often many adults hesitate and are often reluctant to come up onto a stage.

Thanks in advance.
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Postby James Munton » 11/06/09 10:05 AM

Mr Goat,

You are guilty of the worst of all sins... you lack a sense of humor.

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Postby James Munton » 11/06/09 10:40 AM

Mark,

With regards to books, you know full well that I am one of the most well-read people you have ever not met. I was talking specifically about magic books. You yourself are fond of saying that you don't read magic books published after 1954 (which I think is a terrible insult to Richard Kaufman who published over 27,000 magic books between 1988 and 1999).

The problem is your advice is often as dated as the magic books you read. Although perhaps it is okay, because the only people you perform for these days are the old folks in retirement homes that David organizes for you. I have no suggestions on how to deal with octogenarian hecklers. I would defer to your vast experience of that particular group.

You are correct that I recently wrote a non-magic book, but as usual wrong about the other 90%. I was actually very successful in getting a literary agent (I had several fighting over me.) But I am beginning to think it was a big mistake because my agent seems worse than David Ben and he's having me rewrite almost everything before he submits it to publishers.

Mark.Lewis wrote:Hecklers who dislike magic are no different than hecklers who merely want to show off.They are still bloody hecklers.


In all seriousness, this is very poor advice indeed. If you were a doctor, you wouldn't prescribe the same medicine for everyone who came through your door.

If you are at a party and you came across someone who just does not want to watch any magic, why on earth would you impose your awful dice tricks on her?

In an instant you have turned from a magician to an "inflictor of magic."

If you can't see the difference after all these years, Mark, you are no better than the awful teenage restaurant magicians who think you should ambush people with lines such as "Did anyone drop a knife?"

Mark.Lewis wrote:Munton's suggestion for a difficult audience member is exactly the same as mine. No doubt he was copying from me.


Yes, it is a rare talent I have of copying people before they have said something. But I am glad you admit to agreeing with my excellent advice in your own funny way.

As for shows, I do indeed have a busy weekend including a show this evening in an upscale bar for a 50th birthday party where I am quite sure I will encounter plenty of drunks and Type #1 and #2 DAMs. I am tempted to do nothing but sucker tricks all night and report back how they went. However, I would like to actually get paid at the end of the evening.

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Postby Mark.Lewis » 11/07/09 12:52 AM

James. If you wish to be a blithering idiot would you kindly blither somewhere else? Start your own thread if you wish to blither. People are asking serious questions for which they require serious answers. While you are chattering here I haven't time to answer them. I shall simply say that I was doing this stuff when you were breastfeeding and I know what I am doing.

You are not saying anything different than me except for the use of sucker tricks. If you don't agree then keep your disagreement to yourself. If you don't like the Dr Sacks trick that is your pregorative. But keep it to yourself. I don't like the way you perform the hot book for children and encourage them to burn the house down and neither do I appreciate your awful bra trick which promotes magic for the lower classes. However I don't go on and on and on and on and on and on and on about it.

And I DON'T prescribe the same medicine for everyone. I play situations by ear and I am very skillful at it. I understand people inside out and I work according to what I have figured out about them as individuals.

And I NEVER inflict magic on people. This has never been my style. I believe in Leipzig's dictum of never performing unless coaxed. However I make sure they coax me. I have ways of doing this but I am not going to explain them to you since the effort would be wasted.

If people don't want to see magic they will within seconds of me working.They have no choice but again I haven't the space to explain why. But other people will coax me. I never perform unless people beg me to. I just manipulate matters so they beg-that is all.

The Dr Sacks dice trick is an absolute masterpiece if it is done in the right way and at the right time. Bob Sheets does it regularly from what I hear so why don't you go and make fun of him too while you are at it? I can assure you the reaction is tremendous.

With regard to publishers and literary agents EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM will ask for the manuscript to be rewritten. The conflict between editors and authors always results in a better book.

I really don't want to discuss this any more. This is MY thread and you are disturbing it. My time is very limited this weekend and I can't get to people's questions because of your interruptions so why don't you be a good chap and toddle off?
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