Lorayne's "4 X 4 Magic Square Breakthrough??

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Postby Guest » 03/22/05 09:14 PM

Does Lorayne's brilliant "4X4 Magic Square Breakthrough??" in the April issue outdo Chuck Hickock's "Diagonal Magic Square" effect on Hickock's website? Hickock is charging $35 for his effect; Genii is just charging $5 for the whole April issue!! Any thoughts?
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 03/23/05 10:12 AM

Harry was very generous in letting us have that for Genii!
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Postby Guest » 03/23/05 10:31 AM

Chuck's diagonal magic square is very easy to learn and do. Knowing both Chuck's and Harry's methods, I have to say Chucks is significantly easier.
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Postby Fred Zimmerman » 03/23/05 10:32 AM

It isn't easy to compare these two Magic Squares. What you're getting with Chuck Hickock's product is not just the square, it's also the routine. Chuck has created a nice presentation piece out of the square, and if you're thinking about adding one, it's a good starting point.

Upon my first reading of Harry Lorayne's article (and I admit, my first "reading" was more of a "skim") I thought, "This is confusing." But when I sat down and actually studied the thing. it turns out to be pretty interesting, and very easy and straightforward.

Most square presentations rely on a memorized set of numbers that will always appear, with simple formulae for generating the remaining ones. Harry's new version generates the square for real, using the many features of a fininshed magic square as the building blocks. (I won't get into the working of it--get the magazine as I've already told several of my friends to do.)

It also allows the spectator to name four numbers at random and place them into any row, column, or diagonal to begin the square. You then work the square out from there. This makes creating a birthday square that much quicker, or any other 4-digit number with meaning.

However, there are no presentation ideas offered, which is as it should be--the magic square is a tool around which you can build something interesting.

I liked the article a great deal and have been practicing it for several days now. Thank you Richard for getting it and publishing it.

Fred Zimmerman
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Postby Guest » 03/24/05 01:06 PM

I am stunned by the lack of response to this thread... Harry's "Breakthrough 4X4" gift to Genii is Awesome !! Thanks Harry !!
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Postby Guest » 03/24/05 01:20 PM

I was delighted to discover Harry's published method for the Magic Square and my method are DIFFERENT. It was very possible that Harry - on his own - stumbled on the same patterns I discover and published two years ago.

Both Harry's method and my method do the same thing. But, I believe my method (with my Learning Guide) is easier to learn...and easier to remember and use in the real world. It's currently used by many of the top mentalists I know.

One small point: There are a few combinations in Harry's Method (5,6,9 & 10 and 7,8 11 & 12) that do NOT add up to the "target number".

If you look at my site, you can see these combinations do add up to the "taget number" with my method:

http://www.chuckhickok.com./tools.html

Harry knows more about Magic Squares than anyone alive. He was very generous is publishing his method in Genii.

I will sell only 250 copies of my method. 180 copies have been sold already via word of mouth.

Chuck Hickok
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Postby Guest » 03/25/05 12:44 PM

Harry's method, as published in Genii, doesn't really break significantly new ground, though it does offer a very thorough view of how magic squares are constructed. Doing it Harry's way involves a great deal of adding and subtracting... none of it particularly onerous, but there's a lot, and many will find this challenging "under fire".

Chuck's earlier contribution (aside from an excellent routine) is not so much one of square construction; this, after all, is pretty much the same for any magic square. What he introduced was (1) the idea of letting the participant provide the first four numbers, rather than just a total; and (2) a vast simplification of the mathematics, reducing the work to something easily remembered and performed by just about everybody.

Anyone who has investigated both routines will agree that Chuck's is dramatically easier to remember and perform.

... Doug
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Postby Guest » 03/25/05 04:19 PM

Am I the only one who in 47 years has never seen the Magic Square performed? I'm not even sure what the effect is.

Jeff
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Postby Guest » 03/25/05 04:40 PM

Jeff:

Here ya go:

What is a Magic Square?

And by the way, when are you coming over to Cape Canaveral? The Mathieu Biche lecture was a long time ago!

Best,

Steve
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 03/25/05 05:23 PM

Jeff, the simplest method, which makes a stupendous presentation for laymen, is in Harry's The Magic Book. If you do this on a napkin for people in a restaurant, or on a blackboard (or dry erase board) in front of a large group, either way you will KILL. The new version gives you a lot more choices.
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Postby Guest » 03/26/05 10:26 AM

Any thoughts?

Yes -- Get them both!

I know Chuck and I kow Mr. Lorayne's work. Both very strong thinkers. Get both works and for $40 you'll have a pocket or stage size stunner...

reccomended

Mississippi Pete
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Postby Guest » 04/01/05 08:33 AM

I've always been interested in magic squares, but never bothered to put the time and effort to learn one. I recently bought Chuck's, and within fifteen minutes (I'm not kidding!) had it down cold.

His approach to teaching magic squares has been for me the most efficient way of learning how to generate one. The flexibility of Chuck's approach allows you to produce a series of magic squares that are all different, and the patterns learned will, with practice, allow you to construct the square in an almost haphazard manner which adds to the overall perceived complexity of the task at hand...

Definitely worth the price...

ajp
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Postby Guest » 04/02/05 06:14 AM

Opps...I said that

"One small point: There are a few combinations in Harry's Method (5,6,9 & 10 and 7,8 11 & 12) that do NOT add up to the target number."

I then claimed the numbers do add up to the target number with my Diagonal Magic Square. I had a brain cramp...they don't with my method either. My mistake.

Yet, I doubt a "layman" will ever notice this...unless you make the CLAIM that they do. In the last 10 years of performing, no one has ever pointed this out to me AFTER I showed all the combinations that DO add up to the target number.

Chuck Hickok
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Postby Guest » 04/03/05 07:16 AM

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
Jeff, the simplest method, which makes a stupendous presentation for laymen, is in Harry's The Magic Book. If you do this on a napkin for people in a restaurant, or on a blackboard (or dry erase board) in front of a large group, either way you will KILL. The new version gives you a lot more choices.
Richard,
I guess I'll have to take your word on it but I still don't get how this looks or comes across as magic.

Jeff Pierce
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Postby Guest » 04/03/05 09:56 AM

Jeff posted:
... I still don't get how this looks or comes across as magic.
It doesn't. It comes across as a powerful mental skill/ability, which is often the precursor to even more amazing things. This is why it is the favoured opener of many working mentalists.

If you want a magical version, look into Roy Johnson's Flash Square, or my own development of same, Flash Squared.

In all cases, though, we should remember that everything we do need not be "magic", but it should always be entertaining.

... Doug
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Postby Steve Bryant » 04/03/05 12:57 PM

Mike Rogers came up with a fantastic way to turn the Magic Square into magic. This is available on Joe Stevens' incredible Gemini resource at

http://www.stevensmagic.com/gemini/index.htm

Then click on Mike Rogers and then on his Numerology Hoax.

There is some great stuff on this Gemini site and especially in Mike Rogers' columns.
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Postby Guest » 04/28/05 05:54 AM

This article was extremely informative and very well written. Great piece. Thanks.
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Postby Guest » 05/04/05 01:39 PM

I finally saw the magic square performed on Alain Nu's second special and was impressed with the speed that he filled in the grid.
I agree with Steve Bryant on the Mike Rogers presentation looking more magical than memory.

Jeff
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Postby Guest » 05/13/05 03:09 PM

Craige Snader had a book out called "Mind Square."

It had a couple of viable routines in it, but I do not think it ever looked to me to be any more than what it actually was.
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Postby Guest » 05/22/05 05:36 AM

Using Doc Eason's money clip and the magic square in Harry's book, the magic square for any number can be done is less than 10 seconds! I carry my business cards in a minature carrying case. The clipped cards are in the case also. I use this as an encore to my close up act. I draw the square on the top half of the card, ask for any number between 1 and 100 and have the spectator write it on the bottom of the card and sign it It is then stated that I will try to break my record to finish the square in less than 10 seconds while the audience counts. I go through a rough time trying to get the numbers to add up and miss the 10 seconds by a second or two. Actually it can be done in 4 seconds.


For better or worse, this usually gets a greater applause and comments than the close up act. Particuarly when working for engineers and accountants!!!

Merl Hamen
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Postby Guest » 05/22/05 07:46 AM

I agree with Merl about its impact on laypersons, including professionals like engineers and accountants. It is on par with speed memorisation of a partial deck of cards.

By the way, I learnt how to do the Magic Square from AHEAD OF THE PACK, written by Lewis Jones and the late-Jack Avis. Lewis Jones taught me how to do the square in as many seconds as it takes to write the numbers into the grid. It is covered under the topic, "Square Bashing". I used this as an opener for a Parlour Magic Competition that bagged me an award. I always open my mentalism show with the Magic Square.

Lewis also applies it to birth-dates, which gives a strong reaction at close-up gigs. The birthday appears within the grid. Give it a go.

Cheers.

Enrico Varella
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Postby desertmanforever » 08/18/11 08:56 PM

Hello group,

These 4x4 magic squares are intriguing to me, too.

I can't find anywhere on the web that teaches me to construct one to obtain a horazonal, vertical, and diagonal same number.

Could someone PLEASE tell me how to construct one using the numbers of the top row:

11 08 52 09

Thanks
I hope I hear back from one of you,
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Postby Pete Biro » 08/18/11 09:37 PM

I am terrible with numbers and memory... so I have all the numbers written small on my fat marking pen, using it as a cue card.

No matter how poorly I do it, it always KILLS. Thanks to Harry Lorayne's published work.
Stay tooned.
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Postby Bill McFadden » 08/18/11 10:32 PM

Peat's absolutely right: many need not look further than Harry. BUT, if you really want get into a web source, check out: grogono.com
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Postby Ian Kendall » 08/19/11 03:18 AM

Read the first page of this thread, and you will get your answer.
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Postby Harry Lorayne » 08/19/11 10:16 AM

Just saw this thread. Wasn't available back in 2005, but now, on YouTube, if you know how to do it, you can find a video of me doing my Magic Square for a lay audience. You might be interesed in seeing that audience reaction. HL.
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Postby Bob Cunningham » 08/19/11 02:13 PM

Harry Lorayne wrote: Just saw this thread. Wasn't available back in 2005, but now, on YouTube, if you know how to do it, you can find a video of me doing my Magic Square for a lay audience. You might be interesed in seeing that audience reaction. HL.


Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeaTzZO8jTU

Great stuff!
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Postby Harry Lorayne » 08/19/11 02:37 PM

Thanks for putting that up, Bob. I have no idea how to do that.
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Postby Harry Lorayne » 08/24/11 07:02 PM

Seems as if nobody really cares!
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Postby Roy McIlwee » 08/24/11 10:07 PM

Harry,
I remember the tremendous reaction you got from some of the greatest magical minds at a late 1980s Tannens Jubilee convention after performing your "Magic Square". Roy McIlwee, Scranton, Pa.
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Postby Harry Lorayne » 08/24/11 11:58 PM

Thanks for remembering, Roy. I get the same reaction today. Bob was nice enough to put a Link to me performing it a few posts above, so people can judge for themselves. But, as I said above, seems as if nobody really cares.
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Postby F.Amílcar » 08/25/11 05:00 PM

It's a joy of magic Mr. Lorayne.GREAT

Just a question: What book explain the method?

Sorry for my ignorance and best wishes from Barcelona-Spain.



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Postby Harry Lorayne » 08/25/11 05:44 PM

I believe the method is taught in my book, The Magic Book. I don't have it here at my country home, so not sure. But, it's out of print - good luck finding a copy.
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Postby F.Amílcar » 08/25/11 05:58 PM

Mr. Lorayne:

Thanks for your kindness. I try to find a friend that have the mentioned book and I will read with enthusiasm.

Thanks for the information and take care.

Good night from Barcelona.



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Postby Harry Lorayne » 08/25/11 11:51 PM

Great. Grab 'em while you can!
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Postby F.Amílcar » 08/26/11 03:25 AM

Dear friends in magic, Richard and Harry:

Thanks to both for your interest and info.
Best wishes from Barcelona as always for your kindness again.

Richard: Dnde est el Sr. ROCA?

Truly yours,

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Postby F.Amílcar » 08/27/11 01:12 AM

Dear friend in magic Mr. Lorayne,

A close friend lend me the book that you mentioned, but I bought before in Penguin magic the book for myself.

Of course, is a book for beginners and that's what I am. How more read in magic more see that I know nothing.

Best regards,

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Postby Richard Kaufman » 08/27/11 10:37 AM

I have found Sr. Roca! And now I meet him every day. :)
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Postby Alfred » 08/28/11 08:33 AM

F.Amlcar wrote:Of course, is a book for beginners and that's what I am. How more read in magic more see that I know nothing.

F. Amlcar Riega i Bello.


While it's true that the more one learns the more one realizes how little one knowns, saying that you are a beginner is truly an understatement.

On another subject, I'm aware of many talented magicians that have learnt magic whilst visiting Sr. Roca; especially the shuttle pass. :D
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