Whats the buzz on the new Bicycle Box design?

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.

Postby jwalkmagic » 09/04/09 01:19 PM

I see that USPCC has a new box design for Bicycle cards.

Does anyone know if this is to be permanent? Are they planning changes to other decks like Tally Ho or Bee as well?

I for one like the old design. In fact I would much prefer if they went back to the older box with the longer flap but that would be to much to hope for.

I have a decent supply of the old boxes but sooner or later I will be forced into the new ones.

Here's hoping they change their minds.

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Postby Richard Kaufman » 09/04/09 02:15 PM

What new box design?
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Postby Bob Gerdes » 09/04/09 02:52 PM

From the US Playing Card Co. website:

Image
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Postby jwalkmagic » 09/04/09 03:08 PM

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Postby Tom Frame » 09/04/09 03:17 PM

On a somewhat tangential note, here is another developing story:

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/view ... rum=218&40
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Postby Dustin Stinett » 09/04/09 03:18 PM

Given that it's the Friday before a three-day weekend, I'm having trouble reaching my contacts (my company represents USPCC). Hopefully on Tuesday I'll have some luck and see what's up (if anything).

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Postby erdnasephile » 09/04/09 08:06 PM

While the Phoenix deck looks interesting, don't many magicians use Bikes as a way to attempt to dispel suspicion by using a deck that looks familiar to a lay audience?

I'm not looking to argue whether that matters or not, but it seems that the Phoenix concept undermines that whole rationale.
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Postby Tortuga » 09/04/09 09:23 PM

I saw the Phoenix design on the Cafe and I thought they looked pretty good. They have a built-in, one-way design that is visible on the edges so that it can be seen in a spread. There is another one-way mark in another area of the card. Very subtle though.

The Phoenix box looks great, pretty much like the old Bikes. The finish is supposed to be the same as Bicycles. I guess we'll see when they come out. I'd be happier if they printed them on the casino grade Bee stock, but you can't have it all.
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Postby jwalkmagic » 09/05/09 09:06 AM

I agree the Phoenix does look interesting but again to the lay audience who are already suspicious Bikes seem to work best.

Even Tally Ho - which handle very well for me - tend to get the old "Is that a trick deck?" question more often than Bicycles.

I tried the Masters edition decks but even the small change of the Ace of Spades and the box art raised some suspicion.

Lately I have been using the Gold Seal decks:

http://richardturner52.com/cards-games/bicycle-cards/

They are great - Bicycle backs on Bee stock.

I put them in a box with the regular seal. I don't know if any one would notice but.........

If I had my way many of the old decks from years gone by would be available. Any one remember the Aristocrat Deck from years ago. That was both a very beautiful back design and handled like a charm.
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Postby Tortuga » 09/05/09 11:21 AM

Funny, I never get questioned on whether I'm using trick cards. I'm sure it happens to others, perhaps the spectator once owned TV Magic Cards at one time?

Regarding old cards that I'd like to see come back, I agree that Aristocrat's were very nice. Especially if you prefer a smooth finish, which I do for gambling work. That's why I like Steamboats.

I absolutely loved the Angel Back Squeezers. I still have some, unopened and they'll stay that way probably. I also have some unopened Aristocrats and Bicycle Fan Backs from around 1980 that are unopened. The Fan Backs have a much less pronounced "Air Cushion" finish than the current Bikes and I like them very much.

Oh, another one of my favorites are Blue Ribbons. I still have a few. I like the small back on the back of the box. Don't remember the originator, but there is a color changing deck routine where the little card on the back of the box changes along with the deck. The rest of the box, whether red or blue backs, is a green color. Wish I could buy those again.

Does anybody know what back #2 is going to be in the Bicycle Special Edition Series? I very much like the white-backed edition #1.

Maybe some day I'll break down and sell some of my older cards, but for now it is nice to just gaze at them from time to time.

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Postby jwalkmagic » 09/07/09 10:48 AM

I have seen some rumors that they will stop printing gaff cards.
Any one know about that?

That would be a true tragedy.
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Postby Ray Eden » 09/07/09 01:51 PM

Michael Weber mentioned that Bicycle (U.S. Playing Cards) will be discontinuing gaff cards - if they haven't already. The explanation he gave was that China has been knocking off Bicycle cards, and Bicycle didn't have a legal defense to stop them because of the gaff cards. He also mentioned that U.S. Playing Cards switches hands all the time, and that the next owners may go back to making gaff cards. Anyway... that's what I heard.
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Postby Ray Eden » 09/07/09 01:51 PM

I'm wondering if the new box design may be a response to the China issue as well.
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Postby Jim Maloney » 09/07/09 04:23 PM

Interestingly, I was at Costco the other day, and the 12-packs had a new design for the outer packaging, including a picture of the new box design, but the actual boxes inside still had the same design.

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Postby jwalkmagic » 09/07/09 06:02 PM

>Michael Weber mentioned that Bicycle (U.S. Playing Cards) will be discontinuing gaff cards - if they haven't already. The explanation he gave was that China has been knocking off Bicycle cards, and Bicycle didn't have a legal defense to stop them because of the gaff cards.<

Thats a load of fertilizer.
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Postby Frank Yuen » 09/07/09 07:05 PM

Actually it's accurate but a bit simplified. Here's a link to more info from the Magic Cafe.

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/view ... 3&start=30
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Postby jwalkmagic » 09/08/09 05:55 PM

I still say its a load of fertilizer.

In what way does the altering of the back - IE adding or subtracting of angels - cause them to surrender their trademark rights?

I will be sure to ask my lawyer next time I see him but in my experience at most they need to trademark any alteration made to the back design and it will be covered.

In any case we are talking about a country that has almost no respect for trademark and copyright laws in the first place. These restrictions will in no way slow them down from producing knock offs.

It seems to me that they are to some extent shooting themselves in the foot here. While the market to magicians may not be the bulk of their business they get tons of free publicity from all the magicians who perform with their cards.

The possible loss of jumbo cards is also somewhat troubling to me but that may be easier to overcome than the loss of poker sized gaffs.

I'm still wondering about the box design itself. I have been able to get a couple of bricks of the old boxes at my local BJs as well as some of the new ones. I do not like the new box and I have a feeling that it will not play that well in general.

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Postby Jim Maloney » 09/08/09 07:48 PM

jwalkmagic wrote:In what way does the altering of the back - IE adding or subtracting of angels - cause them to surrender their trademark rights?


I'm not a lawyer, but I think the post over on the Cafe that included a direct response from a representative of USPCC covered that pretty well.

You could always e-mail him any questions you may have -- he did allow for his contact info to be shared publicly, as you can see in that same post over on the Cafe.

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Postby Bob Gerdes » 09/09/09 05:28 PM

I was at a CVS today, and they had 2-packs of jumbo index Bicycle cards with the new box design for sale. All the single Rider back decks were still the old box design.
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Postby Bill Mullins » 09/10/09 03:16 PM

Just bought a box of THESE at a local Rite-Aid drug store.
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Postby Dave Mithaca » 09/11/09 06:40 PM

Wow, I've got several routines which rely upon gaffed cards which I really have grown to enjoy performing over the years. I may have to stock up on a few extra sets of my favorite gaffed cards just in case there's something to the idea that these cards may become increasingly more difficult to obtain in the future.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 09/12/09 12:41 PM

Didn't any of you read my conversation with the woman in charge of custom printing at United States Playing Cards in Genii Speaks?
They will no longer print any altered BACK designs.

Gaffed cards that do not alter the back designs WILL continue to be printed: double-faced cards, double-backed cards, double blank cards, blank face cards, and blank back cards, and custom faces.

I also consulted my oracle in all matters of intellectual property law, Mr. Farmer, who agreed with their lawyers: printing altered versions of their trademark back design can dilute the legal status of the trademark and result in its loss.
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Postby jwalkmagic » 09/13/09 10:54 AM

What then of the boxes?

I have to presume that this is meant to be a permanent change but wonder if they are interested in any feedback on the issue.

As some of us have stated this seems to be an unpopular move amongst magicians. Do I need to save all the old boxes I have on hand?

Just wondering.

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