Bottom Feeders Hurt the business

Post topics about the business side of magic.

Postby Vick » 08/30/09 12:13 PM

Sorry,
I would like to share this with as many people as possible as I sincerely believe this hurts our arts for many reasons

Philip & Henry are Bottom Feeders (not news I know)
after the $80 a show yearly contract offered in large markets

Fun Magicians is also Philip and Henry

Here is what they charge per show from the P & H website
http://www.philipandhenry.com/rates_ad_n.htm adult shows

$380 - 30 minute show under 80 people
$589 - 30 minute show over 80 people
+ $300 to add 1 large illusion
$389 Mingle Magic one hour
There are more prices on the page


http://www.philipandhenry.com/rates_bday_n.htm Family entertainment
$380 - Family Event
$289 Birthday Magic (no show time length)
There are more prices on the page


I have also personally spoke to one of their agents who dropped the priced on a top act for a one hour adult show from $3,000 to $1,800 when I would not buy at $3,000


The family prices are about normal but ......
.....$80 to $150 to the performer
over 50% to Philip and Henry

It is our choice, we can work or not accept jobs from whomever we choose


One of my biggest beefs with P & H is whoever is going to work for these prices can't be every good (or is very desperate and doesn't understand their value)and seeing a poor show shapes the view the general public has of magic

P & H for local shows are putting out the performer that will work cheapest. Clients are not always getting a quality act and the reflects poorly on all of us.

As you well know when a party sees a poor quality act that shapes their opinion of magic and part of the reason why magic from it's once lofty place on the entertainment ladder is now relegate to the lowest rungs.


The choice is yours, support the degeneration of the art
Or take a stand and demand the pay you are worth

If no one took a local P & H job for one month due to low pay .......
Vick
 
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 08/30/09 12:37 PM

Anyone seen these guys work?
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Postby Vick » 08/30/09 01:26 PM

P & H have some top end performers who are talented. Timothy Drake and Ron Saylor both do shows for P & H


P & H could/would not say who the local performer would be when I called for a one hour adult/corporate show
They tried to push a national act for 3K (and dropped price to $1,800) when the show price given (and my budget)was $950 for one hour.

I explained I wasn't going to invest $950 of my companies funds without seeing who the performers was
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Postby Dave V » 08/30/09 01:47 PM

That's why I don't book hotels with Priceline. I want to see what I'm getting for my money before I break out my credit card.
"I still play with a full deck, I just shuffle slower"
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Postby Jeff Haas » 08/30/09 09:26 PM

Philip & Henry understand marketing on the internet. They have figured out how to get good search rankings on Google, and what to put in their ads, and how to talk to clients on the phone, to get people to call and book with them. After accepting a booking for a show, if they don't have a magician already on file, they will call around in the client's local area to find a magician who will take the work.

If you have a website they will probably call you at some point. Then you will find out first-hand what their rates are and how they work.
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Postby Bob Cunningham » 08/30/09 10:29 PM

I'm not sure how these guys are bottom feeding?

In any business, the tough part is selling. Anyone can make a better mouse trap, but the world will not a beat a path to your door. You need a sales team to sell our mouse traps.

I make my living by providing technical training. I primarily work with 3 companies. One of these companies has a market niche of providing very high quality training for top dollar fees. The other companies are discount training houses and I make much less when I work for them.

I try to fill my weeks with classes from the higher paying company, but when I can not making money with the lower paying companies is better than a stick in the eye.

In all cases I get paid MUCH less than these companies charge the client. This makes perfect sense to me because they make the sale. A sales machine (whether internet based or not) is a powerful thing and worth a lot of money.

Just a thought from someone not in the magic business.

/Bob
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Postby Jeff Haas » 08/31/09 04:57 AM

Bob, P&H do no screening of the magicians they book. They will book almost anyone who will accept their fee.

I assume that when your technical training companies create a quote for clients, they already know what staff they have available and what they can deliver; they don't sell a class and then call around to see if someone out there claims to do that class and will do it for the lowest possible price.
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Postby Bob Cunningham » 08/31/09 07:48 AM

You're right Jeff. All the training brokers I work with go through considerable effort to make sure the instructors they hire are qualified.

They do that out of enlighten self interest. Training companies make most of their money on repeat business.

I assume that P&H is NOT dependent on repeat business for their success. The good news is that this would seem to be a market opportunity for those of you offering a superior entertainment experience ;-)
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Postby Yeeri » 06/17/10 02:04 AM

I agree majority of bookers will NOT buy someone without knowing more about the guy - what a shock!? huh?
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Postby Jim Sisti » 06/17/10 02:04 PM

Of course, if you can't make the Philip and Henry cut, you can always be a "budget magician."

http://www.budgetmagicians.com/
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Postby Tim Ellis » 08/29/10 04:39 AM

We have someone here in Aus using the same business model.

He's gone through most of the magicians and is now almost universally hated.
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