Banned from Blackpool for my "Safety"

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Postby Tim Ellis » 08/24/09 10:34 AM

So was the attempted expulsion BEFORE Derek Lever awarded Paul The Murray Award in 1988?
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Postby naquada » 08/24/09 10:56 AM

its sad that the fism2012.org domain is being used like this...
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Postby Q. Kumber » 08/24/09 12:14 PM

Tim Ellis wrote:So was the attempted expulsion BEFORE Derek Lever awarded Paul The Murray Award in 1988?


I can't give you the exact year but I'm pretty sure it was well before the Murray Award. I know that Paul Daniels Magic sets were available in 1983 and the smaller one trick sets came shortly afterwards.
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Postby Magic Newswire » 08/24/09 02:02 PM

I remember Paul commenting on UK Magic conventions in my interview with him. In addition, when asked about the Blackpool convention for a written interview, his response was:

Paul Daniels: UK conventions were ruined for me by bitchiness and jealousy, which is a real shame because that was where I met so many of my friends. Now I only go to foreign conventions where, to be honest, I am greeted with respect and civility AND I have tons of foreign magician friends.

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Postby Q. Kumber » 08/24/09 04:59 PM

I think you'll find that Paul is referring to British conventions in general, not Blackpool in particular. For a time that was a lot of jealousy over Paul, especially by magicians who felt that it was they who should have been on TV.

I remember one evening at an IBM convention standing around with a group of magicians as Paul answered questions for about 90 minutes. Ali Bongo was doing his nut saying, "He's giving too much away." To those who would listen the information was pure gold.

After Paul left, I heard one magician say to his friend, "Who does he think he is, the big headed git?"

There was also a controversy in ABRA magazine when Paul wrote a letter about magicians attending his show doing card tricks in the foyer of the theatre. It got quite nasty.

I've never known anyone in the magic profession to be so free and generous with practical commercial information than Paul.

Paul's interview is well worth reading and I add this question and answer which sums up what I've been saying:

Laura: And finally, what is the most valuable bit of advice you have received during your career as a magician?
Paul Daniels: From Ken Brooke when I didnt win a magic competition at a convention: Dont change son. Youve got it right for the public, and the silly buggers dont know.


Ken Brooke was right and most of the silly buggers still don't know.
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Postby CraigMitchell » 08/24/09 05:22 PM

Further reports.

Extracts from a letter written by Mr Lever to one of the many people on his banned list:

"We can choose to ban whoever we wish for whatever reason. You ... all staff and business associates of yours are all banned from attending the Convention. We will not be giving any details as to why you are not attending."

Again - if you have been banned or know of anyone who has been banned from Blackpool and are wishing to attend FISM 2012 - please contact me. FISM 2012 offer a great special - book 12 registrations and get 1 free ...
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Postby Master Payne » 08/24/09 05:30 PM

Wow, who'd have thought Blackpool had become such a dangerous place with vigilantes and drougie's marauding about.

Perhaps their poster for this event should reflect this dismal and distressing turn of events

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Postby Tim Ellis » 08/24/09 05:37 PM

Craig, you're in good company. The Rolling Stones were banned for 44 years from Blackpool

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Postby Jim Riser » 08/24/09 05:42 PM

Craig;
It seems to me that if you have been banned because your safety can not be assured, then (by implication) everyone else's safety at the convention(s) in Blackpool is assured. Is the BMC opening themselves up to lawsuits from anyone who might be mugged or merely threatened? This could get very expensive for the BMC. I do hope that they are well insured.
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Postby Magic Newswire » 08/24/09 06:42 PM

Master Payne wrote:Perhaps their poster for this event should reflect this dismal and distressing turn of events

You have to love it when Clockwork Orange enters a discussion of magic clubs. Dan Sperry is starting to win me over his side.
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Postby Master Payne » 08/24/09 06:58 PM

Magic Newswire wrote:You have to love it when Clockwork Orange enters a discussion of magic clubs. Dan Sperry is starting to win me over his side.



I was going to do an Homage to Albert and the Lion as it starts out "There's a famous seaside place called Blackpool, that's noted for fresh air and fun"

But it's far to obscure. But than as we all know, Sometimes the Jokes are Just for Me :)
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Postby Razamatazz Magic » 08/24/09 07:39 PM

FISM's main priority surely is to promote magic and the magic art ??? To help and to inform, to enlighten and to encourage people to enjoy the world of magic.

Already it's off to a depressing start and it's still over 2 years away !!!
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Postby Magic Newswire » 08/24/09 11:16 PM

naquada wrote:is it then right to bullying someone electronically?


Bullying? OK... let's talk bullying... Wouldn't banning someone for having a differing opinion be bullying? Especially when it can be randomly applied to friends and family of the person that has expressed the opinion. I agree with regard to impersonation, but really.... who is the bully in this topic?
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Postby Francesca Moffet » 08/25/09 04:16 AM

If enough people lodge complaints then surely the resposibility of organising FISM will be taken away from Derek Lever wouldn't it?

Perhaps a few carefully worded emails to certain people would teach him that he is not all powerful after all...
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Postby Nathan Muir » 08/25/09 04:21 AM

Richard Kaufman wrote:I wonder if the rules of FISM itself allow people to be banned for no good reason other than expressing an opinion--a right that is protected speech in the UK (I assume). I'll be contacting Eric Eswin for an informed decision about this.
It seems outrageous to me.


I guess it's the same as running an Internet forum. If you run it, you make the rules and you can ban people "for no good reason other than expressing an opinion", or typing in all caps or whatever. Seems analogous to me.
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Postby mrgoat » 08/25/09 04:41 AM

Nathan Muir wrote:
Richard Kaufman wrote:I wonder if the rules of FISM itself allow people to be banned for no good reason other than expressing an opinion--a right that is protected speech in the UK (I assume). I'll be contacting Eric Eswin for an informed decision about this.
It seems outrageous to me.


I guess it's the same as running an Internet forum. If you run it, you make the rules and you can ban people "for no good reason other than expressing an opinion", or typing in all caps or whatever. Seems analogous to me.


Nothing like that at all.

One is a private board. Like a private house. Mr K invites us all in here and if we [censored] about he will ban us.

FISM, however, is far from a private house. It is a public space governed by elected officials.

Those elected officials then chose a host every 4 years to put on an event.

If that host acts like a unhinged bully, banning people, dealers and families from attending, I think he shoudl be removed from his position.

I get it. He has run his convention for many years and thinks he is god. He thinks the quasi-power he gets from Blackpoo Magic extends to FISM.

I think he's wrong.

I also think everyone who agrees with me should email the president of FISM and let him know your thoughts.
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Postby CARL DE ROME » 08/25/09 04:43 AM

I have known Derek Lever for many years now, and I'm really sorry to hear that you have been banned from Blackpool by him,
But you must look on the bright side of this,
You're now in the elite squad of the MANY magicians that Derek Lever has banned from his gatherings over the past years.
If you have been banned from His convention? you can also rest assured that you will also not be welcome at the Blackpool committees new theatre, or to any events or lectures that Derek Lever runs,
You will also not be welcome to any of the special auctions that he runs, and you will also not be welcome to have anything to do with the magic club he started in Manchester, the Manchester Circle of Magicians I think it is called.
So on this assumption any person he has banned from the Blackpool Convention over the years,
And there are many including Myself, all these people will also NOT be allowed to attend F.I.F.M. 2012 In Blackpool. Thats a lot of revenue FISM is going to loose.

The really sad and the worst point in this, is Not only will you have a banning order placed on you, for all of Derek Levers events, but also ALL you're family and if you are a dealer ALL you're staff, will also be banned as well, so if you are banned,
Any friends you have must not mention they are you're friends as they will probably also be banned.

This is hard to believe in this small world of magic, that just one person can have so much power to do exactly what he likes or feels like, with absolutely no consideration what so ever of who he hurts,

I do have the feeling that if you carry on with this, you might get this years mention in his convention welcome that he gave to myself in last years Blackpool program. Featured above in this thread
He might even do the same to you as he did to me in last years Gala Show, and beam up onto the stage by Giant TV screen for 3200 magicians, A photograph of you with a gun placed to you're head, With the Nike logo below it, and also he placed the wording asking me to blow my brains out in front of everyone.

Lastly I'm not sure if I am allowed to mention this ?, If not I am surethe moderators here on the Geni Forum will take the link away
But my full dealings with no holds barred with Mr Derek Lever over all these years,
all the details are up on my web site for everyone to read. www.cdrmagic.com/info

Cheers
CARL DE ROME
Also known by Derek Lever as the
Uncouth, Illiterate, Big-mouthed, Buffoon, from Norway,
Actually I am from Blackpool in England.
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Postby mrgoat » 08/25/09 05:32 AM

CARL DE ROME wrote:He might even do the same to you as he did to me in last years Gala Show, and beam up onto the stage by Giant TV screen for 3200 magicians, A photograph of you with a gun placed to you're head, With the Nike logo below it, and also he placed the wording asking me to blow my brains out in front of everyone.


Wow.

So he incited a room full of people to actually kill you.

That is astounding.

Sadly, the link doesn't work, but because I think the /info page isn't actually there. Your main site works fine. Would love to hear the history from your POV.
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Postby Francesca Moffet » 08/25/09 06:15 AM

He actually pulled that kind of sick stunt in public?

Utterly appalling. Things like that will scare people off as they'll be worried that they'll do something to provoke him...and then be on the receiving end of his disgraceful bullying.

Hard to believe these are the actions of a grown man as they are things that an 8 year old would find amusing.
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Postby Ian Kendall » 08/25/09 06:15 AM

Damian - the link is http://www.cdrmagic.com/info.htm

Can't believe you didn't try that...
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Postby Q. Kumber » 08/25/09 06:18 AM

CARL DE ROME wrote:He might even do the same to you as he did to me in last years Gala Show, and beam up onto the stage by Giant TV screen for 3200 magicians, A photograph of you with a gun placed to you're head, With the Nike logo below it, and also he placed the wording asking me to blow my brains out in front of everyone.


Maybe my memory is failing me but I don't recall any such happening at the gala show.
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Postby Sebastien L. » 08/25/09 06:19 AM

I've got to say that as someone completely uninvolved with this that this Mr. Lever sounds completely unhinged and that if the FISM general assembly doesn't act, FISM itself would seem to not be working in the interest of all magicians.
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Postby mrgoat » 08/25/09 06:33 AM

Ian Kendall wrote:Damian - the link is http://www.cdrmagic.com/info.htm

Can't believe you didn't try that...


I tried hmtl and not htm!

Jebers, I feel like a lamer.

Thanks!
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Postby naquada » 08/25/09 06:38 AM

Magic Newswire wrote:Bullying? OK... let's talk bullying... Wouldn't banning someone for having a differing opinion be bullying? Especially when it can be randomly applied to friends and family of the person that has expressed the opinion. I agree with regard to impersonation, but really.... who is the bully in this topic?


Dodd my comment was 'is it then right...' meaning whatever the disagreement.. is it THEN right for mr goat to set up a twitter account to impersonate someone?

I dont really want to get into this debate more as I was stung by various people in connection with a certain southern convention who attempted to hijack our website/trading-mark for their own ends, threw all sorts of accusations at me and insults because of their 'assumptions'.. I dont (And I know others dont) want to go through that distress and upset again..

that was also bullying, but on the part of people who accused others of bullying.. including at least one person who has posted on this thread.. yet strangely no one said a word about it...

it would actually be nice if everyone got along.. but i'm out of here on this one..
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Postby CraigMitchell » 08/25/09 06:55 AM

"it would actually be nice if everyone got along"

Confirmed.

I am confident that once the relevant parties in the organisations have had an opportunity to review this matter - a reasonable way forward will be announced to ensure that no person is unfairly excluded.
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Postby CARL DE ROME » 08/25/09 08:11 AM

Hello there Mr Goat, ( you're not called Billy are you )

No what he did was. During the interval of the Gala Show up on the Giant screen,
on the stage of the Opera House In Blackpool, this is the Biggest theatre in Europe,

I was informed by many magicians that he beamed a head and shoulders promotional photograph of myself up onto the stage with a revolver to my head, and underneath this he put the words,
Go on then I dare you, Pull the trigger, then after a few minutes later it changed to
Come on then do it, do it. I dare you
If I had attended this convention myself I would have been up onto the stage personally to sort it out myself,
Unfortunately I only found out about this, and his wordings about me in the Convention program on the Mondayafternoon, The day after the convention had finished.

I have just been onto my web site to check it out and all is working OK, so here is the link again.
http://www.cdrmagic.com/info.htm But just incase it does not open, Try and open up my web site www.cdrmagic.com and on the left hand side click on the News/info tab, this will work
And the FULL story of the Carl DeRome/ Derek Lever saga is there in its entirety,
You will NOT believe it, but I swear every word is true,

I've been requested, Sorry Ordered to take it down by Derek Lever and his Friends, Including Duncan Trillo the owner and boss of MagicWeek the UK online weekly magic E Magazine.
But I'm a stubborn sod and refuse to do so. This is something magicians everywhere need to know about what's happening with the organizer of the worlds biggest magic convention..
And how he likes to play the big man, or as I and others have put play God.

Because I have spoken out and informed people of what Derek Lever is really like MagicWeek have now taken away all references to our shows, and taken away all links advertising our show from the magicians page , and now flatly refuse to have anything at all to do with what me and my wife/assistant Merete do, or even mention our name.

By the way MagicWeek was awarded the Murray Award at last years convention, from Derek Lever and the Blackpool Magicians Club, Coincidence or what?. you decide???


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Postby CraigMitchell » 08/25/09 08:46 AM

Mr Lever did indeed believe in freedom of speech in 1979 - 1983.

"The Derek Lever Magic Magazine started in October 1979 and the final issue was published in August 1983. When Derek Lever launched Magic Mag he felt that the entire magic scene had become stagnant and uninteresting and once the magazine was launched he was not afraid of having a dig at anyone and everyone. It was an outspoken magazine ..."

Mr Lever was entitled to an opinion. Mr Lever was entitled to publish that opinion. But no one else may do the same ?
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Postby Q. Kumber » 08/25/09 11:16 AM

It's now starting to look like to me this was a well-planned strategy by Craig Mitchell, possibly in cahoots with Carl de Rome, to see if he could get himself banned from Blackpool.

It's one thing to offer an opinion, it's another to knock it home with a sledgehammer all over the internet.

Everyone seems to be unanimous of the principle of Freedom Of Speech. If you agree with it, you must also agree that others have the freedom to respond. Some will respond with words and some with actions and some will ignore you.

If you tell your boss what you think of him, you can't complain if he fires you.
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Postby CraigMitchell » 08/25/09 11:28 AM

Quentin, with the greatest of respect I am afraid you are wrong and comes across as a cheap shot to attack my credibility.

If you believe that my goal was to get banned - then I'm afraid you are sorely mistaken and I take great offence at the suggestion.

"If you tell your boss what you think of him, you can't complain if he fires you."

Mr Lever is not my boss nor is he the 'boss' of any FISM delegate. The facts remain.

It is interesting though to contrast in general the response to this matter of those in the UK to those outside of the UK - with a potential sanction hanging over anyone's head that may not toe the 'party' line.
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Postby mrgoat » 08/25/09 11:52 AM

naquada wrote:Dodd my comment was 'is it then right...' meaning whatever the disagreement.. is it THEN right for mr goat to set up a twitter account to impersonate someone?


Yes why on earth shouldn't one be allowed to take the piss out of someone else? Especially someone as seeming worthy as Mr Lever.

Fortunately the law allows satire.

It's not so keen on inciting 3,200 people to kill someone though.
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Postby mrgoat » 08/25/09 11:57 AM

Quentin Reynolds wrote:If you tell your boss what you think of him, you can't complain if he fires you.


Lever is the boss of a magic club in Blackpoo.

He is not the boss of Craig, nor of FISM.

Craig should be allowed to say what he thinks about anything without fear of being BANNED from an event not owned by Lever. And threatened. It's disgusting.

And you seem to be the only person supporting Lever here. Is he paying you to post?

I have emailed every contact on the FISM website informing them of this thread and asking if they approve of Lever's infamous ban list now being applied to their convention. I will post any replies I get here and on Blackpool Magic Sucks
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 08/25/09 12:42 PM

So far this reads as backhanded publicity for the next FISM. Sort of an 'are you tough enough to handle...' campaign.

Interesting poster for the convention - perhaps get Malcolm McDowell to MC too?
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Postby mrgoat » 08/25/09 12:47 PM

Doh. Got the link wrong. Although I am now 3rd on google for Blackpool Magic Sucks. In 48 hours. Which shows the weight Google puts on domains.

Search engine optimisation is EASY.

;)
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Postby Tom Stone » 08/25/09 12:55 PM

mrgoat wrote:And you seem to be the only person supporting Lever here. Is he paying you to post?

Careful. A thread like this can easily lose focus, and then the whole topic will lose credibility on all sides. It's better to ask Quentin, kindly, about his posts, than to assume he is a puppet.
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Postby Tom Stone » 08/25/09 01:11 PM

Quentin Reynolds wrote:It's now starting to look like to me this was a well-planned strategy by Craig Mitchell, possibly in cahoots with Carl de Rome, to see if he could get himself banned from Blackpool.

Quentin, I can not quite follow the logic in this theory. I'd be grateful if you could explain it more clearly.

Had the chronology been reversed, I certainly would see your point.
That is, if it had started with Craig's "sledgehammer" style, and that he then got banned.
But, to me, it seems like it is the opposite - the ban came first, and the "sledgehammer" protests came afterwards.

If I have misunderstood anything, please correct me.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 08/25/09 01:56 PM

The thing I see lacking at the moment is a concrete connection between being banned from the regular Blackpool convention and being banned from FISM 2012 which is being run by the same people and which will take place in Blackpool. Unless someone sends in his or her registration for FISM 2012 and has it returned, or repeatedly ignored, we cannot say that anyone is being banned with certainty.
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Postby CraigMitchell » 08/25/09 02:10 PM

And thankfully we are not going to have find out because Mr Lever will now be required to acknowledge that no one can been banned from FISM without due process nor will anyone be excluded ( dealers too ) as a result of any arbitrary BMC bans in place.

Lest we forget:

"Blackpool Committee ... will decide whether I was eligible for a Fism ticket"

or

i have already been told my a member of bmc that anyone derek has barred wiil not be allocated tickets for fism and i have already been refused a dealer booth and a guy who was working for me was told he would not be able to attend either

Any inference, suggestion or unspoken understanding of a 'ban' will instantly be removed and we will have guaranteed the right of anyone to apply.
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Postby Tom Stone » 08/25/09 02:24 PM

Craig, I just noticed the fism2012.org site.

If you want the main FISM organisation to ensure that you are treated fairly, I don't think that cybersquatting is the best way. I suggest that you move that site to another domain.
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Postby CraigMitchell » 08/25/09 02:41 PM

This is a side issue Tom - but cybersquatting is registering a domain name with *bad faith* intent to commercially profit from it.

Nothing precludes them from selecting another name of their choosing ( fism2012blackpool ? ) or as they are currently doing -blackpoolmagic.com where all the relevant info can be found.

My site is setup to serve as a home for all things related to fism in blackpool reports, videos, photos, updates & more in the lead up to the big event - and provides a much appreciated service by many. I have been reporting on FISM since 1997 and my reports have grown to a stage where they are syndicated across the internet with an ever-increasing readership. It only makes sense to have these centralised.

I had intended to bring readers a first hand view of preparations leading upto FISM by visiting Blackpool in 2010 - to provide an indepth look at the venues, facilities etc. but that is now obviously not to be ( and hence my postings on the matter ) If the organisers of the preceding events have deemed me to be 'persona non grata' - then there is not too much I can do in terms of getting access ahead of time. But that is a situation of their own making.
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Postby Magic Newswire » 08/25/09 02:45 PM

I do not agree with someone setting up a fake Twitter account to impersonate someone. Fortunately, Twitter acts quickly to address such occurrences if the offended party contacts them.

I too think it best that we keep this discussion on track. I know of the Southern convention and the issues that were involved in that incident.

For the record, there were some very nasty comments posted about Mr. Lever at the Magic Newswire which were nothing but petty name calling. They were immediately deleted as they offered nothing constructive to the conversation.
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