Banned from Blackpool for my "Safety"

Discuss the latest news and rumors in the magic world.

Postby Tim Ellis » 08/23/09 05:29 AM

Maybe Craig will get a special mention in the 2010 Blackpool Programme like Carl De Rome did this year...
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Postby CraigMitchell » 08/23/09 06:01 AM

WOW !
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Postby mrgoat » 08/23/09 06:17 AM

Quentin Reynolds wrote:This must be the most ironic thing ever posted on the GENII forum.
He should be sponsored by Blackpool Tourism:

"The man who hates Blackpool so much he cannot stay away!"


or

"The man that loves magic so much, he will even put up with a [censored] like this!"
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Postby naquada » 08/23/09 07:06 AM

i would be EXTREMELY careful with that twitter id.. terms and conditions of twitter state,amongst other things:

"You must not abuse, harass, threaten, impersonate or intimidate other Twitter users."

they take things that like extremely seriously.. as would anyone.. firstly impersonating Derek Lever.. secondly the ID was obvisouly set up to fuel this argument (it was set up on the 23rd august 2009)
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Postby naquada » 08/23/09 08:01 AM

is it then right to bullying someone electronically? using a system that someone probably doesnt understand or use to impersonate them ?

regardless of the person, the history or anything else, it is not right to use their name and assume there identity to push out statements and comments that appear to be from them.

but I'm glad you removed it.
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Postby mrgoat » 08/23/09 08:40 AM

naquada wrote:is it then right to bullying someone electronically? using a system that someone probably doesnt understand or use to impersonate them ?

regardless of the person, the history or anything else, it is not right to use their name and assume there identity to push out statements and comments that appear to be from them.

but I'm glad you removed it.



There are hundreds and hundreds of fake blogs, fake twitter accounts, fake sites. It's called satire.

I have deleted it because I was asked to by the poor man Lever is bullying. Not because of any moral reason.
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Postby CraigMitchell » 08/23/09 02:49 PM

It seems that Mr Lever has indeed 'banned' many, many people over the years from his Blackpool Magicians Club. The below was sent to me:

"Derek Lever has banned Alan ( New owner of Tommy Cooper Magic Blackpool) plus all, his Family and friends, Including Alans 13 year old daughter who has done no harm to anyone at all, and loves magic, But because of her banning she is not allowed to attend the Blackpool Convention."

There now appears to be a widespread belief that Mr Lever has extended these 'bans' to automatically include FISM 2012. Alan Chester - owner of the Tommy Cooper Magic Shop in Blackpool - writes:

"Anyone banned from blackpool magicians club events and manchester events are also barred from FISM when it comes to blackpool but don't worry folks our shop will still be open and look out for our magic auction at the end of september"

FISM's stated aim is to "enhance, promote and develop the Art of Magic"

I have requested Eric Eswin - FISM's International President - to confirm with Mr Lever that he is indeed NOT attempting to exclude any dealers or registrants from attending FISM 2012 on the basis of Mr Lever's personal ban lists.

FISM is obviously open to any magician worldwide and it is imperative that this be known - especially to those who find themselves on the 'Blackpool Magicians Club banned list'

If you ( or know of anyone who has been banned ) by Derek Lever -and are wishing to attend FISM 2012 either as a delegate or dealer - please contact me mitch@intekom.co.za
Last edited by CraigMitchell on 08/24/09 12:49 PM, edited 0 times in total.
Reason: Awaiting written confirmation per CM
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Postby Kenardo » 08/23/09 03:28 PM

In light of these postings, I think we should all contact our FISM ambassadors and ask that FISM conduct an investigation into these past FISM bans (see Tom Stone's earlier thread) and the past bans at Blackpool and how they may affect the upcoming FISM. The ethics of a FISM host organization should be considered when choosing a FISM site and should be a factor, if necessary, for reversing an earlier decision.

If enough ambassadors are contacted and pushed to speak up, Eric Eswin and the FISM body may have to take action to prevent damage to its reputation and the success of the next World Championship of Magic.
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Postby Tom Stone » 08/23/09 04:48 PM

Kenardo wrote:In light of these postings, I think we should all contact our FISM ambassadors and ask that FISM conduct an investigation into these past FISM bans

It is likely that the individuals who have been banned or mistreated will become targets for severe mud-slinging, if questions are asked. It's easier, and less hurtful, to just accept that some of us are not welcome.
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Postby Nathan Muir » 08/23/09 05:14 PM

Wow, Tom, that's a particularly cowardly approach. Not the way we do things in the free world.
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Postby Zig Zagger » 08/23/09 05:28 PM

WOW, if only half of this is true, Mr Lever should be ashamed of himself from here to Beijing!

We will see what FISM 2012 will stand for - hopefully not "Feudal Idiots Suppressing Magicians".

A friend of mine I have talked to about this considers entering the next competition in Blackpond - in the "Mental Illness" category - as The Great Dreck Leverage, producing John Milton's Areopagitica from his square circle and slapping it into someone's face... so watch out for him!
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 08/23/09 05:44 PM

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Postby Tom Stone » 08/23/09 05:44 PM

Nathan Muir wrote:Wow, Tom, that's a particularly cowardly approach. Not the way we do things in the free world.

Well, when idealism run into the brick wall of realism, one get a different perspectiv of things. Some fights can not be won.

I spent 1.5 years trying to find out the reason why I was not allowed to compete at FISM2006. Did not get any real explanation, instead I became the target of an extreme mud-slinging that left me more or less alienated from the whole Swedish magic scene.
So, yes, I regret that I asked about the reason.
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Postby IrishMagicNews » 08/23/09 06:02 PM

Tom Stone wrote:I became the target of an extreme mud-slinging that left me more or less alienated from the whole Swedish magic scene.


And that is why this is the only comment I will post in this thread.

In the words of WB Yeats....Thread Carefully
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Postby Tim Ellis » 08/23/09 07:28 PM

Tom Stone wrote:
Nathan Muir wrote:Wow, Tom, that's a particularly cowardly approach. Not the way we do things in the free world.

Well, when idealism run into the brick wall of realism, one get a different perspectiv of things. Some fights can not be won.

I spent 1.5 years trying to find out the reason why I was not allowed to compete at FISM2006. Did not get any real explanation, instead I became the target of an extreme mud-slinging that left me more or less alienated from the whole Swedish magic scene.
So, yes, I regret that I asked about the reason.


Tom, as Sue-Anne and a number of other Aussie magicians will attest to, I was targeted by a fellow Aussie magician because he didn't get a free rego to a convention I was organising several years ago.

(The only people who go to Aussie conventions free are the overseas guest artists).

Anyway, he was President of the local club and started gossiping about me. When I was nominated to join the club more rumours were spread and I was suddenly the anti-christ of Aussie magic. For some reason he and his colleagues got away with saying anything they wanted to about me (discussing fictional versions of my private life, non-existent restraining orders etc) but as soon as I spoke up to defend myself they used that as "evidence" to show how much of a "troublemaker" I was and all the more reason I shouldn't be in the club.

Yes, you're right, there are some fights you cannot win.

In the end a lot of the committee who wanted me to join quit in protest, only to be replaced (without club voting) by this chaps friends. He even changed the clubs constitution to bar me (and Sue-Anne) from joining. (Ironically, the person in question is also on the Blackpool banned list).

So Tom, in a nutshell, I know how you feel.

If one person is running a club or a convention they can bar who they want, they can slander until the cows come home, and still pretend to be operating in the "best interests of the harmony of the club".

However, I disagree that in THIS case, we should accept that some people are not welcome.

FISM 2012 is not, as Derek Lever has made very clear, a Blackpool Convention, it is a FISM event.

In speaking with Derek he seems a very reasonable man (he's even expressed interest in having Ellis & webster appear at FISM 2012 so he has excellent taste *g*) so I can't see how he would even be considering extending his Blackpool bans to FISM 2012.

I'd be very surprised if he doesn't submit a post in here in a day or two clarifying exactly that.
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Postby Roger M. » 08/23/09 07:38 PM

Just accepting this is truly an unwise approach, FISM isn't some little backwater magic show.

From a world-wide perspective, FISM is as big as it gets. Every magician in the world who wants to go, and can afford to go, MUST be able to attend.......really, think about it.

Just to accept that you're "not welcome" at FISM because some ass-hole who's being a bully says you're not welcome isn't on I'm afraid, and Mr. Eswin and the FISM International folks had best deal with this right now, before it snowballs into something they won't have a chance of getting a handle on............it's almost there now, so sooner than later would probably be a good plan.
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Postby Tom Stone » 08/23/09 08:05 PM

Tim Ellis wrote:For some reason he and his colleagues got away with saying anything they wanted to about me (discussing fictional versions of my private life, non-existent restraining orders etc) but as soon as I spoke up to defend myself they used that as "evidence" to show how much of a "troublemaker" I was

Yep, identical tactics. And just to illustrate the damage - I heard those rumours about you here in Sweden a few years ago, that's how far it spread.
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Postby Tim Ellis » 08/23/09 09:01 PM

Tom Stone wrote:
Tim Ellis wrote:For some reason he and his colleagues got away with saying anything they wanted to about me (discussing fictional versions of my private life, non-existent restraining orders etc) but as soon as I spoke up to defend myself they used that as "evidence" to show how much of a "troublemaker" I was

Yep, identical tactics. And just to illustrate the damage - I heard those rumours about you here in Sweden a few years ago, that's how far it spread.


Then you know the man I'm talking about then.

Thankfully, most people know me and dismissed the comments for what they were, rubbish. However, there will always be those who only hear the rumours and - as you know Tom - when mud is thrown some is bound to stick.

All the more reason that bullying tactics should not be tolerated.
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Postby CraigMitchell » 08/24/09 01:58 AM

The latest reports just received:

"On hearing that Fism 2012 is coming to Blackpool I decided to phone up Arthur Carson of the Blackpool Magic Club with the view to purchasing tickets for Fism. He told me I was still banned for attending Blackpool and an application to attend Fism will have to gobefore the Blackpool Committee which will be meeting in approximately 8 weeks time and they will decide whether I was eligible for a Fism ticket. However, it was express to me
that it would be unlikely that I will be able to get a ticket to attend Fism ... "

and

"i have already been told my a member of bmc that anyone derek has barred wiil not be allocated tickets for fism and i have already been refused a dealer booth and a guy who was working for me was told he would not be able to attend either if you know how i and others can get in let me know"

Perhaps this is all just a horrible misunderstanding and Mr Lever did in no way, shape or form intend to 'ban' anyone from attending FISM 2012 and the wrong information was merely communicated to the relevant parties ?

Alternatively - this was Mr Lever's intent all along and only now that this practice has been exposed will he now be made to ensure that FISM is truly an all-inclusive event.

I look forward to obtaining the definitive answer.
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Postby CraigMitchell » 08/24/09 04:55 AM

Further details on the above:

"Myself any of my staff family and friends ... I understand has also been barred I have written to BMC for further clarification but have been ignored"

Again - these are messages which I have received. I cannot independently confirm the contents thereof ( I can 100% confirm my banning order from Blackpool ) - but I do believe there is sufficient cause for concern to request an official response and clarification regarding admission for FISM 2012 from Mr Lever.
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Postby Ray Eden » 08/24/09 05:11 AM

Evil abounds when good men do nothing! I'll stick with the free-speech supporters, let the nay-Sayers be damned. Keep up the fight, Craig. Dictatorship is not the way to run F.I.S.M.
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Postby Francesca Moffet » 08/24/09 05:26 AM

Well FISM 2012 isn't exactly off to a great start is it?

Banning people for voicing their opinion on the town itself isn't exactly great way to gain favour with people or generate good publicity...if I were a member of BMC I would be rather embarrassed by this.

Banning employees and family members because of association with a certain person is utterly ridiculous not to mention childish!
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Postby Magic Newswire » 08/24/09 06:33 AM

Tim Ellis wrote:I'd be very surprised if he doesn't submit a post in here in a day or two clarifying exactly that.


Last week, I invited Derek to be a guest on the Magic Newswire to promote the upcoming FISM in Blackpool. He has (to date) declined. It is an open invitation and I hope that he reconsiders as I am certain that many would like to hear from him.
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Postby CraigMitchell » 08/24/09 07:08 AM

Mr Lever attempted to have Paul Daniels expelled from the IBM:

"The story is too long, but basically a man called Derek Lever tried to get me kicked out of the IBM for 'exposing' magic secrets by selling tricks "to non magicians'. I was sitting at the back of the theatre where this AGM was being held and they did not know I was there. I stood up and pointed out that we all started with such magic sets, and as the vast majority of the IBM membership were non magicians anyway, making their living by being carpenters, plumbers, accountants, solicitors and so on, every dealer in the world was doing what Derek Lever was accusing me of. The motion was voted out."
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 08/24/09 08:26 AM

What sort of positive intent could be behind such an action?

I'll leave the "vast majority..." comment as its own item for later. For now - what good could come of such an action against the IBM and Paul Daniels?
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Postby Tim Ellis » 08/24/09 09:19 AM

That's very odd. Derek awarded Paul Daniels THE MURRAY AWARD in 1988.
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Postby Q. Kumber » 08/24/09 09:38 AM

I think this goes back to the very early eighties when there was a lot of controversy about the abundance of Paul Daniels magic kits for sale. A few years before the IBM expelled Pat Page for exposure (of magical secrets) in a magazine. The exposure was outside Pat's control - done by the publishers of The Big Book of Magic, and he was later reinstated.

While nothing to do with the IBM or Derek Lever, Paul did break the cardinal rule of selling magic sets to the public. He had the instructions tested by schoolchildren to make sure they could understand and follow them.

This broke the long standing tradition that magic set instructions should be written so that no one could understand them.
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Postby Gord » 08/24/09 09:40 AM

For those of us who don't know, could someone give us a bit of an overview regarding the comments that got Craig banned in the first place?


You don't have to quote exactly, just a quick overview for those of us who feel like that came in at the middle of things.

Thanks.

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Postby CraigMitchell » 08/24/09 10:04 AM

I believe it was this post which Mr Lever demanded that Dodd Vickers remove forthwith from his website:

http://www.linkingpage.com/magicnewsfee ... chell.html
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Postby Magic Newswire » 08/24/09 10:04 AM

Craig wrote two articles that we posted at Magic Newswire when he sent them to us. Here are the links in case you are interested in what Derek asked us to remove from the site.

This was the first which they seem to be ok with:(And by that I mean that Mr. Lever hasn't mentioned it)
http://www.linkingpage.com/magicnewsfee ... chell.html

This is the one that Mr. Lever asked that I removed and for which it is said Craig was banned:
http://www.linkingpage.com/magicnewsfee ... chell.html
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Postby Tim Ellis » 08/24/09 10:34 AM

So was the attempted expulsion BEFORE Derek Lever awarded Paul The Murray Award in 1988?
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Postby naquada » 08/24/09 10:56 AM

its sad that the fism2012.org domain is being used like this...
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Postby Q. Kumber » 08/24/09 12:14 PM

Tim Ellis wrote:So was the attempted expulsion BEFORE Derek Lever awarded Paul The Murray Award in 1988?


I can't give you the exact year but I'm pretty sure it was well before the Murray Award. I know that Paul Daniels Magic sets were available in 1983 and the smaller one trick sets came shortly afterwards.
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Postby Magic Newswire » 08/24/09 02:02 PM

I remember Paul commenting on UK Magic conventions in my interview with him. In addition, when asked about the Blackpool convention for a written interview, his response was:

Paul Daniels: UK conventions were ruined for me by bitchiness and jealousy, which is a real shame because that was where I met so many of my friends. Now I only go to foreign conventions where, to be honest, I am greeted with respect and civility AND I have tons of foreign magician friends.

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Postby Q. Kumber » 08/24/09 04:59 PM

I think you'll find that Paul is referring to British conventions in general, not Blackpool in particular. For a time that was a lot of jealousy over Paul, especially by magicians who felt that it was they who should have been on TV.

I remember one evening at an IBM convention standing around with a group of magicians as Paul answered questions for about 90 minutes. Ali Bongo was doing his nut saying, "He's giving too much away." To those who would listen the information was pure gold.

After Paul left, I heard one magician say to his friend, "Who does he think he is, the big headed git?"

There was also a controversy in ABRA magazine when Paul wrote a letter about magicians attending his show doing card tricks in the foyer of the theatre. It got quite nasty.

I've never known anyone in the magic profession to be so free and generous with practical commercial information than Paul.

Paul's interview is well worth reading and I add this question and answer which sums up what I've been saying:

Laura: And finally, what is the most valuable bit of advice you have received during your career as a magician?
Paul Daniels: From Ken Brooke when I didnt win a magic competition at a convention: Dont change son. Youve got it right for the public, and the silly buggers dont know.


Ken Brooke was right and most of the silly buggers still don't know.
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Postby CraigMitchell » 08/24/09 05:22 PM

Further reports.

Extracts from a letter written by Mr Lever to one of the many people on his banned list:

"We can choose to ban whoever we wish for whatever reason. You ... all staff and business associates of yours are all banned from attending the Convention. We will not be giving any details as to why you are not attending."

Again - if you have been banned or know of anyone who has been banned from Blackpool and are wishing to attend FISM 2012 - please contact me. FISM 2012 offer a great special - book 12 registrations and get 1 free ...
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Postby Master Payne » 08/24/09 05:30 PM

Wow, who'd have thought Blackpool had become such a dangerous place with vigilantes and drougie's marauding about.

Perhaps their poster for this event should reflect this dismal and distressing turn of events

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Postby Tim Ellis » 08/24/09 05:37 PM

Craig, you're in good company. The Rolling Stones were banned for 44 years from Blackpool

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Postby Jim Riser » 08/24/09 05:42 PM

Craig;
It seems to me that if you have been banned because your safety can not be assured, then (by implication) everyone else's safety at the convention(s) in Blackpool is assured. Is the BMC opening themselves up to lawsuits from anyone who might be mugged or merely threatened? This could get very expensive for the BMC. I do hope that they are well insured.
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Postby Magic Newswire » 08/24/09 06:42 PM

Master Payne wrote:Perhaps their poster for this event should reflect this dismal and distressing turn of events

You have to love it when Clockwork Orange enters a discussion of magic clubs. Dan Sperry is starting to win me over his side.
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